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Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 7:11:56 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Ok, almost 5 years ago I started a thread on Forced Masculinity. Let's just say it had it's ups and downs. Part of it was because, as usual, I come to these forums with my half-formed ideas, ready to discuss them and I always inadvertently end up offending someone. But as we say in French, c'est la vie!

Now, I bring back the topic, a little wiser, a little more clear on what it is that I want to say. I call it "forced masculinity" to sort of counterbalance this incredibly huge demand for forced feminization.

One of things that has gotten me thinking is why do a great deal of sub men want to be dressed up like women? Is it because they want to be like us? Is it because they look up to us? What I've learned from those I've taken the time to get to know (and of course I'm not implying that this is every crossdresser's motivation) is that there is a desire to ignore the male aspect within themselves, to castrate it emotionally, to supress it.

Well fuck that! I want to bring it out the masculinity in my man ;-) You really want to be forced, boy? I'll force you to look in the mirror and reflect on what you really think a man is supposed to be, how a gentleman is supposed to act and treat his woman.

This is a crosspost from an article I wrote on FetLife about a month ago while reflecting on all this.

Respect. For your Lady. For yourself. That is what being a devoted gentleman is all about.

I crave gallant, chivalrous, masculine devoted gentlemen.

A devoted gentleman is well mannered and considerate. He opens doors for his Lady, walk on the outside side of the sidewalk and behind her up the stairs. He offers her his arm, helps her with her coat, pulls out her chair for her, stands when she, or any other Lady, excuses herself from the table. A devoted gentleman ensures his Lady's safety and comfort in a strong, confident way. Gallantry is also of high importance, lending her his jacket when she's cold, carrying an umbrella over her when it rains.

However, a gentleman is much more than a devoted man who treats his Lady well. A true gentleman behaves in an exemplary fashion, always. He is polite and courteous with others, doesn't interrupt conversations. When he contributes, he stays on topic, avoids cursing or speaking loudly. He keeps his temper in check. During moments of tension, he will keep his cool and be the bigger man. He is polite, discreet and well groomed, hair and nails well trimmed. He has impeccable manners and knows proper wine service etiquette. He greets people with a firm handshake, makes eye contact with others when he is speaking to them and is capable of discussing a variety of subjects. He is discreet about his income, assets and in general does not discuss money in public situations.

It is delightful to come across a gentleman. Unfortunately, I find they have become a rare bread.

It is also delightful to train a boy in the fine art of being a gentleman. I enjoy teaching him how I expect him to treat his Lady as well as all the aspects of being a true devoted gentleman. My incredibly high standards are appreciated as well.

There is a fabulous 3 part resource in the AskMen.com online magazine:

* Etiquette Of A Gentleman: Part I
* Etiquette Of A Gentleman: Part II
* Etiquette Of A Gentleman: Part III


So I look at my reflections from back then are still pertinent today:

My kink is masculanization. I feel a lot of men have lost touch of their masculinity. They have been "dénaturé" as we say in French, which is to take out of it's native environment, to deprive of its natural character, properties, etc,

I like to bring a man in touch with his true masculinity. Not some macho overcompensation but what it is to be a true gentleman, to take pride in manhood, in strength, etc.

Any other Domme share my fetish?


- LA

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 7:14:40 PM   
Lockit


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OMG... I saw the title flash by and nearly choked! ROFL... okay... going to read it now!

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 7:38:57 PM   
rockspider


Posts: 633
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LOL. I think she is going to look for a looooong time. Of course i could put up a list for my self for a sub, but if she really did exist I would think that she would be looking for Branson (Virgin Airwyas) in stead of a midle aged tradesman with a few pounds extra and a thinning top.
Well we can all dream. Which way did Elizabeth Hurley go?
What i do find absolute amusing is that her profile states only what she wants. Not a single word of what she is offering in return, not even a glimpse of what she might look like.

< Message edited by rockspider -- 1/14/2010 7:43:32 PM >

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 7:45:17 PM   
SimplyIsaac


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Well fuck that! I want to bring it out the masculinity in my man ;-) You really want to be forced, boy? I'll force you to look in the mirror and reflect on what you really think a man is supposed to be, how a gentleman is supposed to act and treat his woman.

This is a crosspost from an article I wrote on FetLife about a month ago while reflecting on all this.

Respect. For your Lady. For yourself. That is what being a devoted gentleman is all about.



Applause!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 7:46:01 PM   
SolangeRichards


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I've long thought that the archetype of American Masculinity was John Wayne. I mean this with who he was on screen, not to be confused with the guy he was in real life, just that epitome of the American guy he was in the movies. No real need I think to enumerate the traits, we're talking about John Wayne here...

In his final film, The Shootist, he makes a statement, a credo for his character, a credo in fact for all of his characters, he says,

"I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."

When the film came out, I thought to myself that this statement really cleaved to that which is a man. The Duke is not asking, he's not hoping, he's just simply saying what has to happen. For him, and for all men

Now, maybe I extrapolated some stuff, but I took that statement by Wayne, and came to the conclusion that a man was in charge of his life, and a man decided how he was going to live, and as long as he respected those very simple rules that Wayne's character laid out, he was a man in charge of his destiny and a man in control of his masculinity.

I took the lesson to heart, and here I am now. A man, in control of his destiny, doing what I think is right for me. I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them.

Really, isn't that just about as masculine as it gets?

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 7:54:03 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Well fuck that! I want to bring it out the masculinity in my man ;-) You really want to be forced, boy? I'll force you to look in the mirror and reflect on what you really think a man is supposed to be, how a gentleman is supposed to act and treat his woman.

This is a crosspost from an article I wrote on FetLife about a month ago while reflecting on all this.

Respect. For your Lady. For yourself. That is what being a devoted gentleman is all about.



Applause!


Thanks so much Isaac. I'm hoping to stir up an interesting conversation about this, crossing fingers.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 7:57:07 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SolangeRichards
Really, isn't that just about as masculine as it gets?


You are doing what's right for you. There is at least a thread a week about trans or forced fem. Once every 5 years, can I talk about MY kink? Hmmm?

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 1/14/2010 7:58:01 PM >


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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:02:16 PM   
SolangeRichards


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Frankly, I thought we were, and I hoped I was giving you an alternate take on your kink.....


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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:12:05 PM   
Lockit


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I grew up with men who were like this. Oh there was the rough-neck construction worker type of my step dad... and he was my dad... but even as rough as he and his buddy's were, we were ladies. From the time I was bouncing on Uncle John's knee and treated like something special, to the time when I was out on my own, the men around me knew I was a tough lil cookie, but they opened doors and insisted even when I wanted to hurry and get out of a car. I hung with a lot of people in the music industry, with cowboy hats and boots and lil ladies on their arms.

I do relax things in many settings and am pretty casual... but I do love a man who wants to be a gentleman. I love that blend of tough guy and gentleman. I also love other types of men, but always, I want a gentleman. Now... I have had those rough talkin guys, just like me, but they were still gentlemen with me. I think I have been with all sorts of men... artist, intellectuals, businessmen, geeks... and always gentlemen.

I don't want to force it... I want it to come naturally as a desire to please me. I don't expect queen status... but that special treatment denotes something important I think. So while I may have honky tonked... a lot... I was treated like a lady, even when I wasn't acting like one! lol (And I worked and partied a lil bit, in a bar/cafe that John Wayne was a regular at, when he was living on his boat.)

While I don't mind that some men wish to cross dress or are different than the men I have been with and I am very happy when they find someone who can really appreciate them as a partner, I have never seen myself a part of this type of relationship. I see my man in 501's and well... it just does something for me. (Must be all that time bartending and watching them bend over a pool table.)





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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:27:05 PM   
SolangeRichards


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You know, even though some might condescend to me that this thread is not about crossdressing, and inform me that there are weekly threads about that sunject, my post really had nothing to do with crossdressing, outside the fact I crossdress.

The thread is in praise of masculinity to a certain extent, a subject that believe it or not, I know a little about in terms of live fire on the battlefield....

Just saying that it comes in many forms, and it exhibits itself in many ways.

"What a piece of work is a man, how noble in reason, how
infinite in faculties, in form and moving how express and
admirable, in action how like an angel, in apprehension how like
a god"

I chose who I am, it wasn't forced, I did not back into it, I decided and if we are celebrating men, don't I get a high five for deciding, and becoming, that who I wanted?

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:30:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit
I don't want to force it...


Me neither really, but I like to definitely reacquaint a man with it.

I am fully aware that gender isn't just 2 polar opposites of male and female, but rather a broad spectrum of diversity. The thing is, I am not addressing those who want to explore all that is in between. I've had plenty of friends who've done that over the last 20 years or so and I've supported them. A woman I used to date in my 20s used to be a drag king for fun! She ended up looking like a gay boy though!

The thing is, I find that many submissive men are ashamed of the man within them. I joke around about the forced to a point. I like to take them shopping for a well tailored italian suit for example. They always go into it thinking it's silly but then feel so awesome when they take me out on the town for a dinner and look so damn smashing!

I actually use orgasm control to get them in touch with their male libido as well. But that is a whole other ball of wax! Much fun though!

quote:

I see my man in 501's and well... it just does something for me.


Me too!!

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:38:53 PM   
cloudboy


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Must say that I thought Lola was right last time. Namely, the opposite of forced feminization of males would be the masculinization of women.

The alternative you offer to feminization is "masculinization" but, what is the difference between that and garden variety male behavior modification?

As a femdom, it seems you should be able to pick and choose what you want, but why the need to set up your own likes as something against / in contrast to feminization, & CDs? What purpose does this polemic serve?

-----

P.S. The pitting of Stef & MOD 11 v. Lola was classic high theater.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 1/14/2010 8:52:35 PM >

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:44:16 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

What purpose does this polemic serve?


Not that I answer to you, to talk about my kink. Now do you mind? ;-)

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:45:46 PM   
Lockit


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I have a major headache and may be missing something... but damn... we talk about cross dressing or have a thread about it constantly. LA had a thread many years ago on this topic and is bringing it back, looking for some conversation on the topic... wondering some things maybe... interested in a discussion.

Maybe some of us get tired of the constant threads on 'forced fem', which are different than the accepted feminization of someone at peace with what they wish to do and who isn't focused on just what they want, but the sharing of it with someone who is a great partner to them.

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:47:55 PM   
SolangeRichards


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Yanno, often on the feminization threads, feminine males are often chided that they can never really "get there" because basically, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Not sure though how you could forcibly masculinize a masculine guy, outside of telling him to stop wearing New York Yankee fan apparel and switch to Boston Red Sox gear.....

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:49:36 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Lockit, thanks for trying to help. I have a feeling it is a wasted effort. I guess as a Domina on Collarme.com, I'm not allowed to talk about my kink without being flamed.

So not only am I being told by half of the submissive men what I should be doing to them, the other part is telling me that I can't talk about what I like.

- LA

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:50:18 PM   
cloudboy


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quote:

Not that I answer to you, to talk about my kink. Now do you mind? ;-)


That's great talking about your kink. I get that. If you want to call it the masculinization of males, great. Why the polemic? Why not talk about your kink without a polemic?

How do you differentiate "masculinization" from garden variety male behavior modification?

Extremely interested in your views here.

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 8:51:26 PM   
MzMia


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What I love about "forced masculinity" is for many of the submissive
men around here, it REALLY would be forced.
Has anyone on here ever seen a submissive male asking for it!!!!!!! !
ROFL


I can see the title of the thread now.........
"Hello ladies, have any of you wonderful Dominant women, ever forced
a man to act masculine?"
"Especially a man on here begging to feminized?"

 "If so how did that work out? Did he stick around? 
I love it!
weeeeeeeeeeeee

< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/14/2010 8:54:55 PM >


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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 9:00:02 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

Not that I answer to you, to talk about my kink. Now do you mind? ;-)


That's great talking about your kink. I get that. If you want to call it the masculinization of males, great. Why the polemic? Why not talk about your kink without a polemic?

How do you differentiate "masculinization" from garden variety male behavior modification?

Extremely interested in your views here.


I said I was talking about my perspective. I also said that I realised that my perspective wasn't all encompassing and probably didn't represent anyone else's reality. So how many more disclaimers and caveats until you leave us talk about the subject at hand? Just asking...

- LA

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RE: Forced Masculinity, Take 2 - 1/14/2010 9:01:19 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

"Hello ladies, have any of you wonderful Dominant women, ever forced
a man to act masculine?"


I most definitely have. Over and over. And not just one. And they loved it incredibly.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to MzMia)
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