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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/21/2010 2:50:45 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

In this lifestyle it certainly doesn't need to be about looks.
With all due respect, Maria: I've met you. You're utterly gorgeous. It's very easy for a gorgeous person to say 'it's not about looks'.

I'd hazard a guess that the loss of attention was due to unavailability-men (in the generic) won't chase what they know they can't have. So looks could still be a necessary but not sufficient condition to have that power, without altering your experiences-you have to be beautiful AND potentially available. So then it's about both those things...



Thanks VaguelyCurious you have made my day but I need to add that you are totally stunning as well as young and confident

I do know some older Dommes. The one that immediately comes to mind is in her 60s a size large, walks with a stick because of swollen ankles and often brings her knitting to the LAM!
She still gets a fare share of attention from submissive guys and she has 2 (less than half her age) foot slave males.
She didn't have to stop being dominant because she grew old and lost those much sort after, youthful looks. She's retirement age but still at it and still being made to feel good about herself.

Thats a far cry from vanilla land but then vanilla land is more about straight sex and so its understandable that the beatiful and young are much more sort after.

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/21/2010 4:07:43 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz
I most certainly don't feel desirable anymore.


This is wrong.

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/21/2010 4:25:49 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

I think Peon's on to something.



*Chuckle* I don't that pic's got it right, though. The 'before make-up' one would look like a group of broomsticks. Every time I see Victoria Beckham these days I feel an urge to cook deep-fried lardballs in batter with a double cream topping.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 5/21/2010 4:26:11 AM >


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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/21/2010 4:41:19 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: MarcEsadrian

I think Peon's on to something.



*Chuckle* I don't that pic's got it right, though. The 'before make-up' one would look like a group of broomsticks. Every time I see Victoria Beckham these days I feel an urge to cook deep-fried lardballs in batter with a double cream topping.


This made me laugh!
Why does that woman have such a shiny face? All that money and we can still see our reflection in her face. I often wonder if she actually likes that glossy look!

Also to add; it doesn't bother me that I'm no longer 'desirable' to submissive men. So long as I still get the occasional hoot or that double take whilst walking round town, I know I'm not all that bad! Men used to want me for my dominance, now they might just want me because they like the look of me.
What I was trying to say was; if you come on here as a dominant, its the equivalent to being seen driving a Lamborghini. When you come on here as a swith, its equivalent to being seen driving a Fiat Punto One gets noticed, the other one doesn't!


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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/21/2010 5:01:35 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Also to add; it doesn't bother me that I'm no longer 'desirable' to submissive men.



This remains wrong.

However, submales are more likely these days, I'd say, to look at your partner and think, 'What's he got that I haven't got?'

I've got no idea about Victoria Beckham's shiny face. Maybe she thinks it's greasy and scrubs it too dry. I used to do that - the shinier it got, the harder I washed it - which would only make it shinier.



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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/21/2010 6:44:31 AM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

Once I declared myself a switch with a partner, I suddenly became unatractive. Guys that had previously been attentive to me, were no longer interested. The funniest part was on forums like this. When I was 'dominant' I had a certain number of submissive guys that hung off every word I said. They gave me power, they defended me to the hilt but now I get very little respect off submissive guys on here, some will even try to bully me and I most certainly don't feel desirable anymore.

In response to the bolded portions...were you unattractive or unattainable?  Was your attractivness tied to your dominance only or did it have something to do with the availabity of your dominance?  Did you lose your "power" because they no longer fed off your dominance?  Do you feel less desirable because of the lack of attention given by submissive men?  Why? 
Sorry...I don't mean to bombard you with questions (even though I just did) but your post has me wondering about the power men give to women and if it's the same as the power they (men) believe women posess. 

When I go to clubs and parties now, I no longer have a bunch of guys hankering over me. I can look over at dominant women of all age, shapes and sizes and watch with amusement at the huge amount of attention they are given. I think to myself, wow I used to be like that a short time ago and all that attention did make me feel good about myself. Becoming a switch, dressing down and letting everyone know that I am not here to dominate has been the quickest way of making myself powerless and unattractive!
 
As another switch, I have a hard time accepting the last statement.  Since I've come to terms with my own switchiness, I've become more able to look beyond the roles or labels people assign to themselves and others.  That fluidity may be unattractive to others but I, personally, don't see it as an unattractive trait in myself.
Maybe I just misread you and you were talking tongue in cheek...if so, please disregard.



edited for clarity

< Message edited by CarrieO -- 5/21/2010 6:47:15 AM >


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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/21/2010 9:43:31 AM   
allthatjaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

In response to the bolded portions...were you unattractive or unattainable?  Was your attractivness tied to your dominance only or did it have something to do with the availabity of your dominance?  Did you lose your "power" because they no longer fed off your dominance?  Do you feel less desirable because of the lack of attention given by submissive men?  Why? 
Sorry...I don't mean to bombard you with questions (even though I just did) but your post has me wondering about the power men give to women and if it's the same as the power they (men) believe women posess. 


As another switch, I have a hard time accepting the last statement.  Since I've come to terms with my own switchiness, I've become more able to look beyond the roles or labels people assign to themselves and others. That fluidity may be unattractive to others but I, personally, don't see it as an unattractive trait in myself.
Maybe I just misread you and you were talking tongue in cheek...if so, please disregard.





I think what I wrote has just confused people and so I will try to clarify what I mean.
I feel no less attractive than what I did when I was on here as a Domme. My partner compliments me every day and I don't need a bunch of submissive guys writing to me to make me feel good about myself.
I do recognize through observation however, that once I changed to switch, the mails virtually stopped and so did the compliments. I had a partner and of course that could be something to do with it too but then when I was on here as a Domme I also had a partner and that was clearly stated in my profile. The partner bit never stopped the submissive men then, so why now?
I totally accept that a submissive man wants a woman he believes to be purely dominant. Some even believe that switches are fake and certainly not the real McCoy and so to many switch men, Switches are not very attractive and certainly shouldn't be taken seriously. Another change was on the forums. I don't write any different now than I did back then but there has been a change of response or lack of it from the very guys that used to hang off every word I said. That does not make me feel unattractive but makes me realize that I am no longer attractive to them. I am no longer powerful to them but that doesn't make me powerless!! Believe me, I'm cool with that because its only an interested observation by me.

It was a misreading but then I am always confusing people! The words I have changed to red from your post is very much how I feel about myself.

Not sure why all my text has come out in bold.


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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/21/2010 10:42:18 AM   
CarrieO


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quote:

ORIGINAL: allthatjaz

That does not make me feel unattractive but makes me realize that I am no longer attractive to them. I am no longer powerful to them but that doesn't make me powerless!!

 
Thanks, I kind of thought I had misunderstood.  The quoted part above is what I think ties into the topic of this thread.  The "natural power" that the OP refers to, in my opinion, comes from self-awareness and self-confidence.  Those are traits that take time to develop so the idea of that power (using my definition for my answer) being innate seems inaccurate.  The OP, however, seems to suggest the power is sexually based which I still feel requires a certain amount of self-awareness. 

Not appearing as powerful to a certain group doesn't make a person powerless...unless they choose to allow the opinions of others to affect them that way.  This, imo, is why the older domme you mentioned was able to continue as usual.  It sounds as though she refused to accept the preconcieved notion that older=powerless.  That so rocks!   
 
quote:


Not sure why all my text has come out in bold.


Maybe because you were speaking boldly!

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/22/2010 8:45:14 PM   
beardsley


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Ever since I first heard the Siren's Song of dominant women, I marvelled at the power of the response I felt. Long have I wondered - why was the desire I felt so strong? I have come to believe that males' urge for female domination stems in many cases from unresolved Oedipal desires.

Consider: Here's the new mother and her baby boy. He is the object of her focus, her attention. She feeds him, comforts him when he doesn't feel well, cleans him up when he poops or pisses, bathes him.

For him, every contact with her is delight. She touches him intimately, she's warm and soft, her loving touch is comforting, satsifying his every desire, fulfilling evey need. Her voice is music, he loves to hear her praise.

She is big, he is small.
He is helpless, she is all-powerful.
Her attention is like the sunshine. He basks in her glow.
Her affection and care are like the ocean.
He wants this forever.

But the father begins to demand more of mother's time and attention. The boy begins to sense the father as a competitor. He wants father OUT of the way so that he - the boy - can have mothers attention all to himself. But father is bigger, stronger. His demanding voice is harsh, and mother accedes more and more to father's will, at the expense of the boy's desire.

Now, let's say that at this point, a sibling is born; boy or girl, it doesn't matter. Mother is busy with the new baby. The young boy has lost his place in the center of mother's universe. For him, it is the loss of the golden glow, he no longer basks in her attention. He is like Adam cast of out Paradise, stumbling into a cold, harsh, dark world.

Too young to be able to verbalize this, he nonetheless is filled by a great longing to regain the bond he had with Her - a great desire to have - no, to possess - the mother's attention and to be, as we might say now, DOMINATED by her again in that global way. He wants to possess her - so that he might again be her prized possession.

This longing, this desire, this WANT is unverbalized; but it's always there in the background, monitoring every relationship he has with females. Indeed, this longing is just like a program running in the background on a computer. It is always scanning the environment, looking for cues that might signal a restoration to maternal Eden.

And, when puberty kicks in, his orientation toward females is compounded by testosterone's raging desires. He begins to meld and mesh the unspoken feelings for mother with the sexual feelings he now experiences toward girls.

What is happening, then, when an adult male submits to a woman? First, his emotions must make the identification of her with the maternal ideal. There must be enough matches between the would-be dominant female and the goal set up in his 2-year old (let's say) emotional structure. And there must be few enough mismatches that the identification of the potential domme with Mother is not cancelled out.

Second, the potential domme must encourage him to drop the trappings of male adulthood and move back into the being of the 2 year old. He must set aside enough his adult sense of self, his adult sense of what is socially acceptable, his adult sense of independence and self reliance. This can sometimes be a difficult step for him, as the gains of maturity were hard won during the struggles of adolescence. An uneasy tension may exist between his two-year old and his adult beings.

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/22/2010 9:00:33 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Ummm...yeah. You know that Freud isn't the fashion anymore, right?

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/22/2010 9:02:47 PM   
Lockit


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Infantile urges, followed by resentment of others in a mother's life and lifetime issues amount to unresolved issues and submissive men? Whoa, let me the fuck outta here if that's the case. I don't want to resolve all the issues of a lifetime while he takes comfort in a lil domme mommy resolution.

I do not view submissive men as infantile in emotion or damaged by mommy dearest and life in general, no matter the family dynamic's.If he's trying to replace his mommy with a sexy domina, he might bypass my profile because I want no part of of it.

That is the saddest excuse/reason for male submission and the poorest/unhealthiest example of the domina/male submissive dynamic I have ever heard.


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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/22/2010 9:05:50 PM   
laurell3


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It has to be a full moon week or something. The number of people logging on cm to tell us we're all fucked up this week is astounding.

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/23/2010 4:48:32 AM   
PeonForHer


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Beardsley,

Whoa! While Freud might be out fashion, as Lady Hib says, that was still pretty thought-provoking. Dommes routinely refer to submales as 'boys' here. (Though said 'boys' seldom refer to dommes as 'Mums' or 'Mummies'. It seems more acceptable for femsubs to refer to their menfolk as 'Daddies'. Heh. I wonder why?)

One thing I've always felt very edgy about regarding D/s is infantalism - the thought that I could, if I were to let things go that far, give up more of my hard-won 'adulthood' than would be good for me, nor any partner I'm with. I do NOT want to see myself as regressing in any way, long term. Small doses, now and then, in scenes - fine. Controlled and measured. Feels good and no doubt is good for the psyche. You talk of 'tension' neutrally (I think) - but people generally see that as a bad thing. I don't.

One major question: while it's pretty clear what Freud would think about submale desires to submit, what would he say about femdoms' desires to dominate? Maybe you're better off providing links than expounding something that looks too much like it's your own stuff, though. You don't want to create *too* many enemies here.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 5/23/2010 4:49:29 AM >


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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/23/2010 6:05:39 AM   
CarrieO


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I had a feeling at some point Freud would be brought into this.

As someone who enjoys being maternal and nurturing (albeit in a twisted way ) I still have no interest in infantile men...which is different than being able to express a child-like sense of wonderment and willing to express vulnerability.



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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/23/2010 6:40:23 AM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

What is happening, then, when an adult male submits to a woman? First, his emotions must make the identification of her with the maternal ideal. There must be enough matches between the would-be dominant female and the goal set up in his 2-year old (let's say) emotional structure. And there must be few enough mismatches that the identification of the potential domme with Mother is not cancelled out.

Second, the potential domme must encourage him to drop the trappings of male adulthood and move back into the being of the 2 year old. He must set aside enough his adult sense of self, his adult sense of what is socially acceptable, his adult sense of independence and self reliance. This can sometimes be a difficult step for him, as the gains of maturity were hard won during the struggles of adolescence. An uneasy tension may exist between his two-year old and his adult beings.


To discuss my full thoughts on this would have taken this thread way too far off topic, and therefore, I started a new thread to discuss this issue: http://www.collarchat.com/m_3218305/tm.htm.

- LA


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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/23/2010 6:56:59 AM   
insearch0f


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quote:

ORIGINAL: insearch0f




Lady Ellen this is for you: you say men give women the power that makes them weak well I'm here to
say never would a dude in his youth ever consciously choose to go thru all that physical frustation over not being able to sleep
with a woman. Don't you remember how tortureous and frustating it was to sit alone on
weekends and only dream of being able to find a girlfriend, he'll if I could of turned that drive off that made me long for
a warm soft woman I would of. It consumed me so bad it hurt.


Tell you what, males have and will always compete with one another for female attention but they never get to do the choosing because it's the women that do the choosing. Peon if you ever come back as a woman, you'll get to experience that advantage. But for now, don't let that fact get you down my man.

< Message edited by insearch0f -- 5/23/2010 7:04:03 AM >

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/23/2010 6:58:00 AM   
insearch0f


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

Not so.  Study after study confirms that men are unable to think clearly in the presence of a beautiful woman.  We are unable to make good judgments.  Our math skills fall off dramatically.  Even our brain chemistry and hormone secretions are measurably altered.  We do not lend that power to women.  Nature gave it to them.  You can deny it all you want, but that does not alter the facts.


Funnily I agree. Hormones man.

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/23/2010 7:03:29 AM   
insearch0f


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slavekal

Physical beauty alone is not everything.  It sure does help, though.  However, a semi attractive woman who knows how to use her natural gifts will trump a drop dead gorgeous Playmate of the Year who is clueless.  There are many older, not really beautiful dommes who could enslave me in a heartbeat because they have the skill and the will. 
To deny that women have power over men based on our desire for them is PC nonsense.  All it takes is a casual look around to see that male models make far less money than female models.  There is no male equivalent to Pam Anderson or Kim Kardashian...famous just for being hot.  There is one strip club with male dancers for about a thousand with female ones.  Men pay for most dates.  Songs are written for female beauty.  The Taj friggin' Mahal was built because of a man's love for a woman.  Men are admired for strength and abilities, not beauty so much. 



I agree especially in the bold. That worst picture peon can find of pam anderson still wont change the fact that woman can get up out of bed throw on a pair of jean shots and flip flops and a white t shirt and still have men fall over themselves around here. Mostly everything men do from technology, inventions, literature, music, art and shows of physical strength stem from matting displays to get and attract female attention.


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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/23/2010 8:30:00 AM   
ReginaMirus


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Oh, yeah. And as a relative newbie, I've made that mistake more times that I care to admit. By calling him "boy", I've relegated myself to being his MOTHER in the relationship. Personally, I want a MAN, not a boy. I think for me, that's going to build a stronger, longer lasting foundational relationship than one based upon a Mommy/boy dynamic.

But that's just me. Others I'm sure will think differently. Viva la difference...

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RE: The natural power that women have over men... - 5/23/2010 9:25:47 AM   
slavekal


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I completely disagree with the Oedipal stuff...and I am a psychologist.  My tastes in female dominance could not be farther removed from mommy scenarios.  In fact, as a middle aged guy, I find nothing hotter than the bratty type girl half my age seducing me into slavery.  Diapers, corner time, over the knee spankings, and the like really turn me off.

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