quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I've found very few people who call themselves submissive are really submissive in any other way than through sexual fantasy and in this field they explicitly state what they expect and what their boundaries are which isn't really submissive. It basically comes down in reality to screening a so called Dom for their pleasure and I've never come across a submissive who in reality would give up a career for serving a Dom though I've often heard people saying they would. In the world of kink there are very few genuine kinksters and a lot of fantasists. So many people talk the talk but very few walk the walk.

Because of the world I move in I mix constantly with career women who see sexual submission as an apparent antidote to their careers which require them to be dominant. They actually call themselves submissive which to me it isn't and if a man indulges them he is merely acting out a role of being Dominant while really just giving sexual service.

My point. Giving up a career is a symbolic as well as a concrete act.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub

In the short term, I have financial obligations that require me to continue working. In the long term, I would be willing to pause or give up a career for the right woman, however, with caveats.

I don't think I could do nothing but stay at home and do menial chores. I have an advanced degree, am working toward another, and I require a great deal of intellectual stimulation. I also feel the need to do some good for the world, and I'm not talking about volunteer work that just about anybody could do, but using my intellectual and professional skills to help identify and solve problems. I'd feel like a traitor to the human race to have such abilities and not attempt to use them in some way for the greater good.

If those issues could be resolved, I'd be willing to give up a career, relocate, you name it.

There's a misconception that staying at home means just menial chores.  It's funny, that original post was a year and a half ago.  My husband was and still is a 'stay at home husband' and I haven't change my view points on it.  His time is extremely full with the activities related to running the household and keeping things smooth, and it's not just about chores - it's everything from the mail to the social calendar to shopping and home improvements, taking care of animals and cars, and also supporting me from an administrative standpoint in my career. I'm a workaholic so I need that kind of support system - he is basically an executive assistant at the same time. He manages my travel schedule, upgrades my gadgets, screens my calls, and does research and some writing for me. 

The biggest thing, though, is that by having one person manage the household domestic duties full time (without working), you free up your already limited quality time.  Our weekends are now our weekends -- not us running around catching up on chores as a couple.  We can have a sit down dinner every night, one that he prepared started in the afternoon, if we want.  The quality time we spend together is so much better.  That's important to be, because I have an unpredictable and unforgiving sex/kink drive, and when I work hard, I want to play hard - even if that means 48 hours he will be incapacitated.  Imagine if the chores were too piled up to free up that time?  I wouldn't be a happy camper.

He volunteers part time as his schedule allows.  He keeps himself very educated and up to speed as it relates to his background and career, so he's not slacking in his skills.  Recently he started moving a hobby of his to part time work (for very little money, he just wants the experience) and even though it's only 12 hours a week, it put a visible ripple in our day-to-day life and I nearly nixed it.  He enjoys it, though, so we made some adjustments, but we both know he won't be working part time permanently, because I have a "busy season" in my career and he'll have to go back to being available 24/7.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub


On the other hand, "...everything from the mail to the social calendar to shopping and home improvements, taking care of animals and cars, and also supporting me from an administrative standpoint in my career" qualifies as menial to me. So does "basically an executive assistant ... manages my travel schedule, ... screens my calls ...". I'm not denigrating these activities, or saying that they are easy or unimportant, but only saying that they would not be intellectually stimulating to me, and seem menial to me. If my life was filled with nothing but that, I'd be very bored.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub


On the other hand, "...everything from the mail to the social calendar to shopping and home improvements, taking care of animals and cars, and also supporting me from an administrative standpoint in my career" qualifies as menial to me. So does "basically an executive assistant ... manages my travel schedule, ... screens my calls ...". I'm not denigrating these activities, or saying that they are easy or unimportant, but only saying that they would not be intellectually stimulating to me, and seem menial to me. If my life was filled with nothing but that, I'd be very bored.

It's boring because you can't imagine taking advantage of it.  My husband reads 2 - 3 books a week on topics ranging from philosophy to history, religion or politics; he exercises more than most men his age because he has a flexible schedule and can mountain bike, road bike or play hockey; he volunteers between 2 - 12 hours a week for a charitable organization we both support.   If you had a completely open schedule and one where you had the freedom to choose the enrichment that fulfills you, wouldn't you take advantage of that?  Eventually he may go back to college and get an additional degree.  These are options that are open to him because he isn't chained to a desk at a corporation.  Intellectual stimulation and growth can be found anywhere you choose to look, if you make an effort.  The only thing he cannot attain is social acceptance from peers in a group/work setting that you get from climbing a corporate ladder or playing politics in a job.  I have plenty of that and don't think it provides any kind of unique perspective or experience.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: hardbodysub


On the other hand, "...everything from the mail to the social calendar to shopping and home improvements, taking care of animals and cars, and also supporting me from an administrative standpoint in my career" qualifies as menial to me. So does "basically an executive assistant ... manages my travel schedule, ... screens my calls ...". I'm not denigrating these activities, or saying that they are easy or unimportant, but only saying that they would not be intellectually stimulating to me, and seem menial to me. If my life was filled with nothing but that, I'd be very bored.

It's boring because you can't imagine taking advantage of it.  My husband reads 2 - 3 books a week on topics ranging from philosophy to history, religion or politics; he exercises more than most men his age because he has a flexible schedule and can mountain bike, road bike or play hockey; he volunteers between 2 - 12 hours a week for a charitable organization we both support.   If you had a completely open schedule and one where you had the freedom to choose the enrichment that fulfills you, wouldn't you take advantage of that?  Eventually he may go back to college and get an additional degree.  These are options that are open to him because he isn't chained to a desk at a corporation.  Intellectual stimulation and growth can be found anywhere you choose to look, if you make an effort.  The only thing he cannot attain is social acceptance from peers in a group/work setting that you get from climbing a corporate ladder or playing politics in a job.  I have plenty of that and don't think it provides any kind of unique perspective or experience.

Akasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha



This is aimed toward male subs (as they are often seen as the breadwinners) but I'm interested to hear what female subs say as well.

Are you willing to give up (or pause) your career in order to be in a service position full time? If so, are you worried about your earning potential should you ever have to return to work? Do you worry about not being able to accumulate skills in your field?

Do you worry about feeling any lack of self worth if your duties are strictly related to homemaking, housecleaning, or taking care of errands (again -- aimed toward men: Do you feel emasculated when your male friends have jobs/careers and you do not?How do you address that)?

For sub men that have a career/job right now, would you be willing to give it up -- for good -- in order to be a stay at home submissive for the long term? Would you be bored?

Akasha

quote:

Would you give up your career for submission?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha

Are you willing to give up (or pause) your career in order to be in a service position full time?

The last thing 99 out of 100 women want is a man who serves but doesn't earn. In the FEMDOM universe I've witnessed here, the sub would be sent to work, his money banked in the Domme's account, and once home he'd be put into domestic service. I will quote Sarah Miller from THE BITCH IN THE HOUSE here:

"There are few things that make a man less attractive to women than financial instability. We can deal with men in therapy, we can deal with men crying, but I don’t think gender equality will ever reach the point where we can deal with men broke. I realize that they don’t want us to be broke, either, but when it comes to money, their desire, their requirements, are just not on the same scale as ours. Women might lose credibility as people when we are struggling financially, but it doesn’t interfere with our identity as women. It does not make us less sexually attractive. When the situation is reversed – when the man is the one struggling – this in not the case. One of the many lessons I learned in my relationship with Mike is that I will never, ever go out with a man who isn't naturally adept at making a decent living. I don’t care if I sound chauvinistic and retro --- I might even think that of myself from time to time. But I will never change the way I feel about this."

quote:

If so, are you worried about your earning potential should you ever have to return to work? Do you worry about not being able to accumulate skills in your field?

Do you worry about feeling any lack of self worth if your duties are strictly related to homemaking, housecleaning, or taking care of errands (again -- aimed toward men: Do you feel emasculated when your male friends have jobs/careers and you do not?How do you address that)?

This question is ludicrous, because it assumes any man would actually face this situation. Women who can carry a man rarely elect to do so b/c they view such a dynamic as "leeching" and / or "mooching." Usually high earning women have an even higher income cut for the man they might choose to date than the avg woman. I would imagine this even more true of a high earning dominant woman.

quote:

For sub men that have a career/job right now, would you be willing to give it up -- for good -- in order to be a stay at home submissive for the long term? Would you be bored?

IBID

And furthermore (here we go flame me, Prinny makes it personal again)...I have lectured in a turtle neck sweater to hide the bite marks, stood on my feet when the bites and bruises along my legs hardly enabled me to do so, written with a broken wrist and yes enjoyed the after burn and the drop whilst working. It would never have occurred to me that I was not 24/7 just because I was highly successful as an intellectual and breadwinner. Indeed the relationship dynamic demanded it.
Each dynamic is different but for me once a Dominant gets over his/her insecurities about me being dynamite the better the power exchange when they light my fuse.
ed. to say: call it post modernist feminist submisson or radical submission if you need to give a label. How can I be a submnissive without a Dominant cracking his whip? Both literal and metaphorical. I have always assumed I  would be put out to work in order to support the household. That is what I have always done and always thought of as service.

quote:

ORIGINAL: julietsierra

This is a bit tongue in cheek, but not really.

I was once offered this wonderful opportunity. I responded with:

"I'd love to take you up on your offer. To do this means I'm going to need insurance, both medical and life in my name, premiums paid and a legally binding contract saying that you'll continue to do so with no claim on any assets that I might bequeathe to my children in the event of my death. The medical insurance will have to be a traditional plan, not those cheesy cost more than they cover ones.

I'll need a retirement account with the amount deposited on a monthly basis to be the equivalent to the amount that my employer currently contributes plus the amount that I deposit as well.

I'll need a new car that won't fall apart and a contractually guaranteed plan of repairs being taken care of - at least to the time of your death.

The vacations I currently pay for will be your responsibility. My children's education will be your responsibility - to the same degree that I would otherwise spend if I were still employed.

I will need my name on the deed to your home, with all other owners' names and subsequent beneficiaries omitted - except yours of course. I know you understand this need of mine because you surely won't want me to be left homeless should anything happen to you.

And since we all know how relationships seem to falter so soon these days, I'm going to need bi-weekly deposits to an account in my name equal to my net pay, because again, if anything happens to us, I'm not going to be left penniless for the privilege of being your submissive/slave for as long as you see fit. I, of course would agree to that but I will also need to be assured of not being an old woman with nowhere to go, no money to get there and no work experience to speak of trying to make ends meet or living in a box somewhere."

For some reason, the person who was suggesting this arrangement to me declined to pursue things any further. Ah well, you win some, you lose some.

You see, I was in a marriage for 18 years - much of that time, I didn't work outside of the home because we had a child who was disabled and every time I'd go back to work, she'd get sick, have to be hospitalized and I'd eventually have to quit working or be fired for not being dependable enough to be there.

I've been divorced now for 10 years and I still look back and see that time as the singularly most important work I've ever done. I'd do it again in a heartbeat...

except for one thing

I'm not in my late 20s and 30s anymore. I've learned what it means to be on your own - both the good and bad points. These days, I'm concerned more with what's going to happen to me once I reach retirement age than I am in the raising of small children. AND I've gone through a divorce, so my experience is nothing lasts forever - even if I think it might.

So...

Unless someone offers some guarantees as to how I'll be taken cared for - yes, monetarily - if he goes away, either through us separating or him passing away, and puts those guarantees in writing...

There's absolutely no way I'm no longer working.

If my first responsibility is to keep myself safe and healthy, then that means physically and mentally as well as every other way as well. This means I'm never going to run the risk of not having a roof over my head, be able to care for my disabled daughter, put food on the table on my own, and some day, retiring rather than working till I drop.

I love my job. I do. But I have also loved being at home and taking care of the people in my life much more. I love to fantasize about having that opportunity once again, but that's all it is - a fantasy.

Unless I win the lotto - and that's an even bigger fantasy.

juliet