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RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:02:47 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

(clipped)

A slave or submissive may choose to be a 'doormat', or a 'cloak' over a muddy pothole, 24/7 to their partner but feels no humiliation in doing so; indeed many feel Sir Walter Raleigh type pride. A confident proud 'doormat' is beautiful and a treasure to own even if others perceive it 'muddy'.

I've been out of the loop for a few days, and came back this morning to see this thread... and I have to say that this may be one of the most beautiful concepts I've yet seen expressed in praise of the "Happy Doormat".

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Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:06:49 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You continually assume "victims" who don't exist.

Sorry, I've got to call you on this.

The OP talks about "a restaurant". Not a kink-friendly one, not a restaurant late at night, not a restaurant in a community where minors can't go to restaurants.

Then the OP talks about "consequences".

So... I'm picturing a "restaurant". I really don't think it's unreasonable to assume there'll be minors in a "restaurant" at all.

Hence my take which identified the very real and likely probability that you'd find children in a restaurant. I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption - But I don't assume it will be true - I carefully preface my response with an "IF" - I do this because the response to the OP really does depend on the "if".

Just as "IF" you had ordered your sub to strip in full view of minors you would (quite rightly) face quite serious consequences. But "IF" you exercised your judgment and acted responsibly (which I'm sure you did) then there wouldn't be such serious consequences.

The "ifs" and "possibilities" are important as a way of exploring an issue.

quote:

That's because everything in this "argument" is either/or, a false dilemma with no possibilities in the middle.

That should trouble your radar for irrational arguments.

I don't see a "false dilemma" and I for one certainly would never deny that there are plenty of possibilities in the middle.

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:07:11 AM

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You really are not trying to follow this discussion so let me use your analogies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Sigh.

Folks---inventing silly hypotheticals can make anything ridiculous. What's the point?

The President is the Commander in Chief. What if he goes insane? Should there be a military coup? Perhaps we should add that to the Constitution. And who decides? Or can we trust he has better information?

Interesting topic. What if you enlisted after 9-11 to go get Saddam because the President linked him to the bombing. Were you duped? When you get blown up in Iraq, who is to blame? Who bears the consequences for taking the President at his word and thereby enlisting?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Forget slave for a moment. I'd expect the same obedience from an employee. No, not at once. I'd cultivate a culture of mutual benefit and trust. Then, I'd expect my team to obey first, ask questions later, and if I've successfully built that trust, they will.

Many employers in the past have shown that they didn't care enough about the welfare of their employees. So groups like Osha were started. Aside from putting your employees in harms way or breaking the law, any decision where you expect obedience you are the one that bears the responsibility and the consequences of their actions. They have little to lose by following your request.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery
If I tell a slave to do something, even if it doesn't make sense to her, I expect her to trust there must be a good reason. Or an employee. Or a soldier.

Now, if I start developing a pattern of nutty decisions, fine, different story.

But in this scenario? She'd better strip, and not even hesitate first.

If that makes a girl foolish to you, there's a world of vanilla waiting for you, no worries.

What if you made a mistake? Are you perfect? She is the one that bears all of the ramifications for any action that you demand. I am sure that you can recall many times in your life that you didn't use the best judgment in reaching a decision. What if this is one of those times?

The majority of women that I date have something to lose. They have careers, families, loved ones and a mind of their own. Not every request I would make should be followed. Just because I might want to see if a sub would strip in a public place does not mean that she should automatically heed my request. She is the one that inevitably will have to bear the responsibilties of her actions....Not me.

Now if I feel the situation is safe and under control and she still refuses then we probably will have a problem.

What if I didn't see the squad car or the other people? Shouldn't she point them out to me before simply following a request?

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RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:12:04 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Forget slave for a moment. I'd expect the same obedience from an employee. No, not at once. I'd cultivate a culture of mutual benefit and trust. Then, I'd expect my team to obey first, ask questions later, and if I've successfully built that trust, they will.

Setting aside the (large) assumption you've made - that you'd cultivate a culture of mutual benefit and trust - can I be clear...

If you ordered an employee to strip in a restaurant, would you expect them to obey, regardless of the consequences?

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:14:27 AM

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quote:

What if I didn't see the squad car or the other people? Shouldn't she point them out to me before simply following a request?

And here's the thing. More "What ifs."

Why wouldn't she point it out AND be ready to strip? We are, after all, preselecting for slaves. I also wouldn't do any of this to "test" a slave, but rather for a purpose at the moment.

This will just go on forever. You'd never even know the difference.

We all agree the OP is nutso. From there, it's a continual reframing.

(in reply to domiguy)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:16:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

We all agree the OP is nutso. From there, it's a continual reframing.

Yep! No controversy on that one!

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:16:44 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Forget slave for a moment. I'd expect the same obedience from an employee. No, not at once. I'd cultivate a culture of mutual benefit and trust. Then, I'd expect my team to obey first, ask questions later, and if I've successfully built that trust, they will.

Setting aside the (large) assumption you've made - that you'd cultivate a culture of mutual benefit and trust - can I be clear...

If you ordered an employee to strip in a restaurant, would you expect them to obey, regardless of the consequences?

Sigh. I was illustrating the pointlessness of endlessly proposing more "What ifs."

You respond by adding another.

Of course not. Why would an employee strip?

Now...to follow a work direction the employee didn't agree with that I didn't have to time explain that moment? Yes.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/24/2010 11:18:00 AM >

(in reply to crazyml)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:20:15 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

You continually assume "victims" who don't exist.

Sorry, I've got to call you on this.

The OP talks about "a restaurant". Not a kink-friendly one, not a restaurant late at night, not a restaurant in a community where minors can't go to restaurants.

Then the OP talks about "consequences".

So... I'm picturing a "restaurant". I really don't think it's unreasonable to assume there'll be minors in a "restaurant" at all.

Hence my take which identified the very real and likely probability that you'd find children in a restaurant. I don't think this is an unreasonable assumption - But I don't assume it will be true - I carefully preface my response with an "IF" - I do this because the response to the OP really does depend on the "if".

Just as "IF" you had ordered your sub to strip in full view of minors you would (quite rightly) face quite serious consequences. But "IF" you exercised your judgment and acted responsibly (which I'm sure you did) then there wouldn't be such serious consequences.

The "ifs" and "possibilities" are important as a way of exploring an issue.

quote:

That's because everything in this "argument" is either/or, a false dilemma with no possibilities in the middle.

That should trouble your radar for irrational arguments.

I don't see a "false dilemma" and I for one certainly would never deny that there are plenty of possibilities in the middle.

You feel it's not possible to look around for minors first? Or other people? Or assess the likelihood of someone seeing or arriving? Or having a plan in case they do?

Sounds pretty either/or from here.

(in reply to crazyml)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:24:47 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmys
You feel it's not possible to look around for minors first? Or other people? Or assess the likelihood of someone seeing or arriving? Or having a plan in case they do?

Sounds pretty either/or from here.

I really don't think we're far apart at all. Since I think you're implying that you would look around for minors or other people, that you'd asses the likelihood of someone seeing or arriving and that you'd have a plan in case they do.

I'm 100% with you on that - but I hope you'll forgive me for inferring that you would not make the request if there were minors present, if there was a likelihood of someone seeing or arriving, or if you didn't have a plan in case they did?

(in reply to Musicmystery)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:25:49 AM

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I'm with you there.

(in reply to crazyml)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:27:28 AM

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None of us are very far apart.

This is the genius of osf. An ambiguous post that at first seems anything but.

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(in reply to crazyml)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:31:58 AM

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Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

i find this all amazing and interesting in a humorous way

Dance, Minions, Dance!

(i'm so sorry, i just couldn't resist

)

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My blog is at http://takinghishand.wordpress.com

(in reply to osf)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:33:15 AM

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I hate osf.

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RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:36:12 AM

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Lets steal his goose. Imagine it on the grill.....wraped in bacon.....mmmmmmmm

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(in reply to domiguy)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:41:37 AM

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You know, the whole point of being an adult is that you have MORE rights than a minor. Including the right, if you damn well wish, to strip down to your essentials, emphasis on the word essentials. Sorry, the Nanny State doesn't have any laws forbidding a woman stripping down to her bra and panties in Subways, as long as that's where it stops.

To any oversensitive parents, I remind you that the responsibility for seeing that your kids receive a moral upbringing is YOURS - I didn't bring them into the world, you did, I already pay my taxes to school and feed them, so I'm sure as fuck not gonna be burdened with having to constrain my LEISURE. Sorry mums, not happening. Feel free to call the Manager, he'll explain the law to you. If you STILL don't want your kids exposed to human skin, please, pay the bill, and jog on.

< Message edited by Jaybeee -- 2/24/2010 11:42:41 AM >

(in reply to crazyml)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:43:20 AM

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Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

Lets steal his goose. Imagine it on the grill.....wraped in bacon.....mmmmmmmm

Mmmmmmmmmmm............baconnnnnnnnnnnn.

Helpful hint........do NOT cook bacon naked. Unless you are a masochist.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Jeffff)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:45:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
You know, the whole point of being an adult is that you have MORE rights than a minor.

Really? The adults I know, who have custody of their children, would tend to say they have more responsibilities than a minor.

Have you ever been responsible for anyone besides yourself?

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Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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(in reply to Jaybeee)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:48:30 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

None of us are very far apart.

This is the genius of osf. An ambiguous post that at first seems anything but.

I'll drink to that....but....really, must we roast the goose? It's so cute!!!

(in reply to Jeffff)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:51:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaybeee
You know, the whole point of being an adult is that you have MORE rights than a minor.

Really? The adults I know, who have custody of their children, would tend to say they have more responsibilities than a minor.

Have you ever been responsible for anyone besides yourself?

Yes, your point being?

(in reply to RedMagic1)

RE: If you told your slave - 2/24/2010 11:57:17 AM

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But, but....

What if....a secret group of voyeuristic billionaires caught wind of this, offering me a million dollar fee and several billion to whatever charities I chose, if they could only watch. Hell, they want to see her whipped, gagged on cock, bound and fucked too.

Here's the catch, though--the girl has to be in this situation honestly. If there's any sign she's tipped off, no deal. No fee, no charity. And the police in the group will arrest us. They want to see a girl, as far as she knows, actually in this situation, and how she'll respond. If she doesn't do it, we'll also be arrested on false charges. If I refuse, same thing.

I have several charities I'd like to benefit, and I'd welcome the permanent financial security and the freedom to do only the work I choose. They also aren't giving me any choice. They also threaten to pull all their existing charitable donations if this doesn't go off as they wish.

The night arrives. The restaurant is crowed and lively, backed with group members and their knowing guests, the restaurant owner and staff also members, the place closed, unbeknownst to the girl. Everyone is dressed and acting very proper.

Oh, and they're also holding my family and hers hostage--they will kill them immediately if this doesn't go off well.

When we arrive, she's wearing a low-cut, short dress, split on the sides, nothing else but heels. Provocative, but technically decent, especially for a booth in a dark corner somewhere. We're led to the only available table, a brightly lit one in the center of the restaurant, fully in view of the entire restaurant.

I almost forgot. Several school buses full of children are being held out back. If this doesn't happen the way the group wants, the kids will be brought in and gunned down instead.

"Can I get you something to drink?" asks the waitress. I can see she, too, is dressed provocatively, nothing underneath.

"Coffee for me, black," I order. "White wine for the girl."

"Yes Master" the waitress slips, rushing off to get the drinks.

I immediately turn to the slave. "Stand," I tell her. "Now. Right now." She stands and looks at me, obedient.

"Strip," I tell her, "and display yourself."

The restaurant is eerily silent suddenly, as the group waits to see which way the evening will go.

==What if enough?==

Even then, she's going to strip. This is a trained slave, used to obeying me. Not some girl off the street, and not some girl new to serving. Not a test for her. Not even hesitation. It's a learned trust, like training well any other creature. And no, that doesn't happen overnight. It takes time.

< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/24/2010 12:07:34 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)

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