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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:47:45 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy
Maybe you didn't articulate your words correctly?


Maybe. It isn't actually something that I find easy to articulate, hence the reason that I started the thread.

- LA


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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 11:04:41 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Very true. But they chose to live a heterosexual life. That is what I'm saying about choice. We all can chose.

- LA



Actually I would say they chose to live a pretense of a heterosexual life. They choose to lie to their spouse and make their spouse feel incompetent and insufficient because of that lie.
They choose to teach their children through their actions that they are basically unlovable in their authentic selves.

They choose to ruin several lives rather than have the courage to be who they are.

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Cynical and proud of it!


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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 11:07:36 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Very true. But they chose to live a heterosexual life. That is what I'm saying about choice. We all can chose.

- LA



Actually I would say they chose to live a pretense of a heterosexual life. They choose to lie to their spouse and make their spouse feel incompetent and insufficient because of that lie.
They choose to teach their children through their actions that they are basically unlovable in their authentic selves.

They choose to ruin several lives rather than have the courage to be who they are.


And what if by nature they are a very uncourageous person?

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:09:02 PM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

And what if by nature they are a very uncourageous person?

- LA


They think psychotics are born that way, and just because it is in their nature to do the heinous things that they do does not change the fact they must be stopped.

Being an uncourageous person is not in and of itself a bad thing, but using people nonconsensually because of it is....



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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:15:14 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I agree 100%. I just think all of this isn't as black and white as some people would like it to be.

- LA


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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:24:25 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Life is rarely black and white...

I am sure some people have more choice and flexibility in their choices than others do...


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:27:30 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility.

- LA


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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:30:14 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility.

- LA



Okay, now we are entering Foucault land


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:32:52 PM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

I agree 100%. I just think all of this isn't as black and white as some people would like it to be.

- LA



It is black and white for those that are black and white. All of the rationalization and conversation in the word is not going to change that fact.

So the gay guy goes out and fucks a woman...It is going to change nothing. He is gay and he might feel a little repulsed at betraying his true self.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:36:36 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility.

- LA



Okay, now we are entering Foucault land



I <3 Paul-Michel Foucault!! It's not my fault, I'm a hard wired post-structuralist and postmodernist!

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:38:34 PM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		I am not sure I get the point of this thread at all really, in so far as I don't see the point of it. That is probably why I don't like it very much, I don't like the accusatory nature that reads bellow the surface. See as I see it you can transfer thoughts like these to something far less antagonistic. I like chocolate, I just am, I don't know why it is probably a combination of things if I never ate chocolate again I wouldn't stop being able to function but I wouldn't stop liking chocolate. To me that is the same as what we are talking about here. All impulses and desires can be controlled but sometimes controling them is a bad thing

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:39:11 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility.

- LA




Okay, now we are entering Foucault land



I <3 Paul-Michel Foucault!! It's not my fault, I'm a hard wired post-structuralist and postmodernist!

- LA



Okay, I have an admitted fondness for this guy when looking at sexuality... that is a fact... power is about who wields it at any one time and all that good shit



_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:39:27 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		The point IS...... nobody really like a banjo player!


Jeff

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:45:25 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

The point IS...... nobody really like a banjo player!


Jeff


Its not like you play the accordion....don't be so hard on yourself man.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:46:02 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I am not sure I get the point of this thread at all really, in so far as I don't see the point of it. That is probably why I don't like it very much, I don't like the accusatory nature that reads bellow the surface. See as I see it you can transfer thoughts like these to something far less antagonistic.

It's really ok that you don't like this thread. There are a lot of threads on this board that I don't care for much neither. I can assure you that as the OP, my quest was to understand things and not accuse anyone of anything. There have been responses in which people made accusatory remarks, and like you, I'm not fond of those neither. But in the end, this is a forum where people will come to voice their opinions.

quote:

I like chocolate, I just am, I don't know why it is probably a combination of things if I never ate chocolate again I wouldn't stop being able to function but I wouldn't stop liking chocolate. To me that is the same as what we are talking about here. All impulses and desires can be controlled but sometimes controling them is a bad thing


While that was not the point of the OP, it is a very good addition to the discussion.

What I'm saying is that in a place where we have the liberty to chose to be who we want to be to a large degree, we are making choices every day that define who we are.

People are more than welcomed to disagree with me. I welcome debates and people have made awesome points so far that have made me think a lot. That is why I post such threads. As my sig line says: An unexamined life is not worth living (Socrates)

- LA




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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:51:00 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Absolutely. Or perceived choice and flexibility.

- LA




Okay, now we are entering Foucault land



I <3 Paul-Michel Foucault!! It's not my fault, I'm a hard wired post-structuralist and postmodernist!

- LA



Okay, I have an admitted fondness for this guy when looking at sexuality... that is a fact... power is about who wields it at any one time and all that good shit


Oh his writings on the Prison system as a means of dominance and reform are right on the money as well.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:52:52 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

The point IS...... nobody really like a banjo player!


Jeff


Its not like you play the accordion....don't be so hard on yourself man.


I DO NOT play the banjo......... Incidentally, what  do you call perfect pitch on a banjo?

When you toss it into a dumpster and it hits an accordion!

Ok... back to the thread

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:53:51 PM   
Scheherazade67


Posts: 25
Joined: 1/16/2010
Status: offline 		Yes I agree that ultimately - as an adult - it is a choice.

However, environment or not, very little of what shapes us when we are younger is about choice. That's sort of what most of childhood is about. We don't have many choices. Unfortunately.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:57:41 PM   
Rochsub2009


Posts: 2536
Status: offline 		i think you made this discussion unnecessarily volatile by including sexual orientation in the equation.  That is a hot potato that always causes lots of debate. 

The more interesting component of the question for me is the kink aspects.  Do we choose our BDSM role?  IMO, that is a very different question.  Do we choose to be masochistic?  Do we choose to be sadistic?  Do we choose to be submissive?  Do we choose to be dominant?  These are very different questions than the sexual orientation question (and much less volatile).

Personally, i enjoy being submissive, but when i cannot find a dominant woman, then i will often engage in vanilla relationships.  Some of the vanilla relationships are very enjoyable.  Given no other choice, i could probably be content in a permanent vanilla relationship.  But if i have a choice, i PREFER power exchange.

Perhaps some would say that the preference is hard wired into me, and therefore it is not a choice at all.  i don't have the expertise (or necessary data) to draw that conclusion.  So i will say that for me, it is a matter of choice with a definite preference.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 2/13/2010 1:02:45 PM >

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 12:57:52 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I could no more choose to be gay than I could choose to be black.

This is not homophobia. This is just a fact.

I do not think I am an anomaly.


Jeff

_____________________________

"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to Scheherazade67)
Profile   Post #: 60
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