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ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I could no more choose to be gay than I could choose to be black.

This is not homophobia. This is just a fact.

I do not think I am an anomaly.


Jeff

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ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I DO NOT play the banjo......... Incidentally, what  do you call perfect pitch on a banjo?

When you toss it into a dumpster and it hits an accordion!

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
What I'm saying is that in a place where we have the liberty to chose to be who we want to be to a large degree, we are making choices every day that define who we are.

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bagpipe player (killing him instantly)

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ORIGINAL: Scheherazade67

Yes I agree that ultimately - as an adult - it is a choice.

However, environment or not, very little of what shapes us when we are younger is about choice. That's sort of what most of childhood is about. We don't have many choices. Unfortunately.

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ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

i think you made this discussion unnecessarily volatile by including sexual orientation in the equation.  That is a hot potato that always causes lots of debate. 

The more interesting component of the question for me is the kink aspects.  Do we choose our BDSM role?  IMO, that is a very different question.  Do we choose to be masochistic?  Do we choose to be sadistic?  Do we choose to be submissive?  Do we choose to be dominant?  These are very different questions than the sexual orientation question (and much less volatile).

Personally, i enjoy being submissive, but when i cannot find a dominant woman, then i will often engage in vanilla relationships.  Some of the vanilla relationships are very enjoyable.  Given no other choice, i could probably be content in a permanent vanilla relationship.  But if i have a choice, i PREFER power exchange.

Perhaps some would say that the preference is hard wired into me, and therefore it is not a choice at all.  i don't have the expertise (or necessary data) to draw that conclusion.  So i will say that for me, it is a matter of choice with a definite preference.

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ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
What I'm saying is that in a place where we have the liberty to chose to be who we want to be to a large degree, we are making choices every day that define who we are.

So then this thread is about how wonderful the fact that we have choice in the first place is? See this is my issue, the 'point' has changed so much I have no clue what it is.

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But to address that issue, insofar as we have choice it is good, that many people have the freedom to live as themselves is wonderful, but not all of us have the liberty to choose to do things and very few of us get to decide who we are underneath, which was my point about chocolate and what seemed to be precisely what the op was about, yes who we are and what we do are not always the same thing.

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You said that you don't understand people who wish they were not what they are.

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I wish I was not bisexual I wish that I was not into wiitwd, I wish many things that are pretty unchangeable.

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No I don't have to have a relationship with a woman nor do I have to get into power exchange relationships, but my not getting involved in them does not stop the desire being there and meaning that anything other than being who I am leaves me dissatisfied.

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Life would be easier if that were not true.

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And my freedom of choice is hindered by more than law or social morality things are a little more complex than that

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I fail to see why anyone would chose to be gay. Things may be getting better but it is still a sucker's bet..Life is hard enough without unnecessarily adding things

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

See that is because you are flexible in your kink orientation. Some aren't. Have you ever read any posts by beth (of Mercandbeth) and perhaps others?

Perhaps the fact that I am flexible in my sexual orientation and in my kink orientation makes me see the fluidity in it all more than others. I will admit that bias, for sure.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Perhaps the fact that I am flexible in my sexual orientation and in my kink orientation makes me see the fluidity in it all more than others. I will admit that bias, for sure.

- LA

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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Life would be easier if that were not true.

Nah, you'd just focus more on other challenges I think.

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And my freedom of choice is hindered by more than law or social morality things are a little more complex than that

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I tend to agree with that statement. I would appreciate very much if you felt comfortable elaborating on it as well.

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people stating that they didn't chose a certain path -- being dominant, submissive, switch, vanilla, sado, maso, poly, gay, straight, bi, trans,
...
I actually have a hard time accepting that an able mind and bodied mature individual living in the Western World feels they aren't actively chosing their sexual, gender or kink orientation.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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I fail to see why anyone would chose to be gay. Things may be getting better but it is still a sucker's bet..Life is hard enough without unnecessarily adding things

There is actually studies done on men who spend long periods of time incarcerated who find gay relationships easier when they get out because it has become what they know.

- LA

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ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

See that is because you are flexible in your kink orientation. Some aren't. Have you ever read any posts by beth (of Mercandbeth) and perhaps others?

Perhaps the fact that I am flexible in my sexual orientation and in my kink orientation makes me see the fluidity in it all more than others. I will admit that bias, for sure.

Perhaps you are right.  However, i would wager that most Doms/Dommes have at some point gone vanilla when there was no submissive partner available (rather than spend an extended time alone and celibate).  During that time with the vanilla partner, they probably eventually bring up their kink and hope that their vanilla partner shows a level of interest.

In that situation, the Sadist or Dom/Domme has chosen to be vanilla.  It may not be the optimal situation for them, but they did choose to engage in a vanilla relationship, even if only temporary.  Doesn't that make them flexible in their kink orientation?

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Like i said, while we may have strong preferences, most of us are too damned horny to choose permanent celibacy rather than put our kink aside.  But i don't know Beth, so perhaps she would go the opposite way and choose permanent celibacy.

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Perhaps the fact that I am flexible in my sexual orientation and in my kink orientation makes me see the fluidity in it all more than others. I will admit that bias, for sure.

- LA

I think that flexibility might be the dividing line between the people posting who get where you're coming from, and the people going 'wha?!?'

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I'm someone with a little bit of flexibility. I make a terrible submissive, though, so the choices for me are kink/non-kink and girl/guy. I could live without kink quite happily, I reckon. I can see, however, that a lot of people can't. I can just about see myself in a long term relationship with a guy rather than a girl, but it's a push. Unlike 'to kink or not to kink', that doesn't feel like a choice-it feels like wiring.

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There is massive person-to-person variation in the responses to this thread-it looks like there's as big a spectrum as regards flexibility as the Kinsey scale or the kinky-meter.

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Interesting topic, Lady A.

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And to Jefff: my dad always told me that the definition of a gentleman is someone who knows how to play the banjo, but refrains.

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ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally
Bisexuality is an easy one to explain in personal and general terms why the choice is complex. Firstly there are the social issues, not simply morality but ideas of femininity and desires drilled into us since childhood, marriage babies, little semi with a garden and a dog, thats what middle class folks like myself are taught to want, and shrugging it off is less than easy.

Then there is the simple issues with bisexuality, the way that bisexual people are seen by both gay and straight people making finding a person matching you that little bit more difficult, on top of how hard it is in rural england to find anyone in the first place.

Then there is the personal impact, in that my mother is gay after sixteen years of marriage up and leaving myself my brother and sisters and obviously my dad, this is actually a great example in itself, yes she had the choice, the social constraints encouraged her to make the wrong choices and then when circumstances changed she made one to make herself happy at the expense of other people. I know my dads attitude to sexuality would mean my choices would impact on his view of me, be that right or wrong it is something that needs to be considered.

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We may 'chose' the path in the truest sense, but at the same time choices are not as easy as 'Yeah I will do that because I feel like it' for anyone other than a sociopath, we have to decide if who we are is more important than whatever the consequences might be, knowing that if the consequences are greater than the reward we will still suffer for quashing who we are.

I feel that I actively choose my actions but I do not actively choose my sexuality nor oriantation.

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

Twice so far I've acknowledged that some choices are really difficult to make. Some like getting gender reorientation surgery are major. I am really aware of this. But ultimately, we make a choice.

- LA

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ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

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Interesting topic, Lady A.

Aw thanks! I think it was a major pain in the ass for many, but that's ok. I like to be a pain in the ass with or without a cane and/or strap-on ;-)

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And to Jefff: my dad always told me that the definition of a gentleman is someone who knows how to play the banjo, but refrains.

I love it!!

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The thread really brought home to me that not everyone is flexible, and that a lack of flexibility isn't the same as prejudice or closed-mindedness; it's just wiring.

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I actually have a hard time accepting that an able mind and bodied mature individual living in the Western World feels they aren't actively chosing their sexual, gender or kink orientation.