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RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 7:47:35 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

My Lord is at work so is unable to respond to this thread, but if needed he will make a comment...

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

then i have to ask this question...(some assumptions here... so i apologize for that)... she is standing there vowing to you and You are vowing to her... and so easily you can say 'kiss my butt' you are gone?


You have made some big assumptions here.  He made no indication of how easy or hard the situation would be, he made no statements on how he would do it.  You have taken your own perceptions and made a very inaccurate and negative judgment about what he said.  The fact is you asked a very simple question and he gave a very simple but direct answer to you.  The assumptions and judgments made reflect your own narrow view point and not the view of those who answered your question.

quote:


exactly LA... you would be honest and straight up with them...


I can’t help but think that this is inferring that my Lord would not be “honest and straight up” otherwise the wording of this statement would be completely different.

quote:


ok... but what if she felt threatened by you kyra?  soooo... poof divorced... (lol no wonder we are such a litigious society)... don't like it??? sue....

what if she felt truly threatened by you kyra?  what then?  oh ok... she gets to divorce Him... walk away... leave... *major eye roll here*.


In your hasty assumptions and negative judgments of our life, you neglected to ask some very important questions:

Who suggested poly and the addition of others in the relationship?  Alandra
Who suggested the concept of the M/s relationship?  Alandra

Alandra introduced these things into the relationship and considerable discussion was had before exploring poly or labeling their relationship as M/s.  Truthfully, they were living an M/s relationship from day one though they did not label it as such.  The authority structure already existed where he had complete authority in her life; this is just who they are and not a role they play.

Considering that alandra has always dreamed of and desired a poly relationship and told him this before they were married, means that I am a dream come true for her and not a threat.  Neither entered the marriage with the assumption or idea that it would be monogamous, so no vow of monogamy was made.

Considering that they have been together for almost 20 years and she has yet to feel that he has threatened her relationship with him by introducing others into their lives, her relationship with him isn’t going to be threatened by the introduction of me.

Now consider this…. Two people are in an M/s relationship.  The master wants to do something and the slave says “no”.  The master then says, “Ok, I won’t do it”.  Who has the authority?  Not the master.  To us, that is not an M/s relationship. 

To say “no” in my M/s relationship is equivalent to saying, “my Lord, I no longer wish to be in an M/s relationship with you.”  That is the consequence of saying no.  So who has broken vows here?  Not the master; the slave has broken their vow to obey. 

I will reiterate, that saying "no" is vastly different from asking to give information about our thoughts, opinions or feeling regarding what he wants to do.  This is encouraged by him.  However, at the end of the day he will make the decision on what will be done and we will either it accept it or the M/s relationship will end.

Knight's kyra





krya... please forgive me.. alandra should be responding not you... you speak for her now? 

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 161
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 7:56:15 PM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

What if just for shits and giggles that she truly believed (because she was led to believe) that she was going into a monogoumous relationship...


Led to believe?  Is it your intention to describe this situation as some premeditated conspiracy?  People change... relationships change.... nothing in this world is static. 

This is a lot like the limits debate.  Some people will tell you to NEVER push a hard limit.  What happens when I discover, through personal growth and experience, that I truly love singletails.(and I do...btw) but I have a slave who has singletails as a hard limit (and I don't btw).  Am I supposed to stop growing and deny myself something that I feel so passionately about?  I would much rather teach my slave.  (Long hours of conversation...take her to demonstrations...show her the various types of whips and how they can be used at varying degrees of intensity.)  The same method, in my opinion, can be done when it comes to poly, vanilla, D/s, yadda yadda.

quote:


Then because He is 'king of his domain' and 'you can either agree or see the curb'... when does this become a cheating situation?  Or does it?  He gets to change his mind... and she can take it or leave it? 


Yes, we all have choices to make, King of his domain or not.

It becomes cheating as soon as it's done without the consent and knowledge of all parties involved.  No matter how well it's debated or rationalized...it's still cheating.

Yes, he gets to change his mind...it's part of the human condition. 

Yes, she can take it or leave it.

quote:

how would you feel if the One you have given your heart and soul to suddenly decided you weren't enough and He needed another? 


Why is it that so many people, when faced with this situation, automatically think that they are not 'enough'?  To answer your question... it would hurt...a lot....IF I made the assumption that I wasn't enough. (Fortunately, I don't make those kinds of assumptions...)

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 162
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 8:20:07 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

then she would find herself divorced! and without a Master.  She is a slave... and Role-play's the wife. 


::the clouds of darkness part and the sun finally breaks through.. birds sing, a cat is seen chasing a butterfly::

KoM, you're not going to have a clue why I'm saying this.. but..

THANK YOU!
 
Celeste


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 163
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 8:21:37 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		Yes... LED to believe.. and suddenly He decided she wasn't enough... ok i KNOW i'm going to get flamed for this... but it all boils down to what did You tell her at the outset?  Did she KNOW what You were thinking??  Was she submitting to you because You said certain things that in the long-run weren't true?  If that is the case... You lied to her... she believed one thing and You said what?  Oops i made a mistake?

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to MrThorns)
Profile   Post #: 164
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 8:23:42 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

did You not put a ring on her finger??? did You not VOW to her??? did she not VOW to You?  so were Your vows bullcrap?


I made a vow when Himself collared me.. which was to 'obey' him. I made another vow when Himself married me.. which was to love, honor and OBEY him.. and yes, that word was specifically included in the vow I made.. to say no is to break 'my' vow.. which puts all responsibility for my words where it duly belongs.. on my shoulders.

Celeste


_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 8:56:08 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		did He make the same vow?  What was His vow?... or was there no vow by Him... did He just stand silent while you swore to obey Him?

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 166
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 9:02:20 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

Yes... LED to believe.. and suddenly He decided she wasn't enough... ok i KNOW i'm going to get flamed for this... but it all boils down to what did You tell her at the outset?  Did she KNOW what You were thinking??  Was she submitting to you because You said certain things that in the long-run weren't true?  If that is the case... You lied to her... she believed one thing and You said what?  Oops i made a mistake?

I just really had to chuckle at this.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 167
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 9:05:22 PM   
angelic


Posts: 1807
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		i wholeheartedly believe that it takes 2 tango; however, if i have said to Him.. 'i want a one-on-one (i.e. monogomous) relationship.. and He then at some point decides what i said wasn't a 'hard limit'... He then took what i said wasn't important.... bad juju imo...

_____________________________

~....and once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you long to return.~ -- Leonardo de Vinci


(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 168
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 9:17:45 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Hmmmm.. if a passenger train had flown as far off the tracks as this thread, folks would be charging admission to let tourists come in and view the scene of the disaster...

Seriously, when people act like asses within their relationship, someone is going to get hurt, and it matters little at that point if they are hiding it behind the labels of 'marriage' or 'poly' or 'collaring'.

And under the best of circumstances, all of those endeavors have a high failiure rate, and systemic problems.

So in answer to the question 'Can it work?'.... Well, yeah, if no one screws it up.

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 169
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 9:18:52 PM   
MrDiscipline44


Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
i wholeheartedly believe that it takes 2 tango;
It may take two to tango but only one can lead, love.
quote:

however, if i have said to Him.. 'i want a one-on-one (i.e. monogomous) relationship.. and He then at some point decides what i said wasn't a 'hard limit'... He then took what i said wasn't important.... bad juju imo...

Maybe he did take what you said as not important, maybe he didn't. Either way, don't you think you should talk to him further in order to know for sure instead of just assuming? Are you the Dominant or Master in your relationship, or is he?

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 170
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 9:19:19 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		Angelic.. hun.. i loves ya... but you need to realize something... it's not going to matter what you think... what you say... what you point out that you are trying to understand... you're going to get jumped.. because you do not understand... and are trying to... because your OPINION threatens SOME... because you might possible make someone think twice. So all though I personally see..what you are saying.. where you are going with this... you might as well figure it out....you will always be known as the one... (like me to most) as one who has no idea what the hell they're talking about... because the more information you seek... the more you argue... WHILE TRYING to understand.... they'll argue more that you are wrong and jumping to the wrong conclusions in your journey to seek more information so to be able to understand more.

Good luck though.... smiles


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 171
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 9:35:28 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

did He make the same vow? 


Of course not. Why on Earth would a Master promise to obey a slave?

quote:

What was His vow?... or was there no vow by Him... did He just stand silent while you swore to obey Him?



He made the vows of marriage, which do not, now, include the word obey.. He did not know I was going to include the word in my own vow.. and when I did, he smiled and the lady who performed the service did a double take, stumbled over her next few words, then started again.. it was priceless. :)

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 9:39:09 PM   
truesub4u


Posts: 2949
Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble
. He did not know I was going to include the word in my own vow.. and when I did, he smiled and the lady who performed the service did a double take, stumbled over her next few words, then started again.. it was priceless. :)

Celeste


I bet it was... Last wedding/collaring I attended.. she did same thing.. he smiled.. the priest... he didn't know how to continue.. her Master has to remind him where they were. LOL


_____________________________

Wisdom is knowing what to do next, Skill is knowing how to do it, and Virtue is doing it.

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 10:31:55 PM   
denika


Posts: 619
Joined: 8/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

how would you feel if the One you have given your heart and soul to suddenly decided you weren't enough and He needed another? 


angelic, I'm going to take a wild guess here that someone along the line you've gotten hurt by someone and harbor some serious anger towards them or the situation.

Rob and I have been together for 15 years. Like everyone in a relationship it grows and changes with time but the core base of your beleifs don't.  I love Rob without question, I would also never give him an ultimatum. I know what the answer would be. He is not my Master, he is my husband and partner.  Knight is my Top.  This isn't a game, it's our life.  

If Rob  said I want to bring another in, my responce would be "woohoo!! If I'm good can I play too?"  

denika


(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 10:34:15 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

Hmmmm.. if a passenger train had flown as far off the tracks as this thread, folks would be charging admission to let tourists come in and view the scene of the disaster...

Seriously, when people act like asses within their relationship, someone is going to get hurt, and it matters little at that point if they are hiding it behind the labels of 'marriage' or 'poly' or 'collaring'.

And under the best of circumstances, all of those endeavors have a high failiure rate, and systemic problems.

So in answer to the question 'Can it work?'.... Well, yeah, if no one screws it up.


Loved this post :)  Simple and to the point.

i would like to reply to some posts, however.

slavejali, "for fucks sake...if we justify the shitty things people do...what hope is there" (paraphrasing) - girl i'd hate to be judged by you if that's not judging!!    Personally what i did in my marriage...well i do not view it as "absolute crap and shitty and horrible" and i would do it again if placed back there.  i don't regret what i did - i salvaged myself by doing so.  i understand you don't think i am crap, now that i am out of my marriage.  i guess if i were to meet someone in the shoes i once wore, i would want to wrap my arms around her and embrace her, rather than spew swords like so many here. 

KoM,  Thank you for your post.  i read it a few times and i think i understand where you're coming from.  Openmindedness is a trait i respect and admire; Many people do not hold such a trait.  i appreciate Your candor.  Thank you.

angelic, the thing is, sometimes people discover things about themselves after they have been married.  In my Master's case, he did not enter his marriage saying "by the way I'm a Master and I will have slaves."  It was only 20 years or so into the marriage when he realized he could not live while supressing himself anymore, and so he told his wife of his intention to explore himself, inviting her to do so with him. She declined but was accepting of him doing so, under terms that she was comfortable with.  So, it's not a case of changing the rules, it is a case of adapting and evolving through life.  Like i have said before, things are not black and white.


(in reply to Alumbrado)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 10:44:49 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

To say “no” in my M/s relationship is equivalent to saying, “my Lord, I no longer wish to be in an M/s relationship with you.”  That is the consequence of saying no.  So who has broken vows here?  Not the master; the slave has broken their vow to obey. 

I will reiterate, that saying "no" is vastly different from asking to give information about our thoughts, opinions or feeling regarding what he wants to do.  This is encouraged by him.  However, at the end of the day he will make the decision on what will be done and we will either it accept it or the M/s relationship will end.

Knight's kyra





kyra i whole heartedly agree with this.  This is as it was clearly explained to me from the start.  And no matter how much he might care for me and love me and want me as his slave....He is no longer my Master the day i decide not to submit.  On the other hand, i am always able to bring him thoughts or concerns, or to ask him about his decision to help me reach clarification...to a point :)

(in reply to kyraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 11:44:12 PM   
alandraofMists


Posts: 187
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline 		krya's post cut  to save on thread space *ss*

quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic

krya... please forgive me.. alandra should be responding not you... you speak for her now? 



angelic,  you have no say in who responds to any question put to krya or me... our Lord decides. and as such kyra responded to your question with our Lord's support and blessing.

i whole heartedly agree with what kyra has written and can only expand upon one thing... loving and having others share in His life has not always been easy... while i have never felt threatened by Him bringing in others... i have questioned and evaluated whither other people were damaging to my well-being and asked for permission to express to Him my thoughts and perceptions of what i was going through in dealing with the other person being in His life..... and in expressing to Him i accepted amd trust He will make the decision best for all involved.

neither krya or i have ever thought or expressed to Him that He could not have someone else in His life... that is not our choice or right....we have expressed to Him when He has given us permission... the hurt and problems that we saw and were feeling because of a relationship He was having...neither our Lord or us see this as telling Him "no" but in giving Him the information He is seeking and asking for (by His consent) to make an informed decision.

we are responsible for our own well-being and our own moral choices. we knew when we each began our relaiontship with Him that He would always do what He felt and saw was in the best interest for all in His care.

i would never try and change that about Him, His strength of honor and integrity are very much a part of the person i call my Lord...that to demand He do anything else would be denying myself who He is.

angelic, you have mentioned in a post after kyra's about vows that were exchanged.... for your information He vowed to Love, Honor, and Cherish,  i vowed to Love, Honor, and OBEY... no where in the vows exchanged by Him and me was the  vow of fedeity. In not obeying His will or His choices... i am breaking my vows to Him, and this would automaticly release Him from His vows. and the reverse is also true.

Knight's alandra

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/22/2006 11:51:54 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline
quote:


Original: alandraofMists
i vowed to Love, Honor, and OBEY


I remember at our wedding as there were family and friends there, blushing when I said the "obey" word in front of everyone. It was the one word that symbolised our Master and slave relationship in our wedding to me *grin*

(in reply to alandraofMists)
Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/23/2006 2:40:58 AM   
ExistentialSteel


Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline 		This is a debate that flows on here now and then under different headings. I certainly will not be so naïve to think the only way is monogamous.  In addition, I would be a hypocrite with the way I’ve done things just a short while ago. (Some subs on CM can remind me of my past if I were to say such a thing.) Obviously, many on here are poly or are into casual relationships and very happy. I know that I, a Dom, was happy in such situations for a long time. I had a drive to be poly and do as many as I could in every setting you can imagine.

In relatively recent history, I’ve become monogamous and understand what Angelic is talking about. When there is a union of one to one on every level, things are different. All of the energy and time of the two people becomes focused on each other and the relationship. That creates a special feeling and bond. The time constrictions, alone, can’t be duplicated in poly relationships, I found. The more time spent focused on someone, the higher the high of a relationship.

Many into poly relationships eventually move into mono and change their views as I have. Of course, many in mono (sounds like a disease, I know) move into poly. However, to discount poly would indicate that I don’t see the many relationships built on it right here on CM. In addition, think of the “illegal” Mormons and other such groups. You must realize the minds of many where they gain comfort or excitement in settings where they share physically, emotionally and sexually….whether it is sharing one Dom, one sub, swapping or whatever.

I’ll leave it with there are two different echelons. Many are happy in each.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to MrDiscipline44)
Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Collars when married to others - 3/23/2006 4:37:46 AM   
kyraofMists


Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: angelic
krya... please forgive me.. alandra should be responding not you... you speak for her now? 


It isn't for you to say what I should or should not respond to.  In this instance, I responded as instructed.

What you don't understand about the relationship between the three of us is that we three are one.  Our love, devotion, committment and understanding of each other are so deep, that we can finish each other's sentences and often we know each other's thoughts before they are ever spoken (most especially alandra and me).  So if you ask me a question, most often the response will also reflect the view of the house.

Knight's kyra

_____________________________

"Passion... it lies in all of us. Sleeping, waiting, and though unbidden, it will stir, open its jaws, and howl. It speaks to us, guides us... passion rules us all. And we obey..." ~Angelus

(in reply to angelic)
Profile   Post #: 180
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