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training - 12/21/2009 7:55:35 PM

osf

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can we come up with a different concept than train/training?

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 8:05:32 PM

NihilusZero

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I think it's called: obedience.

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 8:10:16 PM

osf

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wash your mouth out

what real skill does a grown woman today need to be trained to do?

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 8:12:37 PM

littlewonder

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There seems to be a lot of women who don't know how to cook, clean, have manners, do clerical work, fix a leaky pipe, how to be socially acceptable, how to set a table...just to name a few things among many others.

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 8:14:12 PM

NihilusZero

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There are plenty of humans who don't know how to do those things. If they happen to be the obedient sort, as I mentioned, they'll learn once you instruct them to become more proficient at them.

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 8:40:47 PM

sweetsub1957

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

There seems to be a lot of women who don't know how to cook, clean, have manners, do clerical work, fix a leaky pipe, how to be socially acceptable, how to set a table...just to name a few things among many others.

The only one of those things I don't know how to do is fix a leaky pipe. If someone teaches me how, then I'll know that too.

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 8:59:42 PM

LafayetteLady

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FR-

I have to say that I agree. You train your animals, you don't train people. I am highly self sufficient. I know how to cook, clean, etc. I know how to fix a good number of things in my house and how to take care of myself. I have a tendency when someone says that they want to train me to tell them to get themselves a puppy.

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 9:23:30 PM

tazzygirl

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The only one i cant do is program a computer, unless installing an OS counts... then im a pro

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 10:27:10 PM

MasterSlaveLA

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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
can we come up with a different concept than train/training?

Sure... Hoola Hooping!!!

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 11:16:26 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

can we come up with a different concept than train/training?

It is doubtful you will get a very wide group of people to change their use of a word simply because others don't like it.

People do get trained. I get training at work, after all.

That said, the Man and I don't really call it that, as he gradually teaches me the way he likes his house kept, his laundry folded, what types of groceries he prefers, etc. But I'm learning. Call it training, teaching, showing, demonstrating, willing...whatever you want to call it. It's really all the same to me.

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RE: training - 12/21/2009 11:29:23 PM

WyldHrt

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quote:

I have to say that I agree. You train your animals, you don't train people.

I disagree. When in a new job, there is usually training or on the job training, and I don't really see this as being that much different.

quote:

I am highly self sufficient. I know how to cook, clean, etc. I know how to fix a good number of things in my house and how to take care of myself.

As are many of us who can do the same. That said, many Doms have specific ways they like things to be done, and a submissive who chooses to serve them may be expected to do things the way the Dom prefers. The specifics require instruction. In this, it is much like the training one would get for a new job, so the word, for me, is accurate.

< Message edited by WyldHrt -- 12/21/2009 11:30:30 PM >

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 4:45:10 AM

DesFIP

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Telling me to become proficient will not work. I need to have it broken down into step by step and watched while I do it so he can see where I am having problems. And some stuff I still won't be able to do.

I have a pvc pipe that needs to be unscrewed at the trap, under the sink, so I can get the clog out. Simple, right? Wrong, because I have arthritis in my right hand and don't have enough strength to turn the thing. Doesn't matter how much you order me to do it, I can't.

But with most thing, it's a cop out to order someone. If you can't teach it, how do you expect them to learn it? And if you don't know either, then why is it only her job to become competent, why aren't you? In such a case I would lose respect if he sent me to a class while staying ignorant himself.

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 6:13:24 AM

lally2

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i expect so. but maybe its just a matter of chucking aside what you dont run with and do it youre way anyway.

you cant change a concept that has been widely acknowledged to one degree or another by thousands of people since BDSM began *probably*

but if youre just hypothesising over the whole training thing as a pointless exercise there will be plenty of people who will disagree and who actually get a great kick out of training subs and slaves and i would imagine there are a few subs and slaves who like the idea of it too.

for me personally i can see there is possible merit in helping a new sub or slave demystify the whole Ds and Ms variables within a safe (one would assume) environment before embarking on finding a relationship for themselves.

but i can also see the point that a Dominant may prefer to mould a sub or slave to his own liking.

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 6:38:09 AM

osf

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but to perform everyday tasks shouldn't some instruction suffice?

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 6:44:25 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

can we come up with a different concept than train/training?

Honestly your post is just too short and not explained enough for me to get what you are going for. There are TONS and TONS of threads on training, I'd suggest doing a search and then some research. Then try rewriting your question.

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 6:47:45 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Telling me to become proficient will not work. I need to have it broken down into step by step and watched while I do it so he can see where I am having problems. And some stuff I still won't be able to do.

I have a pvc pipe that needs to be unscrewed at the trap, under the sink, so I can get the clog out. Simple, right? Wrong, because I have arthritis in my right hand and don't have enough strength to turn the thing. Doesn't matter how much you order me to do it, I can't.

But with most thing, it's a cop out to order someone. If you can't teach it, how do you expect them to learn it? And if you don't know either, then why is it only her job to become competent, why aren't you? In such a case I would lose respect if he sent me to a class while staying ignorant himself.

That was my thought exactly. Just to give an example, yesterday my fiance asked me to fix the pocket on his pants. So I sat down at the sewing machine and after an hour figured out how to thread it (the bobbin thread was already in, I was trying to figure out how to put the thread right through the top needle) then when I started to sew it jammed. So he came home and found the thread that was stuck in there and sewed a line on some fabric.

Then today I again tried to do it and the thread did this weird funky thing where tons of bottom thread came up, then it like ate a piece of fabric that got horribly jammed. At this point I just burst into tears because it was working fine when he did it and I totally don't get why I'm so domestically challenged.

So when he got home he looked at it and fooled around with it and I got the pocket done but the point of the story is it took 2 days to do something that would have taken 3 minutes if he'd shown me what to do. Just telling someone "I want you to do this" or even worse "I want you to learn how to do this" is a recipe for disaster.

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 6:50:28 AM

AquaticSub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Psychonaut23

I like Heinlein's take on it: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects."

Erm... I can do the bolded. How well is another story and I could probably set a bone in a crisis situation, it just wouldn't heal as nicely. *chuckles*

I'm of the mind that every human needs to be aware of how to do basic things like set a table, sew on a button, do basic household repairs (even though I seem to suck at that), be polite and be a reasonable good host/ess regardless of orientations and genders.

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 6:54:14 AM

sunshinemiss

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quote:

If you can't teach it, how do you expect them to learn it? And if you don't know either, then why is it only her job to become competent, why aren't you? In such a case I would lose respect if he sent me to a class while staying ignorant himself.

Hey Celeste,
I get what you are saying here, but I also would add that there are things that I am able to do that HE won't be able to do just because of skill sets. I think it's ok for me to be taught / trained whatever outside of his sphere. Going to university... You know, I can diagnose a mental disorder in about ten minutes face to face (general, not necessarily specific). It takes a bit longer to figure out exactly what treatment to give. I don't expect HIM as a business man to be able to do that. I did get the training; he did not. See what I'm saying... now if it's how to fold his socks or something that directly impacts him, yeah... I want to know how to do that.

*************
As for the folks who say have the M-type teach you... Some people can't teach well. I was serving someone who wanted the bed made a certain way. Showing me 3 or four times never worked. "You just do it like this" (and the person's body was in the way and I couldn't see what "this" was). I looked it up online (there was nothing with the name it was called by the one I served... *sigh*). And then I took a nurse's assistant class with a TEACHER, and I learned it in about 3 minutes. So while, the one I served knew HOW, there was no teaching skill in that particular lesson.

sunshine, who teaches English now, and you would not believe how hard it is...
*Ever thought of the difference between look, watch, and see - try explaining it to someone who doesn't speak English.

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 6:58:46 AM

Elisabella

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sunshinemiss

*Ever thought of the difference between look, watch, and see - try explaining it to someone who doesn't speak English.

See is perceiving with your eyesight

Look is focusing that perception on something

Watch is maintaining that focus over time

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RE: training - 12/22/2009 7:03:39 AM

LadyPact

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While not a word that I use often, it would seem to Me that by definition, it is correct. It just happens to be one of those words and/or phrases that may not please everyone, but when used, it does give a general idea of what is meant. Some of the others that not everyone agrees with are "in the lifestyle" "what it is that we do" "consideration" and others.

I've had My boy for over two and a half years now. When I got him, he was more than competent in the everyday tasks such as cooking, cleaning, etc that any other grown person should be able to do. However, he didn't especially know how I specifically wanted things done, so he had to learn. Also, he was fairly new to the world of BDSM and authority based relationships, so those things he had to be taught. In addition, there have been numerous things over time that aren't particularly every day occurrences, such as serving at formal dinners, pedicures, learning leather protocols, etc that he's had to make the effort to acquire the skill. I'm not especially sure the term 'simple instruction' is as adequate.

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