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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 6:43:40 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		I follow the muse.

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 6:46:53 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I follow the muse.

You would change your drop-down menu to "Switch" and make a written addendum on your profile like real partners do on CM if it meant that much to you.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

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Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 6:50:15 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		DG is my friend and hop-bonded brother. You could say we are a CM success story. Except for the part were we don't play or have sex.

The muse is much more elusive.


Jeff

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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 6:56:28 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

DG is my friend and hop-bonded brother. You could say we are a CM success story. Except for the part were we don't play or have sex.

The muse is much more elusive.


Jeff


We are a success story. Our relationship is based upon mental attraction, We have common interests and right now we are really working on total orgasm denial.

Will this change in the future, who knows?

I want to be Jeffff's doormat.

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Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 6:57:59 PM   
SlaveSimone


Posts: 95
Joined: 3/17/2008
From: Denver, Co
Status: offline 		NZ,
You pose an interesting question that I'm having a hell of a time wrapping my head around. I think the reasons behind a person being that pliant are probably the real issue, but in some cases like Beths, it's possible that there really isn't an underlying  issue at all. I know that in times that I have partaken in  doormat like behavior I was feeling fear, helplessness, low self esteem, and a whole battery of other negative feelings that drove my actions, or inaction as it were, and that was where the real problem was.  However, I don't know that every doormat starts out that pliant, I think its possible to be strong and then broken down to the point where one feels totally helpless, in which case it's the situation that ultimately is the issue. 

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 6:59:09 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2298
Joined: 12/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I cain't quit you DG!

Not that I would presume a thread of mine should be any more immune to thread-jacking than any other, but after reading this thread...serious question dude:

When did you cross over from having meritous insight and intellectual offerings to this?



While it's not apparent, the humor/thread-jacks lends a degree of truth that applies to the topic. I wonder what kind smart ass things "George Carlin" would say on the topic of doormats.

Personally, I do not see a whole lot of submissives expressing deep desires to become a doormat on their profiles. It's mainly expressed by submissives that don't want to be treated as such. This is response to many of the emails and interactions with the proverbial asshole Doms. So the concept of a Doormat submissive is rather moot when applied to the General Audience. Again, most submissives are not advertising themselves as being doormats nor express a deep desire to be treated as such. Hence, why in my own thoughts, this topic is rather. How to politely say this, rather moot. It's my opinion, people are tripping over doormats here. Making things way more complex than needed.

If anything the concept of Doormat being tossed around, leads to some submissives feeling ashamed and questioning themselves. Doormat has a negative connotations. I personally think the Doormat label being tossed around causes more harm than good at times. I'd much rather make fun of the Doormat label any day then give it credence and honor.



< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/23/2010 7:07:15 PM >

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 7:08:53 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2298
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Status: offline 		I just revised and edited my previous post. In case anybody has already read it.

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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 7:16:11 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline 		I like it Whip..It conjures up thoughts of people I've had in my life before.
It also reminds me of a few friends and some people I like and admire on these boards..It just so happens that many others have issues with the term. I can't help that.




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submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

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Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 8:31:26 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2298
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
....a sub/slave in a relationship so trustworthy that demands made by hir D-type aren't even internally critiqued/questioned?


Perhaps I'm wrong but this seems to be the true topic at hand, however it was insulated by how the "the doormat" label was injected as a comparitive with negative connotations.

Now this can be rephrased to be as such;

"How much do or do not submissives question and critique what their Dominant wants?"

Instead you have submissives wondering if they should question and critique things out of fear of being labeled a doormat, because of the negative comparitive used to elicit responses.

With the use of this negative comparitive, the question perhaps could be rephased as such:

"Does the fear of being viewed as a doormat effect how much a submissive questions and critiques what their Dominant wants?"


< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/23/2010 8:42:19 PM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 8:40:21 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
....a sub/slave in a relationship so trustworthy that demands made by hir D-type aren't even internally critiqued/questioned?

Perhaps I'm wrong but this seems to be the true topic at hand, however it was insulated by how the "the doormat" label was injected as a comparitive with negative connotations.

Now this can be rephrased to be as such;

"How much do or do not submissives question and critique what their Dominant wants?"

Instead you have submissives wondering if they should question and critique things out of fear of being labeled a doormat, because of the negative comparitive used to elicit responses.

With the use of this negative comparitive, the question perhaps could be rephased as such:

"Does the fear of being viewed as a doormat effect how much a submissive questions and critiques what their Dominant wants?"



I'd be interested in  hearing the answers to that question but I see no need to work somethikng so grown adults can get over and issue. We all know as adults that there are both sides of the doormat claim..People will latch onto what they will based on their own prejudices or desires. You will always wind up with the negativity one way or another.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 2/23/2010 8:41:06 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Whiplashsmile4)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 8:41:35 PM   
Icarys


Posts: 5757
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
....a sub/slave in a relationship so trustworthy that demands made by hir D-type aren't even internally critiqued/questioned?

Perhaps I'm wrong but this seems to be the true topic at hand, however it was insulated by how the "the doormat" label was injected as a comparitive with negative connotations.

Now this can be rephrased to be as such;

"How much do or do not submissives question and critique what their Dominant wants?"

Instead you have submissives wondering if they should question and critique things out of fear of being labeled a doormat, because of the negative comparitive used to elicit responses.

With the use of this negative comparitive, the question perhaps could be rephased as such:

"Does the fear of being viewed as a doormat effect how much a submissive questions and critiques what their Dominant wants?"



I'd be interested in  hearing the answers to that question but I see no need to work something so grown adults can get over and issue. We all know as adults that there are both sides of the doormat claim..People will latch onto what they will based on their own prejudices or desires. You will always wind up with the negativity one way or another.

Edited cause CRAP lol I did it again.


< Message edited by Icarys -- 2/23/2010 8:43:06 PM >

_____________________________

submission - the feeling of patient, submissive humbleness - the state of being submissive or compliant; meekness.

Alaska Bound-The Official Countdown Has Started!
http://tinyurl.com/872mcu3
http://alturl.com/mog7m

(in reply to Icarys)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:05:36 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

If anything the concept of Doormat being tossed around, leads to some submissives feeling ashamed and questioning themselves. Doormat has a negative connotations. I personally think the Doormat label being tossed around causes more harm than good at times. I'd much rather make fun of the Doormat label any day then give it credence and honor.

It's an interesting point, true. Although, if we were to use it as precedent and try to rescind the use of words that etymologically have potential negative implications then we'd be in the same boat with "slave", wouldn't we?

It does ultimately seem to be a term that is used by some to describe a hypothetical situation in which one would consider themselves ashamed and/or in peril of being put into shame via their obedience.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:11:11 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveSimone

NZ,
You pose an interesting question that I'm having a hell of a time wrapping my head around. I think the reasons behind a person being that pliant are probably the real issue, but in some cases like Beths, it's possible that there really isn't an underlying  issue at all. I know that in times that I have partaken in  doormat like behavior I was feeling fear, helplessness, low self esteem, and a whole battery of other negative feelings that drove my actions, or inaction as it were, and that was where the real problem was.

That's part of what I'm getting at: do those things even enter into the picture if you're in the same state with someone who is actually complementary to you?



_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to SlaveSimone)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:16:51 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

What is the difference between a doormat and a sub/slave in a relationship so trustworthy that demands made by hir D-type aren't even internally critiqued/questioned?



My understanding of the word as defined in most dictionaries.


door·mat 
–noun
2.
a person who is the habitual object of abuse or humiliation by another.
Slang One who submits meekly to domination or mistreatment by others.

Most of the slaves/submissives I know personally submit proudly (honestly I don't know any MEEK submissives!), and I do not know of any who are the habitual object of abuse nor do I know any that are mistreated. 

I acknowledge there are most likely those who submit meekly, and accept mistreatmnt and/or abuse and fit happily into the role of doormat.  If they wish to be called that, I respect their choice to label themselves however they wish.  

What do I see as the difference between a doormat (someone who submits meekly to domination or mistreatment or is the habitual object of abuse or humiliation) and someone who is so trusting that he/she obeys without question?  

The presence or absence of meek acceptance of domination and/or habitual objectification, abuse and mistreatment.

Now that I have a headache from trying to make sense of all that, I'm off to bed.

WinD


< Message edited by WinsomeDefiance -- 2/23/2010 9:17:34 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:17:30 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not at all saying I happily take up the derrogatory or practical connotations. I mean that when people want to call what I do somehow weak, flawed, or wrong, I'd rather own it and find my own strength in the term. I fully realize the unpleasantries associated with the item and the term. I just don't find them relavent. I wouldn't have been a "happy doormat" about two years ago, but now, yeah, I know that if I tumble into that level of submission that it is safe and I will be cared for. It just doesn't mean the same thing anymore and what is left is a term that frankly makes me happy.

lovingpet


People often take the derogatory term applied to them and turn it on its head by embracing it for themselves... like I said, if people wanna do that, I am all behind that choice. I just do not appreciate some jerk saying that I am a doormat because in my relationship I defer to my partner and follow their lead. I do not think that you are a doormat, lovingpet, because if i were to meet you I would not wipe my feet on you... I do not think any person is a doormat, but then again I am an airy fairy liberal sorta gal. I acknowledge other people feel differently than me, and I respect their right to do so. All I am asking for is not to be labeled a doormat because of my relationship style...which is what happened in that other thread.. and I was jumped on for thinking it is unkind to do.. whatever


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RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:20:33 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Now that I have a headache from trying to make sense of all that, I'm off to bed.

Out of curiosity...

Why does Pooh have a tattoo of Woodstock on his forehead?


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

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Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:25:35 PM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: WinsomeDefiance

Now that I have a headache from trying to make sense of all that, I'm off to bed.

Out of curiosity...

Why does Pooh have a tattoo of Woodstock on his forehead?



Because he already had a tattoo of tigger on his ass..

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:31:48 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Because he already had a tattoo of tigger on his ass..

That should be worth some NZ points for sure!


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Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:48:24 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2298
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

If anything the concept of Doormat being tossed around, leads to some submissives feeling ashamed and questioning themselves. Doormat has a negative connotations. I personally think the Doormat label being tossed around causes more harm than good at times. I'd much rather make fun of the Doormat label any day then give it credence and honor.

It's an interesting point, true. Although, if we were to use it as precedent and try to rescind the use of words that etymologically have potential negative implications then we'd be in the same boat with "slave", wouldn't we?

Almost in the same boat as 'slave' but only in regards to the level of submission.

In essence "Doormat" combines two classic debates together; first being the submissive vs. slave debate. Second the what is or is not true abuse debate.

The origins of doormat in relation to BDSM, comes from submissives expressing way they don't want to be treated. General inference regarding a social acceptable treatments. Such as; that they are allowed to voice their thoughts and feelings, that they are human beings with limits and wish to be respected and treated with some form of basic human diginity. This is just a few examples that are generally inferred when somebody expressed they don't want to be treated like a doormat.

When a submissive is expressing that they don't want to be a Doormat, they are expressing a set of hard limits that is inferred or implied. Do you see the problem in trying to label somebody according to a generalized set of hard limits that govern how somebody wishes to be treated? Only to turn it around and use it as a label to guage how submissive everybody else is or not? This has very little to do with a sub/slave internally questioning their Doms wants or not.

quote:


It does ultimately seem to be a term that is used by some to describe a hypothetical situation in which one would consider themselves ashamed and/or in peril of being put into shame via their obedience.


< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/23/2010 10:07:28 PM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

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Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Doormats - 2/23/2010 9:55:22 PM   
Whiplashsmile4


Posts: 2298
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline 		I revised and edited my last post, yet again... damn...

< Message edited by Whiplashsmile4 -- 2/23/2010 10:00:32 PM >

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 100
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