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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 9:43:07 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		I did not have a choice in being straight or dominant. Those qualities just are.

I did have a choice whether or not I actively sought to find those who understood those qualities about me, accept them, and embrace them.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 9:46:00 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		No argument that we choose what and when to pursue interests, and people. I'm straight does not mean that I fuck any male out there. It means that my pool of available partners is limited to biological males and also by a host of other things; intelligence, stature, age, weight, location, morals & ethics, etc. Also they can't be golf players, I have an irrational disdain of golf and won't be able to listen to you talk about how your game went.

As far as submissive goes, I was always the good kid, the one who did her homework and didn't get into trouble. The one who wanted the gold star on her homework and so on. There are people who are people pleasers, as to where it comes from - birth order, nature or nurture? Not a clue.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 9:49:50 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I didn't choose to be a dominant personality, however, I did choose to act on it.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 9:50:01 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I'm curious about origins, simply.


This has been debated in the scientific community for some time, and there is a growing consensus that homosexuality is no more a choice than hetrosexuality... Like I said, if one tells someone they have to choose against their orientation it goes against something that is in the core of who they are, and I do not think it was nurtured into them....


True. Perhaps saying that I was curious about origins was not the proper way to phrase it. What I'm trying to say is that regardless of what we feel deep down inside, we either chose to do it or not.

- LA



Yes, we can choose to not have sex, lots of people choose celibacy. I do not think we choose what makes us hot. In other words I could no more pretend to be in love with a woman than a lesbian could force herself to be in love with a man... I know people have a scale with which they are bisexual or are bicurious... but the vast majority of people are wired for a relationship with one sex or another. In other words most people do not romanticize both genders...

What you are saying has been used to convince gay people that they have a "choice", well yeah, we can choose to be dissatisfied and unfulfilled and emotionally castrate ourselves because society says we should... that is always a "choice" I suppose...

As far as being a submissive personality in my intimate relationships with men.. I could choose to in charge of everything because he doesn't want to. I could make all the important decisions for the relationship. I could force myself to be that person... I could make that choice. I would be very unhappy in that role, but I suppose I could adopt it if I had to...


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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 9:52:05 AM   
lexey


Posts: 17
Joined: 6/28/2009
Status: offline 		A rather thought-provoking post- my thanks.

I believe our personalities are pretty much set from Day 1. I used to think otherwise until life proved my thinking wrong. Events may nudge our ingrained selves this way or that, but they won't change who we inherently are.

That said, we are creatures with the ability to process information and actively decide which path to take. The choices made are a reflection of, maybe even a reaction to, the person our neurons and synapses dictate we are.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 9:52:10 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I also like to state I am the type to always make a choice in anything I pursue to really become involved in.


The reason why I agree with this statement is because for a while, I chose to seek relationships in the vanilla world. The thing is, it was easy to find men to be submissive to me. The sadomasochistic, not so much. But I could technically chose to take that out of my life, ergo, a lifestyle I chose.

Also, I do want to add that some choices take a lot more courage to make than others.

- LA



I think I'm about on the same page as you, but I could not take the sadomasochistic part out of it.  My kinky physical needs as they relate to S&M are more compelling to me than my (vanilla)  sexual needs, for the most part.  When I am in the mood to get my femdom physical itch scratched, I can't just blow it off, it becomes a huge distraction.  I differentiate this from "general horniness" because at the end of the day, I always have a vibrator if I need *sexual release in the form of an orgasm* that bad and my partner isn't available.  S&M is different, it requires a living, breathing man who is enduring - specifically for me.

Add in the fact that these urges were present as far back as I could remember (and were non-sexual when I was a non-sexual entity still, merely evolving with my sexuality), that I had a very normal upbringing with zero weirdness or drama on any scale, and that my urges and orientation are totally unwavering (switching? Nah, not for me), it makes it more of a mystery.

As far back as I can remember I've wanted to tie up, torment,  and tease a man for my amusement and pleasure, so long as he was willing and ESPECIALLY if he was scared but really wanted to do it for me.  As soon as I figured out how women relate to men, it became apparent to me that I had to learn how to seduce men to trust me to do these things.  When I discovered what S&M was, it all made more sense to me.

Akasha

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 9:56:27 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

I'm curious about origins, simply.


This has been debated in the scientific community for some time, and there is a growing consensus that homosexuality is no more a choice than hetrosexuality... Like I said, if one tells someone they have to choose against their orientation it goes against something that is in the core of who they are, and I do not think it was nurtured into them....


True. Perhaps saying that I was curious about origins was not the proper way to phrase it. What I'm trying to say is that regardless of what we feel deep down inside, we either chose to do it or not.

- LA



Yes, we can choose to not have sex, lots of people choose celibacy. I do not think we choose what makes us hot. In other words I could no more pretend to be in love with a woman than a lesbian could force herself to be in love with a man... I know people have a scale with which they are bisexual or are bicurious... but the vast majority of people are wired for a relationship with one sex or another. In other words most people do not romanticize both genders...


Perhaps most, perhaps not. I have straight girlfriends who wish they were gay as to have relationships with women as they are tired of putting up with men's shit (their words, not mine). We also have lesbian friends who laugh at them for thinking there is less discord amongst women.

Maybe it is the circles I hang in, but most of my friends have had sexual and even romantic relationships with both genders.

quote:

What you are saying has been used to convince gay people that they have a "choice", well yeah, we can choose to be dissatisfied and unfulfilled and emotionally castrate ourselves because society says we should... that is always a "choice" I suppose...


Any words can be twisted to mean anything. I mean I know how often mine have been, just even on here! Obviously the above is not my opinion. I do know some gay men who chose a heterosexual marriage because they tought it would be easier. Some still say it is. It is not for me to judge.
quote:


As far as being a submissive personality in my intimate relationships with men.. I could choose to in charge of everything because he doesn't want to. I could make all the important decisions for the relationship. I could force myself to be that person... I could make that choice. I would be very unhappy in that role, but I suppose I could adopt it if I had to...


So it's good that you can be who you are, right?

- LA



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(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:01:15 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Snip... I do know some gay men who chose a heterosexual marriage because they tought it would be easier. Some still say it is. It is not for me to judge.

- LA




This is what I was stating above. Those men you know are still gay regardless of who they married. The only choice they made was whether or not to find someone who embraced their homosexuality. They chose not to most likely due to societal pressure. While they may in fact love their spouse, it's highly unlikely that they are fully 'in love' with their spouse, and even more unlikely that they consider themselves heterosexual.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:01:57 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

I think I'm about on the same page as you, but I could not take the sadomasochistic part out of it. My kinky physical needs as they relate to S&M are more compelling to me than my (vanilla) sexual needs, for the most part. When I am in the mood to get my femdom physical itch scratched, I can't just blow it off, it becomes a huge distraction. I differentiate this from "general horniness" because at the end of the day, I always have a vibrator if I need *sexual release in the form of an orgasm* that bad and my partner isn't available. S&M is different, it requires a living, breathing man who is enduring - specifically for me.


And it wasn't easy to live without the S&M. I remember a time with a vanilla man biting his shoulder hard during the act of love making, which in turn made him lose his erection. I was in the heat of the moment... the sadist in me came out naturally.

The reason why I came back to a venue such as this one to find a partner is while I could find the relationship dynamic I wanted in the vanilla world, I could not find the level of kink I wanted. The downside is that I am having a hard time finding the kind of man I want here.

In the end, I believe I'm making active choices to move my destiny forward and live my life on my terms.

- LA


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:03:46 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Snip... I do know some gay men who chose a heterosexual marriage because they tought it would be easier. Some still say it is. It is not for me to judge.

- LA




This is what I was stating above. Those men you know are still gay regardless of who they married. The only choice they made was whether or not to find someone who embraced their homosexuality. They chose not to most likely due to societal pressure. While they may in fact love their spouse, it's highly unlikely that they are fully 'in love' with their spouse, and even more unlikely that they consider themselves heterosexual.


Very true. But they chose to live a heterosexual life. That is what I'm saying about choice. We all can chose.

- LA


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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:04:34 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

...we might not necessarily choose our desires, but I do think that we are making an active choice when we seek out the relationships that we do.



Nothing to add... the above sums up my feelings well.




< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 2/13/2010 10:05:07 AM >

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:04:36 AM   
ricken


Posts: 261
Joined: 1/11/2010
Status: offline 		I agree with you that desires & impulses are hard wired. But we do have a choice in the ones we examine, learn about and expand on. This is what I'm learning about myself. I think we chose to act on and learn more about desires that we think will give us the greatest joy in life.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:05:25 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

Any words can be twisted to mean anything. I mean I know how often mine have been, just even on here! Obviously the above is not my opinion. I do know some gay men who chose a heterosexual marriage because they tought it would be easier. Some still say it is. It is not for me to judge.


I think that when we use words like choice they are loaded with that meaning... that is what I am getting at. I do not think this is your opinion, but the "choice" word is always used by those who hate people who are different from them to get them to not be that way... well if it is a choice they can "unchoose" it... see what I mean?




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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:08:39 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

Any words can be twisted to mean anything. I mean I know how often mine have been, just even on here! Obviously the above is not my opinion. I do know some gay men who chose a heterosexual marriage because they tought it would be easier. Some still say it is. It is not for me to judge.


I think that when we use words like choice they are loaded with that meaning... that is what I am getting at. I do not think this is your opinion, but the "choice" word is always used by those who hate people who are different from them to get them to not be that way... well if it is a choice they can "unchoose" it... see what I mean?


I do see what you mean, and I agree. And for others, the idea of being able to chose is liberating :-)

- LA

< Message edited by LadyAngelika -- 2/13/2010 10:09:00 AM >

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:09:15 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		In regard to how we live, I agree, there is some choice involved. How we determine who we are, I still believe those things are determined before birth.

So while I could pursue a relationship with a woman because I got tired of men (hey I've thought about it, really), I would still be heterosexual. Why? Because I'm simply not attracted to women in a sexual manner. I would in that situation be shorting the other woman out of things she needs in a relationship...my real self. I would be shorting myself as well, because I wouldn't be with someone I was genuinely attracted to. So there is some choice in who we date and what we do, but if we want to fully realize our happiness, the choices we make would be better if we made them based on who we really are.

Ok, that's a bit wordy and clunky...lol. I hope you understand what I'm saying.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:09:44 AM   
catize


Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline 		There are many aspects of my life where I am not submissive; but in my intimate relationships it is what works best for me.

Looking back, I realize that unconsciously I chose partners hoping they would dominate me, but they were, instead, abusive.

This is what I know; I have had much more successful relationships where I am submissive to a dominant man.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:17:56 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		What I really like so far is the diversity of opinions from black and white to shades of grey...

I wonder if people who are more flexible in seing things in shades of grey have more flexibility in their desires as well.

- LA


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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:21:59 AM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		They may have been born that way.

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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:26:34 AM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

They may have been born that way.

Cheeky!! Veeeeery cheeky ;-)

- LA


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RE: Who you are. A question of determinism or did you h... - 2/13/2010 10:29:28 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika


I actually have a hard time accepting that an able mind and bodied mature individual living in the Western World feels they aren't actively chosing their sexual, gender or kink orientation.



- LA




Why would anyone then "choose" to be gay or have gender identity issues?

Maybe you didn't articulate your words correctly?

< Message edited by domiguy -- 2/13/2010 10:30:22 AM >

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