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RE: training - 12/22/2009 8:53:55 PM

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Joined: 2/14/2007
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Well, since Kitten's sleeping, I figure I'll pop my head in and see if I can't clear it up, or at least answer some questions.

Getting together with Aqua was a real eye-opener for me. Not only was I all of a sudden dating a girl whose sex drive could leave mine in the dust, my eyes started opening to the fact that there was a world of other stuff out there that I'd never really thought about before - that being BDSM. Aqua already had some experience as a submissive, but I was coming into things from an almost totally vanilla background. So, yes, I was a newbie into the world of WIITWD and was doing a good deal of self-exploration as a result. I wouldn't say that Aqua "trained" me to be a dom so much as that she gave me an environment in which I felt safe and comfortable (in as much as one can be while one's paradigms are so radically shifting) coming to grips with the fact that I like pain. She sure as hell didn't train me to be a sadist - if she had, I think she would have stopped before I'd gotten to where I am.

Sure, I had to learn the technicals - swinging a flogger, figuring out rope restraints, and the like - but there wasn't ever a time in that period when my motives in developing were based on anything but that I liked who I was becoming. It wasn't that I was uninterested, initially, so much as that I'd never really had any exposure - once I got that exposure, through Aqua, the rest progressed pretty naturally.

_____________________________

CM's Resident Fuzzy Kitteh

There is no creature more loving than a hungry cat.

Valyraen in ValyraenandAqua

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: training - 12/22/2009 10:53:25 PM

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Valyraen

Well, since Kitten's sleeping, I figure I'll pop my head in and see if I can't clear it up, or at least answer some questions.

Getting together with Aqua was a real eye-opener for me. Not only was I all of a sudden dating a girl whose sex drive could leave mine in the dust, my eyes started opening to the fact that there was a world of other stuff out there that I'd never really thought about before - that being BDSM. Aqua already had some experience as a submissive, but I was coming into things from an almost totally vanilla background. So, yes, I was a newbie into the world of WIITWD and was doing a good deal of self-exploration as a result. I wouldn't say that Aqua "trained" me to be a dom so much as that she gave me an environment in which I felt safe and comfortable (in as much as one can be while one's paradigms are so radically shifting) coming to grips with the fact that I like pain. She sure as hell didn't train me to be a sadist - if she had, I think she would have stopped before I'd gotten to where I am.

Sure, I had to learn the technicals - swinging a flogger, figuring out rope restraints, and the like - but there wasn't ever a time in that period when my motives in developing were based on anything but that I liked who I was becoming. It wasn't that I was uninterested, initially, so much as that I'd never really had any exposure - once I got that exposure, through Aqua, the rest progressed pretty naturally.

And again that is why I dislike the term "training." Even on the sub side, wouldn't the environment you just described promote the best result? Much of the "training" that occurs is because of the exposure that is given by the other person.

I don't think anyone can be trained to be a sadist. Kind of like being a sub/slave/dom/master or whatever. It's kinda something you already are (even though you didn't realize it until then).

I am curious about one thing though. I mentioned that one of the reasons you wanted to become "adept" at the various activities was also because of the depth of your feelings for her. Your post almost disregards that. Do you think you would have explored those areas of your life if not for her?

(in reply to Valyraen)

RE: training - 12/22/2009 11:10:55 PM

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Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

can we come up with a different concept than train/training?

teach/coach/assist/

or just simply communicate ones preferences to another.

I would like to add guide, study and practice

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 5:17:43 AM

Posts: 746
Joined: 2/14/2007
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In all honesty... I don't know. As I said before, I'd had almost no exposure to kink before getting together with Aqua, and I'm not really the sort of person to just randomly start looking into things I've got no experience with. So she's quite literally the reason that I've gotten into the lifestyle, and while I could head-trip all day on whether something could have hypothetically exposed me and sparked my interest had Kitten and I not gotten together, it would just be mental masturbation.

Would I have explored these areas of my life if she weren't so actively into this when we'd first gotten together? Probably not... again, see above about randomly researching things.

As for my motivations in wanting to learn the technical aspects of being a dom... her pleasure WAS involved, if indirectly. She enjoyed what I was doing to her, and I enjoyed doing it, once I was able to admit to myself that I enjoy inflicting pain. And, since I can only be serious for ten minutes at a stretch and my timer's up, I had some very positive reinforcement that bein' sadistic to her was okay - in the form of a sex life that went through a dozen condoms a week. Call me dick-motivated if you wish, but it's awful hard to argue with results like that

_____________________________

CM's Resident Fuzzy Kitteh

There is no creature more loving than a hungry cat.

Valyraen in ValyraenandAqua

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 5:36:55 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Justme696

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

can we come up with a different concept than train/training?

teach/coach/assist/

or just simply communicate ones preferences to another.

I would like to add guide, study and practice

i guess my problem with the words or other commonly used words is not that they aren't appropriate but rather their over and misuse

they seem to be over/misused by women all cought up in romantic notions of what i think this is all about

the over romantization of this sorta makes me gag

(in reply to Justme696)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 5:42:20 AM

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

can we come up with a different concept than train/training?

To what purpose? If it's to let a woman know what I want, training and communication are the ways to go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

what real skill does a grown woman today need to be trained to do?

Take my needs. Subtract from that her existing skill set. The result is what she needs training for.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to osf)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 6:12:28 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

can we come up with a different concept than train/training?

To what purpose? If it's to let a woman know what I want, training and communication are the ways to go.

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

what real skill does a grown woman today need to be trained to do?

Take my needs. Subtract from that her existing skill set. The result is what she needs training for.

in a basic sexual sense aren't most men equipt same

it's basically variations on a theme

< Message edited by osf -- 12/23/2009 6:13:07 AM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 6:46:28 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Now correct me if I'm wrong, but no one believes she was "topping from the bottom," there is no question about who is in what role in their relationship.

Just as an aside, the sub training/teaching the dom has been mentioned in some threads in Ask a Sub/Slave and there are plenty who feel that they couldn't do it because it would be topping from the bottom. Obviously, we don't agree.

quote:

However there was something that she desired from it, and through discussion of her desire, and his desire to make her happy, he LEARNED that whatever pain sensations she wanted weren't "bad."

So someone please tell me how this is any different than being the other way around?

I don't think it is but I guess that goes without saying!

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
i don't understand how pain can be enjoyed if the dominant isn't thoroughly enjoying himself

I used to think I hated spicy food. Val made me try it against my will. Now I like things hotter than he does. He tried something for me because he loves me and wants me to be happy as well wanting to control me. Turns out he liked it as much as I thought he would. How do I know he would? Cause I'm freakin' awesome...

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
I am curious about one thing though. I mentioned that one of the reasons you wanted to become "adept" at the various activities was also because of the depth of your feelings for her. Your post almost disregards that. Do you think you would have explored those areas of your life if not for her?

I honestly think that Valyraen wouldn't have tried this sort of thing without a partner in his life who was an influencing factor, simply because (as he said) he's not the sort of person to randomly try things. Despite my adversion to food I think I dislike, I am. So I tend to be the one who goes "Let's give this shot, we won't know till we try!".

Now he explores more on his own, the how and when he controls me and excerising his sadism where I definately don't want him to. Like over my cookies damn it...

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:14:10 AM

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

in a basic sexual sense aren't most men equipt same

it's basically variations on a theme

Yep, except I'm bigger than most.

But to my mind, "training" involves relatively little sexual stuff and more things like service.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to osf)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:22:44 AM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i guess my problem with the words or other commonly used words is not that they aren't appropriate but rather their over and misuse

they seem to be over/misused by women all cought up in romantic notions of what i think this is all about

the over romantization of this sorta makes me gag

But here is the rub... make a new word and suddenly the fad is in and everyone is going to be using it and once again the words will be the same as all the other commonly used words!

I really couldn't care less on how others use the word in there relationships or aspiring to be in relationships. Often times... I see that there mis-use is going to sooner or later cause issues.

In my own dynamic.. the word training is just not something that is used. To me the word just doesn't seem to apply. In fact... I can't say that I elevate or focus on any specific word in the effort to teach/learn things within our dynamic.

I actually find it rather interesting and sometimes even amusing that some people put so much focus on these apparent "magical" words.... Just say the word and it will come to pass! I wonder at times what is the motivation for so many to focus on these magical words.

It seems to me that many see these words when applied will create some emotional bonding experience between the individuals in the relationship and make the relationship stronger. as result. It has been my experience that is not so much actions but the motivations between individuals that create the emotional bonding. Sure there is some surface connections established.. but they are like veneer and alittle scratch will expose the lack of substance underneath.

I have found that my interest to know my girls in all aspects and their desire to know me that the by-product is that there is an exchange of knowledge that leads to learning/teaching that some would consider as training.

It just seems to me that some are putting the cart ahead of the horse and become surprized when the emotional bonding doesn't endure with all that training!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to osf)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:24:51 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

But to my mind, "training" involves relatively little sexual stuff and more things like service.

like i said it's romanticization that brings on my gag reflex

(in reply to DarkSteven)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:26:40 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

quote:

But to my mind, "training" involves relatively little sexual stuff and more things like service.

like i said it's romanticization that brings on my gag reflex

Nothing about training strikes me as romanticization unless we are talking about training the sub/slave to be unable to function without the top/dom. I require training in new skills as I do not magically acquire them. Expecting me to do so simply because I am owned by Val would be romanticization. Teaching and training me is entirely practical and logical.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/23/2009 7:27:28 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to osf)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:26:48 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i guess my problem with the words or other commonly used words is not that they aren't appropriate but rather their over and misuse

they seem to be over/misused by women all cought up in romantic notions of what i think this is all about

the over romantization of this sorta makes me gag

But here is the rub... make a new word and suddenly the fad is in and everyone is going to be using it and once again the words will be the same as all the other commonly used words!

I really couldn't care less on how others use the word in there relationships or aspiring to be in relationships. Often times... I see that there mis-use is going to sooner or later cause issues.

In my own dynamic.. the word training is just not something that is used. To me the word just doesn't seem to apply. In fact... I can't say that I elevate or focus on any specific word in the effort to teach/learn things within our dynamic.

I actually find it rather interesting and sometimes even amusing that some people put so much focus on these apparent "magical" words.... Just say the word and it will come to pass! I wonder at times what is the motivation for so many to focus on these magical words.

It seems to me that many see these words when applied will create some emotional bonding experience between the individuals in the relationship and make the relationship stronger. as result. It has been my experience that is not so much actions but the motivations between individuals that create the emotional bonding. Sure there is some surface connections established.. but they are like veneer and alittle scratch will expose the lack of substance underneath.

I have found that my interest to know my girls in all aspects and their desire to know me that the by-product is that there is an exchange of knowledge that leads to learning/teaching that some would consider as training.

It just seems to me that some are putting the cart ahead of the horse and become surprized when the emotional bonding doesn't endure with all that training!

then i'm going to be special and use instruction

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:29:05 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

then i'm going to be special and use instruction

Hold on... someone grab a thesaurus cause I'm pretty sure those two words are
synonymous.

Edited to add: Never mind I did it for everyone (aren't I so sweet?) and yes they are.

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/training

Training is synonymous with instruction. Osf, you can be very smart but it seems like you have an irrational dislike for the word training. That or you are just trying up your post count.

< Message edited by AquaticSub -- 12/23/2009 7:31:35 AM >

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to osf)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:29:52 AM

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i guess my problem with the words or other commonly used words is not that they aren't appropriate but rather their over and misuse

they seem to be over/misused by women all cought up in romantic notions of what i think this is all about

the over romantization of this sorta makes me gag

the romance they get when they succeed
and punishment when not ( and I don't mean a spanking because they like it)

you read/watch to much "story of O" lol

btw...did you find school romantic?

< Message edited by Justme696 -- 12/23/2009 7:30:33 AM >

(in reply to osf)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:33:55 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AquaticSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

then i'm going to be special and use instruction

Hold on... someone grab a thesaurus cause I'm pretty sure those two words are
synonymous.

Edited to add: Never mind I did it for everyone (aren't I so sweet?) and yes they are.

http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/training

Training is synonymous with instruction. Osf, you can be very smart but it seems like you have an irrational dislike for the word training. That or you are just trying up your post count.

no i wasn't

this is for upping my count

< Message edited by osf -- 12/23/2009 7:36:56 AM >

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:35:40 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Hold on... someone grab a thesaurus cause I'm pretty sure those two words are
synonymous.

Edited to add: Never mind I did it for everyone (aren't I so sweet?) and yes they are.

hold on lil missy, i'm the dom i'll do the word meaning instruction

(in reply to AquaticSub)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:37:54 AM

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

Hold on... someone grab a thesaurus cause I'm pretty sure those two words are
synonymous.

Edited to add: Never mind I did it for everyone (aren't I so sweet?) and yes they are.

hold on lil missy, i'm the dom i'll do the word meaning instruction

Yeah but ya aren't my dom so there!

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

Member:Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair

(in reply to osf)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:38:29 AM

osf

Posts: 3288
Joined: 10/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

you read/watch to much "story of O" lol

well i do have the 10 hour dvd version of O

(in reply to Justme696)

RE: training - 12/23/2009 7:39:31 AM

Posts: 3236
Joined: 1/7/2008
From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

you read/watch to much "story of O" lol

well i do have the 10 hour dvd version of O

make me a copy please....

(in reply to osf)

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