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RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 10:32:06 AM

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quote:

All I am saying here is that everyone who cheats is aware that they are betraying someone who is or was very important in their lives, someone to whom they made a commitment. They really don't need to hear that they are doing something wrong. They know it.

Well said kitten. When i cheated yes i knew it was wrong, the guilt ate at me every day, and still does, but the desire and need to experience all this in real life overrode my rationality. I was faithful for 34 years and never thought i would be one to cheat. I didn't go looking for it, it came to me on another site when a local Dom i was chatting with asked to meet me. Do i regret it, no, because it changed my life and strengthened my marriage. Hubby was more upset with me for the lies than for the actual cheating. My only regret was not going to Him first to explain my desires. Like many on here, i just didn't think he would understand, but i was wrong. Since then our communication has opened up and our sex life has improved immensely. I guess i was very lucky.

< Message edited by proudsub -- 4/3/2006 10:48:13 AM >

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"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

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RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 10:42:58 AM

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This post is directed at no one in particular, and i'm just throwing this out for fun...sort of.

All of you who are saying that cheaters have no moral character and can not be trusted in any relationship...were you on that bandwagon with those who were saying Bill Clinton was no longer moral or ethical enough to run our country?

Or where are the lines drawn?

i am asking this tongue in cheek, mostly, but it does make a point, no? The irony of it all is i was on that bandwagon! Only to find myself in such a situation a few years later (although i didn't have a country to run, lol)

And no, i'm not turning this into a political debate. But a point was made earlier about cheaters being liars, thus opening Pandoras Box...thus drawing the question of what other lines are okay to cross. It made me think of the Clinton situation.

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 10:43:33 AM

METOO

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quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

All I am saying here is that everyone who cheats is aware that they are betraying someone who is or was very important in their lives, someone to whom they made a commitment. They really don't need to hear that they are doing something wrong. They know it.

Well said kitten. When i cheated yes i knew it was wrong, the guilt ate at me every day, and still does, but the desire and need to experience all this in real life overrode my rationalaity. I was faithful for 34 years and never thought i would be one to cheat. I didn't go looking for it, it came to me on another site when a local Dom i was chatting with asked to meet me. Do i regret it, no, because it changed my life and strengthened my marriage. Hubby was more upset with me for the lies than for the actual cheating. My only regret was not going to Him first to explain my desires. Like many on here, i just didn't think he would understand, but i was wrong. Since then our communication has opened up and our sex life has improved immensely. I guess i was very lucky.

Well said PS, unfortunately I think your experience and results are very much the exception rather then the rule. Key is, that at some point, that indisgretion was faced, by both parties. More often then not, that communication never occurs. It winds up as an ugly parting of ways. Bottom line is that, initiallly that communication should have occurred and the situation could have been avoided. Problem is with the examples illustrated within this thread, more often then not that communication never occurs and the result becomes bitterness as compared to the friendship that initially brought the two together.

In my case I can't seem to get that communication to be a two way street

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 10:49:51 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: METOO

Problem is with the examples illustrated within this thread, more often then not that communication never occurs and the result becomes bitterness as compared to the friendship that initially brought the two together.

In my case I can't seem to get that communication to be a two way street

...as opposed to my case where i did communicate and it turned into ugly bitterness...One never knows unless one lives in the same house/shoes/relationship. i do see and understand the points made about communication, and i am not trying to deliberately challenge them. But there is another side to this. Not all parties have partners who are so accepting. And if they are not, then what? Another box of worms, i am afraid. Leave your spouse and tear a child's family apart? Live with the distrust and skepticism of a spouse, which has now occurred because you told him/her? Suppress who you are and try to squelch the drive that is screaming inside you?

i don't have the answers. i only understand it is a terribly difficult issue.

(in reply to METOO)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 11:22:41 AM

METOO

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So have I tried to communicate and unfortunately, thus far that communication is not a two way thing. I DO live in the same house

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 11:26:16 AM

FelinePersuasion

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That's not very sound practices, I have over 6 emails all for diffrent reasons, none decietfull, I just don't want spam in my personal boxes
and it's easy and they're free emails. Emailing someone "from their group" in the lifestyle could just mean simply they made up fake emails and are pretending to be someone you think is someone else.

How do you know that who you think is domina alphabet, isn't really me pretending to be DA.

Emails and online are not proof of the pudding so to speak.

And certaintly not 100 percent reliable.

T o help you determine if they are real or not; once you are interested and talking ask to be allowed to email with other lifestyle people they have been involved with. If they belong to a bdsm play or munch group are there folks who will chat with you?

The largest issue i see here is your profile. You are looking for a partner yet you are advertising simply for a slut. You cannot engage in sex play 24/7. Even there your profile is deficient.

Try listing your likes and dislikes, both sexual and vanilla. Make some journal entries about your life goals, what you are looking for.

If your profile had popped up during my search i would have passed it over immediately due to lack of information.

Remember it takes time. Out of all the people i came into contact with online i actually only went to meet six. Of those i made good friends with two, an occasional play partner out of one, turned the rest down period.

Completely by accident one day my current owners profile popped up. Granted he is married, as his wife also had a profile here that was not an issue.

Both their profiles were well filed out; both had journal and forum posts i could read to get a feel for who they were. After the initial contact, lol, he actually made me so angry with his 1st response i blasted right back at him, we began a fast and furious email campaign. This progressed to phone contact. Eventually i traveled 2000 miles to meet them. Go read my profile and theirs (ScooterTrash, ShiftedJewel, PhoenixRisen ) after much searching on all three of our parts, safe to say this is a perfect match all the way around.

[/quote]

(in reply to twicehappy)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 11:56:29 AM

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I have a favor to ask of feline and others who post the quote they are replying to at the bottom of their reply. It would be much easier to follow your reply if you would post the quote at the top. Thanks.

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"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 11:58:32 AM

FelinePersuasion

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Nope, that's not cheating or lying in my mind, they've said do what you need to however I don't wish to know of it or be a part of it. They have signed off on what ever it is their mate will do

quote:

ORIGINAL: Angeni

Greetings :)
This post is in no way directed at anyone.
I, too, read through all the replies here with a sense of humor on my part. So much anger revealed. My opinions on the concept of lying and cheating are my own, and they will remain so. I would like to share something though. The general consensus seems to be that if your partner does not know of your 'other' relationships, then it is just that; lying and cheating. Please correct me if I am wrong. But, what would it be when your partner states quite clearly that he/she does NOT want to know of your indiscretions? They are not actually giving the go ahead for you to have other relationships, they are just stating that they do not want to know of them. Is that still lying and cheating?

(in reply to Angeni)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 11:59:01 AM

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If somneone cheats on you then you aren't very important in their life although you might be prominent so the best thing to do is just get over it and move on. All this hot air isn't going to change human nature no matter how indignant one gets.

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 12:03:22 PM

FelinePersuasion

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ok Sure thing! I read that after I posted my other quote hahaha.

(in reply to proudsub)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 12:13:38 PM

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Just my personal opinion but I don't care if someone is married. I have plenty of married friends. But, they need to be upfront with me about it. I am not looking to enter into a relationship with someone marrie and will not knowingly do so. That is an eliminator for me. Plus, I don't care if the wife knows and encourages them to seek outside of the marriage. It is my choice to not enter into a sexual relationship. It is the dishonesty and lying about being married that bothers me, not the fact that someone is married.

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 12:14:03 PM

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"This post is directed at no one in particular, and i'm just throwing this out for fun...sort of." (Borrowed from ownedgirlie)

Maybe we can make a short list of reasons is to justification cheating:
-Decide you prefer blonds versus brunets and your spouse won't color their hair.
-Spouse is in a car accident and can't "perform".
-Vaginal dryness
-Erectile dysfunction
-Spouse gains weight
-Spouse losses weight
-Age
-Decided that "big tits" were a MUST.
-Male pattern baldness
-Droopy breasts.

Okay - fun's over.

You haven't lost anything by being "honest" with your spouse. The "burning desire" will not be effected. If money or social status is more important to you than living a lie, you're depreciating yourself and those around you. Your making the "fling", the new sexual experience, the new person; more important than the people around you who you are betraying. Communicating your desires, communicating them with the importance that indicates you can not deny them, will be cathartic to you and your relationship. The spouse may or may not react pragmatically and deal with the problem, but you have done your best. Are you still cheating if after this disclosure your spouse is disinterested and says to you; "fine - go out and have a great time. It's not for me." Physically yes, but on a more important level, emotionally, mentally, no, in my opinion you haven't betrayed your spouse under those circumstances. It could even be argued that the spouse is as guilty of betraying their commitment to a healthy evolving relationship.

Having a life partner doesn't require them to be accepting of a new itch you want to scratch; but I would think the relationship would require an honest disclosure, followed by honest discussion regardless of the conclusion. If not, what is the partnership, a convenient merger of material goods, services, and a socially acceptable manner to procreate? Maybe more enjoyment will come from the not having to deal with the guilt. If you have no guilt then it should be no problem in disclosing it.

"Vows" have no meaning so some. Or they have expiration dates. Or they are only followed in good times. My question to the people who become enablers to those with a spouse. How do you go into the relationship with any degree of confidence? It would be illogical to expect a person showing disrespect to their vows to commit to long term respect of a commitment to me. The least argued thread are the fundamental principles of a long term "lifestyle" relationship. Most often they boil down to Trust, Honesty, Communication, Confidence, in some combination. Starting a relationship with someone who is cheating on a spouse and they've exhibited ignoring all of them in their current commitment. You are relying on them to change those traits concerning you. Is a person more or less likely to change after a relationship has been consummated?

Some decisions are situations are difficult because they are supposed to be difficult. Avoiding them is a sign of weakness. People really do have the answers, they just don't like them. We are in an age of instant gratification. Actually the problem isn't wanting instant gratification, it's wanting instant personal gratification to the detriment of everyone else who, at one point, were the most important things in your life. Until you discovered this new "most important thing". Until the next "most important thing" comes down the road.

Morals and morality shouldn't be subject to selective application. The equivalent for the western religion followers among us, would be the "Ten Commandments" being renamed the "Ten Suggestions"; to be followed when it's convenient.

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 12:16:51 PM

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quote:

All of you who are saying that cheaters have no moral character and can not be trusted in any relationship...were you on that bandwagon with those who were saying Bill Clinton was no longer moral or ethical enough to run our country?

::chuckles:: The difference here is that I don't 'expect' politicians to have morals or ethics and I do expect that of my husband. If a politician is speaking, I'm automatically assuming that whatever s/he says is a lie so any good that comes out of any administration is always a pleasant surprise.

edited to rephrase: I don't 'expect' morals and ethics from my husband.. I require them. :) Yes, much better.

Celeste

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 4/3/2006 12:20:43 PM >

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

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RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 12:17:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

So why then is there thread after thread of condemnation toward those people who are, quite possibly, making a mistake while trying to "get by" in their obviously difficult situations? That is the part that baffles me.

Because, we hold ourselves up to an ideal that is greater than ourselves. We hold ourselves to move towards prefection in the hopes of being a better person. I question if didn't have something to strive for...would we grow and improve who we are.... or would we just stagnant and fall into darkness.

It has been my experience that people way to often justify to themselves to take the easy road of moral inadequacy as compared to the moral high ground. For some it is not a question of doing their best in the given situation, it finding the easiest way to get what they want.

I recall several years ago a submissive that came into a chat room. She was craving to learn and excited to experience the lifestyle. She was about to throw away over 25 years of married life. I asked one simple question to her... are happy with him? It take long for her to answer with a yes. after alot of talk over a few weeks.... she found the courage to share her desires with him. I was fortuanate to meet them both not long after that and see them again from time to time. Each time I see them, I get a hug and thank you from her.

To often we sell ourselves short! We look at the mountain and do not believe we can climb that mountain. We are only focused on the valley on the other side and are looking for the easy path to get to it. Sometimes the only moral path is over the mountain and no other path is justifiable. I can have deep compassion for those that in a moral quandary or are in a situation that very much puts there principles and well-being in direct conflict with one another. These situations are special and require not just compassion but a wisdom to appreciate the situation. However, these situation thou they occur are not all that common.

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RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 12:26:03 PM

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I guess I am just one of the odd ones. Why stay in one relationship, just to seek outside of it. Staying for the sake of the kids? Or, wait, the one I like is "I really love her, she just isn't into the things I am.

And then the occasional "She/He knows that I am seeking and gives me her/his permission to seek.

Cry me a fucking river! It's selfishness. It's stupid. Cheaters.....Boo to them.

The day I give over to allow the one that owns me to search for others, is the day I take a bumble bee enema. Bitter? Party for one, your table is now ready!

(in reply to urnotworthy)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 12:26:36 PM

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Rob and I started off our relationship like most other couples in their early twenties, lol flailing around blindly and trying everything to see what worked for us. I came into our relationship as an openly bisexual woman and he came in as a slightly commitment phobic open minded guy *s* One day a friend of mine asked me bluntly if she could f*** Rob, it took me a few minutes to wrap my head around what she was asking and beleive that she was serious. The three of us sat down to talk about it. Rob, being my ever horny husband *ss* had no problems with this *S* I was the one with a few hesitations. She was beautiful, thin, intellagent, had a career and was the same age as me... Would he replace me? After all I was 21 and we had been together for about a year at this point. Rob and I talked privatly about it, and we both agreed that the only hesitation I had was that she was fairly new to my life as well, we had been visiting and having coffee at the local cafe for only two months before this came up.

I had no problem seeing Rob with another woman, I felt it was only fair after all since I like girls too *s* I set one rule tho for the first night. No actual intercourse (boy was I setting myself up for failure *s*) she was going to spend the night with use but I wasn't ready for sex . Mhm well, three in the morning I wake up to some intresting sounds from the living room. Needless to say I freaked when I got up, not because I saw my boyfriend having sex with another woman, but because I had asked them not to. Was it cheating? No, I knew about them, I was fine with sharing Rob. It came down to one of those situations that you learn from. Not everything is going to be perfect in any relationship. We started out as (shiver,I hate this term) swingers, my friend actually ended up moving in with us and the three of us were in a poly relationship for over two years before she moved on.

50% of marriages in the US end in divorce. That is a staggering number, infedelity is one of the biggest reasons behind this number. I think the best thing you can do is ask yourself "can I tell my significant other what I am doing?" if the answer is no(aside from the obvious, it's a present, or suprise later for them) then you need to think about your actions. I don't need to know everything that Rob is doing and vice versa, but if I do something that I feel I couldn't tell him, then I have to wonder what my motivations are.

sorry for the ramble but I wanted to share a 'swinger's perspective on 'cheating... btw if anyone tells you it's equal cheating, tell them they need to do a bit of research.

denika

< Message edited by denika -- 4/3/2006 12:31:59 PM >

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 12:29:04 PM

MistressSassy66

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Your post makes Me think of the saying "Advice is what you ask for,when you already know the answer".

I agree cheating is not a good thing.Being on both sides of that coin Myself,I can honestly say things could have been done differently.But We all make mistakes.Own the mistake and move on.
I dont think less of someone because they cheated.I might even try to help them set things right.

_____________________________

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http://www.mistresssassy.com

In the Immortal Words of Bob....Fuck the dumb shit.

"I love you not only for what you are,But for what I am when I'm with you."- Opening line from a poem by Roy Croft

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RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 1:15:57 PM

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quote:

The day I give over to allow the one that owns me to search for others, is the day I take a bumble bee enema

LOL, sorry this made me laugh, maybe a new thread should be started on bumble bee enemas.

_____________________________

proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan

(in reply to alexus)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 1:23:13 PM

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people lie on line? NO WAY

(in reply to fyreredsub)

RE: Forgot you have a wife?? - 4/3/2006 1:41:42 PM

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KoM i continue to see eye to eye with you here. Yes, we all strive to meet a higher standard, and personally speaking, i am deeply troubled when i do not. i guess having been in one of those difficult cases you referred to, my capacity for compassion for others is greater than it previously was.

In my case, i did not want to cheat. i loved my husband. i still love him. i didn't want to hurt him (that is a large part of the reason i stayed for as long as i did, right or wrong). But i was dying inside. i didn't go outside solely to fulfill a need for submission. There were many, many factors which drove me out, first and foremost was the lack of acceptance of anything i was. i stated before, cheating, for me, was symptomatic of a very big problem, having nothing to do with D/s at all.

If i could do it all over again, i likely would not have married him. If only i knew i was submissive when i got married; if only i knew what that ache was in my gut, which drove me to constantly want to do for him, to please him, to appeal to him. If only i didn't lose myself in the process of trying, when nothing i did was right, or accepted, or wanted. Woe is me, right? No, not really. Why not leave, as so many have said? Why does any battered woman (emotionally or physically) not leave? Leaving meant admittance that i could not be who i needed to be. Admittance that i could not please. Admittance that i was a failure. i had tried everything - psychotherapy, antidepressants, hypnosis, several "specialized" doctors, and extensive marriage counseling with a nationally renouned Ph.D/Marriage Counselor from the Gottman Institute.

In many ways i am glad so many do not understand. That means they haven't gone through it. If everyone here made claim that i was a cheater and therefore not worth knowing, or spending time with, or talking to, or trusting...well i can handle that now. i have risen above myself and found my esteem, confidence, and strength. i perservered. Two years ago if i came across the lynch mob mentality i so often see on this subject? i would have driven off a cliff. Most peopole in such situations don't want to be in them. Most are not strong enough to "do the right thing." Funny, i used to really abhor weak people.....even more so when i was one.

lol not sure what my point is here, but it was awfully therapeutic to write it all out!!

(Edited to add: Divorce was also breaking my vow, which played another huge part in why i stayed. So either way, i lost something. Either myself, or my marriage.)

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 4/3/2006 1:46:57 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)

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