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RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/2/2010 2:57:27 AM

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Skimmed over the pointless fuss. Domme, it seems like you require a full police report to make any judgement. May I suggest that the forums, where you likely never get such detailed information, is not quite the place for your lofty information requirements? All that we have is what the OP tells us - if you aren't willing to give it some credit, then there isn't much point in discussing the situation.

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Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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(in reply to DommeMae)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/2/2010 7:58:08 AM

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With the extra day off this weekend, I have some time to respond to this interesting thread.
15 year olds are too young to witness foot kissing and eating off the floor. (that's a period at the end of that.)
My stepdaughter moved back in for a year, at the age of 25. (She worked but needed to save some money for a new house.) All cross dressing and such kink came to a halt. In time, however, she did learn that every day her bed would be made, laundry done, and that, after dinner, it was time for relaxation, while I did the dishes. She didn't question any of it and just accepted it as how things work around this house. (Later, after she moved out, she told my wife that she missed having her clothes washed.) That made me smile.
herpet

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/2/2010 4:03:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Skimmed over the pointless fuss. Domme, it seems like you require a full police report to make any judgement.

May I suggest that the forums, where you likely never get such detailed information, is not quite the place for your lofty information requirements?
All that we have is what the OP tells us - if you aren't willing to give it some credit, then there isn't much point in discussing the situation.

Police Report? Aw, come on with me. That's not true at all. I can see probabilities ... if I have enough relevant information. I'm open to whatever the facts can be.

Loffty? Woman, why you treat me so bad?

The OP's credibility has nothing to do with anything in my book. I need more facts from him, that's all. I'm willing to take his comments at face value.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/2/2010 4:18:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

The OP's credibility has nothing to do with anything in my book. I need more facts from him, that's all. I'm willing to take his comments at face value.

Doesn't seem like it to me since you don't take his word that the dish was a slave dish, that the kids didn't do any chores and that they heard his punishments.

*shrugs* That's what he said. While I understand wanting further information, I wonder if you would doubt a post by a mistress in the same fashion.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DommeMae)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/2/2010 4:28:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

The OP's credibility has nothing to do with anything in my book. I need more facts from him, that's all. I'm willing to take his comments at face value.

Doesn't seem like it to me since you don't take his word that the dish was a slave dish, that the kids didn't do any chores and that they heard his punishments.

*shrugs* That's what he said. While I understand wanting further information, I wonder if you would doubt a post by a mistress in the same fashion.

Everything's he's written could be all true or not true. I'm open to possibilities. It could of been a slave dish between the two adults only, and then referred to as something else in front of others. I'm not disputing that. Are you?

Far as his punishments, he hasn't said they heard brutal punishment or mild or any punishment at all. I don't know.

Did he say discipline? Yes, but what kind I wonder.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/2/2010 5:44:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae
Everything's he's written could be all true or not true. I'm open to possibilities. It could of been a slave dish between the two adults only, and then referred to as something else in front of others. I'm not disputing that. Are you?

He refered it as a slave dish. By this I infer it was something that was different enough to be noticed otherwise it wouldn't be worth mentioning. If he corrects this assumption, I'll alter my opinion. Until he does so, I'm going to trust that (as he was concerned with the behavior) it is something worth mentioning.

Just because it could be something, doesn't mean it's likely to be. You could have been born a guy whose had a sex change since you haven't told me otherwise.

quote:

Far as his punishments, he hasn't said they heard brutal punishment or mild or any punishment at all. I don't know.

Actually he did say they witnessed his punishment. I refer you to the OP itself:

quote:

They hear her discipline me but also see how it is for the male to make life easier for a Woman.

As for what they heard, I don't know. But clearly it was something that could be heard, be it a physical blow or a lecture. Either way I regard as unacceptable for children to hear regardless of if it was brutal or not. I don't think it's good for kids to hear their vanilla folks fighting, I don't see why it's any better to hear that.

quote:

Did he say discipline? Yes, but what kind I wonder.

You can wonder all you like. Regardless, that sort of thing is generally frowned upon to do in front of other kinky adults who are not consenting to be involved by seeing or hearing, much less children. I'm still going to be curious how you will respond to a similiar post by a female dominant posting about a submissive.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/2/2010 5:47:35 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DommeMae)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 7:21:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

He refered it as a slave dish. By this I infer it was something that was different enough to be noticed otherwise it wouldn't be worth mentioning. If he corrects this assumption, I'll alter my opinion. Until he does so, I'm going to trust that (as he was concerned with the behavior) it is something worth mentioning.

Whatever. Whether it was worth mentioning or not isn't the issue. The issue is did the kids know it was a slave dish? If yes, that's not good. But the fact still remains we don't know what the kids knew it by. And like I've said a million times here in this thread, we need more information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Just because it could be something, doesn't mean it's likely to be. You could have been born a guy whose had a sex change since you haven't told me otherwise.

Right, so just because he called it a slave dish, that doesn't mean it could of been called that in front of the kids.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Actually he did say they witnessed his punishment. I refer you to the OP itself:

They hear her discipline me but also see how it is for the male to make life easier for a Woman.

As for what they heard, I don't know.

I've said this exact thing roughly 19 times. Duh.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
But clearly it was something that could be heard, be it a physical blow or a lecture.

Duh. I've been saying all along the discipline could of been a lecture. You're not saying anything I haven't already said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Either way I regard as unacceptable for children to hear regardless of if it was brutal or not. I don't think it's good for kids to hear their vanilla folks fighting, I don't see why it's any better to hear that.

Says the woman into BDSM. Too funny.

By the way, I never said hearing discipline was any better than any other type. But I don't think scolding type discipline is going to make the kids heads explode.

Just out of curiosity is seeing vanilla mommy and vanilla daddy fight any worse than seeing kinky mommy hop into bed with two kinky men every night?

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

You can wonder all you like.

Thanks for your permission, mommy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Regardless, that sort of thing is generally frowned upon to do in front of other kinky adults who are not consenting to be involved by seeing or hearing, much less children.

Can't you read what the OP said in his opening statement? He said they heard no kink. What? You're not going to believe what the OP said? OMFG.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I'm still going to be curious how you will respond to a similiar post by a female dominant posting about a submissive.

You're not wondering jack. You already have your mind made up, who are you kidding.

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 7:59:31 AM

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 10:51:04 AM

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 11:13:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I would say that the majority of those "fetish folks" who are into "extreme" play are responsible enough to not do it in front of or in earshot of the children.

Sure, you may say that, but this is a completely preposterous assumption without accurate social surveying. You go on to defeat your own point here by saying children figure stuff out anyway in most cases.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Many people, regardless of whether they are kinky or not tend to be of the belief that children are much less aware of what is going on around them than the children actually are. Kind of like the parents who are fighting for years but not getting divorced saying "but we never argue in front of the children" or "the children have no idea what is going on." Only in very rare cases do the children not know what is going on...

So based on this reasoning, considering your gross speculations above and in the interest of reasonable doubt, most BDSM practitioners who have children are probably going to have children who know what they are doing, regardless. Now aint that a bitch? It puts most with children who practice BDSM in an interesting light, huh? Looks like your self-righteous diatribes needs to go way past this thread and at most of us who have kids.

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 11:30:27 AM

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Will this argument ever be resolved? I think not.

Actually SimplyIsaac... her statement on the children knowing more than we give them credit for are correct according to a lot of litature on the topic and those of us who have studied this in the course of our life work know it. I won't take the time to prove my claim here... but feel free to do so. If you feel that she or I must prove our statements... I counter that with... prove they are not true... then make your accusations or whatever it is you are doing.

As for the other... I would agree that most who are posting on these boards that are into extreme play are responsible enough not to expose their children to it... and one way of gauging that... is to read this friggin thread again and do some searching. Most have agreed... it isn't right.

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 12:30:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
Actually SimplyIsaac... her statement on the children knowing more than we give them credit for are correct according to a lot of litature on the topic and those of us who have studied this in the course of our life work know it.

Is there an argument over that? The point is if you really want to get down to things like "reasonable doubt", a whole lot more people than the two mentioned in this thread need a visit by the thought police.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
If you feel that she or I must prove our statements... I counter that with... prove they are not true.

Prove what?

quote:

ORIGINAL: LockitAs for the other... I would agree that most who are posting on these boards that are into extreme play are responsible enough not to expose their children to it... and one way of gauging that... is to read this friggin thread again and do some searching. Most have agreed... it isn't right.

So you are using participation in this thread as your sampling for all those in the bdsm community? What about those who read but say nothing? What about those who don't visit these threads at all? I find your leanings toward admitted assumption and zeal of persecution nonetheless pretty disturbing, intellectually.

(in reply to Lockit)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 12:40:02 PM

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Oh, stop being a plonker, Isaac.

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(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 1:26:27 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

I'm generally of the opinion that if you aren't teaching your children how to be independent and stand on their own two feet without assistance from anyone, you're doing it wrong. Yeah, that's right, I -- a childless person -- am telling y'all how to raise your kids. Anyone seriously want to argue the point?

Having actually -raised- four children (two of each gender) happily to adulthood, I will be glad to debate the point with you.

I have one offspring who was, and is, a very dependent person. Xhe's never really been interested in being independent or striking out on hir own. Shortly after reaching maturity, xhe chose a companion and settled down. Hir companion handles most of the decisions, all of the money, and has even set the schedule for my offspring's completion of hir education, and, to me, knowing that offspring's nature, I believe that this is the -absolute- best thing for hir. Some of our family members disagree, of course, citing book-and-line about how -bad- it is for a youngster to be "dependent" on anyone... but I don't see it that way. I think that there are people who thrive on being dependent, and people who thrive on independence, and a whole lot of people for whom it is situational.

As an experienced parent, I think that what should be taught is how to think for oneself (which, btw, is NOT the same as "standing on one's own feet"). I think that children should be taught to love who they are, and to accept and be comfortable with the essences of their own natures -- and that they should be guided by the parents into feeling comfortable about selecting situations that are amenable to allowing them to be themselves.

Now, if anything happens with this child's companion where xhe is no longer healthy in that situation, xhe knows that xhe can come home and that I understand hir nature -- that I will guide hir enough to find a place where xhe's happy, and help hir to get hir feet under hir if everything falls apart. This provides hir with a safety net to allow hir to make the choices that feel right for hir in choosing the best things to suit hir nature. I am not going to try to turn a rabbit into a lion or bull -- I am going to cherish my rabbit for exactly what xhe is, and help hir find a place in the world that is well suited to rabbits... and for my lions and bulls (of which I have three), I will certainly encourage them to approach the world in the manner best suited to them. It may be scary or seem aggressive to others, but I cherish their natures as well, and while I may give them tips on fitting into society in healthy, productive ways, I would never consider forcing them to dumb themselves down or force themselves into a box just because it makes other people more comfortable.

YMMV
Calla

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 1:28:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

I would say that the majority of those "fetish folks" who are into "extreme" play are responsible enough to not do it in front of or in earshot of the children.

Sure, you may say that, but this is a completely preposterous assumption without accurate social surveying. You go on to defeat your own point here by saying children figure stuff out anyway in most cases.

While I vowed to not post anymore, I really only meant that I wouldn't post anymore to DommeMae idiocy. Your idiocy is something completely new.

Preposterous to think that those into extreme and edge play aren't doing it in front of the kids? So I guess you are saying that the opposite is true...that most ARE doing it in front of them. Another parent of the year nomination. Good to know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Many people, regardless of whether they are kinky or not tend to be of the belief that children are much less aware of what is going on around them than the children actually are. Kind of like the parents who are fighting for years but not getting divorced saying "but we never argue in front of the children" or "the children have no idea what is going on." Only in very rare cases do the children not know what is going on...

So based on this reasoning, considering your gross speculations above and in the interest of reasonable doubt, most BDSM practitioners who have children are probably going to have children who know what they are doing, regardless. Now aint that a bitch? It puts most with children who practice BDSM in an interesting light, huh? Looks like your self-righteous diatribes needs to go way past this thread and at most of us who have kids.

"Reasonable doubt?" Do you even know the meaning of that phrase? Gross speculation? I guess you don't ever read a book or professional article or hell, even talk to any kids of divorced parents. Yep, the majority of them knew about the tensions in the house. Yep, the majority of them knew Daddy was beating the hell out of mommy.

I'm in no way "self-righteous" although people like you and DommeMae are so blinded by your own prejudices that you try to pass off as being open minded, you aren't likely to figure it out.

Yes, kids know when the adults in their life are fighting. They eventually figure out that mommy and daddy are having sex. As time goes on and they learn what certain phrases and words mean, they will figure out the nature of relationships.

If you are so intent on arguing or so ignorant that you want to pull things out of context to try to make your point, go argue with DommeMae, the two of you are more closely related in the lack of common sense and parading your ignorance as intelligence.

Honestly, I just can't be bothered with it anymore. In the words of Forrest Gump "Stupid is as stupid does." You both have proven that statement beyond all reasonable doubt.

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 1:29:27 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DommeMae

Right, so just because he called it a slave dish, that doesn't mean it could of been called that in front of the kids.

It could have been called something else. That he mentioned suggests that it wasn't. As I stated before, if I am corrected in my opinion, then I will change my stance on the matter.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

Either way I regard as unacceptable for children to hear regardless of if it was brutal or not. I don't think it's good for kids to hear their vanilla folks fighting, I don't see why it's any better to hear that.

Says the woman into BDSM. Too funny.

You'll have to tell me how being into BDSM makes this funny. I refuse to engage in BDSM in front of children and I don't approve of fighting in front of children either.

quote:

By the way, I never said hearing discipline was any better than any other type. But I don't think scolding type discipline is going to make the kids heads explode.

Just out of curiosity is seeing vanilla mommy and vanilla daddy fight any worse than seeing kinky mommy hop into bed with two kinky men every night?

Ahh the respect for your fellow posters just oozes from you. If you are referencing that I'm poly, kinky Mommy doesn't just hop into bed with people in our house. I never said it would make the children's head explode. I said I don't think it's kosher for the kids to hear the scolding, depending on what was said. You are willing to give this woman the benefit of the doubt no matter what. I'm not. Given that the children were taught that men are there to make their lives better, I doubt the scolding was subtle.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
Regardless, that sort of thing is generally frowned upon to do in front of other kinky adults who are not consenting to be involved by seeing or hearing, much less children.

Can't you read what the OP said in his opening statement? He said they heard no kink. What? You're not going to believe what the OP said? OMFG.

I didn't say they were exposed to sexual kink. I said that other kinksters tend to not enjoy being part of punishments or scoldings without their consent, so when it's rude to involve other kinksters I find it obvious that involving children by allowing them to hear it isn't exactly on the up and up either. There is more to power dynamics than kink, as you well know.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub
I'm still going to be curious how you will respond to a similiar post by a female dominant posting about a submissive.

You're not wondering jack. You already have your mind made up, who are you kidding.

Actually I haven't. I have a suscipion and if forced to bet, I know where I would put my money. However, you don't know me as you are new to the boards. In time you might learn that when I say I wonder, I mean I wonder and when I have made up my mind, I say that very clearly.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 1/3/2010 1:30:04 PM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to DommeMae)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 1:37:46 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

As for what they heard, I don't know. But clearly it was something that could be heard, be it a physical blow or a lecture. Either way I regard as unacceptable for children to hear regardless of if it was brutal or not. I don't think it's good for kids to hear their vanilla folks fighting, I don't see why it's any better to hear that.

I have often said that I don't keep a "BDSM" household, but that my focus is more along the lines of a Victorian-style home. Along those lines, and in-line with the OP's commentary, I can tell you that I will correct or discipline a household servant in front of minors in the household, and will even explain to them -why- such correction is being made. These corrections are -never- of a sexual nature, but are related to the running of the household. It seems appropriate, to me, as it would to any lady running a Victoriana/Steampunk household, that the offspring should see how to manage servants and how to run the home. I am pretty certain, from my own experiences as a nanny in such households, that parents in upper-class households that are -vanilla- and have servants don't hesitate to correct the servants in front of the children, and even encourage the children to do the same. The one thing that I do -not- agree with is having offspring not have chores or household duties. It is my philosophy that, if one is going to be part of a household, then one has a responsibility to that household's upkeep... and so, for me, the offspring would have to have their own sets of chores that are not -ever- done by the servants (and which engender their own chastisement when they are not properly attended to).

In the same vein, when we were in our full-sized quarters, our servants did not dine with the family. They had their own utensils, and dined in the Kitchen or Servants' Hall. Everyone, including the youngsters, knew that the servants dined in their own space with their own utensils and even their own food that wasn't the same as what was served in the main hall.

Our offspring also saw our servants do things like bow or curtsy, kneel, and bow obeisance.

I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. As long as the overtly sexual aspects of the relationship are kept private, I don't see where the rest is any more inappropriate than teaching one's children how to manage an upper-class household or teaching them your ideas of philosophy or religion.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 1/3/2010 1:40:23 PM >

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(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 1:41:46 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. As long as the overtly sexual aspects of the relationship are kept private, I don't see where the rest is any more inappropriate than teaching one's children how to manage an upper-class household or teaching them your ideas of philosophy or religion.

The fuss, for me, is:

quote:

They hear her discipline me but also see how it is for the male to make life easier for a Woman. All chores are non existant to them.

Because of this I simply doubt that the that disciplining was as above the board as I'm quite positive yours was Calla.

If the OP comes back and tells me I'm wrong, than I'll gracefully eat my words but based on what I have, I just don't think it's likely.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 1:43:35 PM

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That and beating him with a baseball bat... even a small one.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: Is it right for daughters - 1/3/2010 1:45:31 PM

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I forgot about that. Valyraen did that to me last night with a padded kids bat. Even those fuckers hurt. So not my favorite thing... though it was nice to be beaten again.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to Lockit)

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