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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

She is a slave as I use the term, however, she isn't a slave in the historical sense. I just laugh at the people who compare the two as if they are in any way related.

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(edited to add, those bastards are in Italy right now living it up. Not only that, they used up all the good weather in Los Angeles and left me with rain, I mean this is LA in May for gods sakes.)

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Thanks Jeff! The ownership you have over Carol is the complete opposite of ownership in any of the old sense of the word slave, which was my point. In that form of slavery it works the opposite, the farther from society you go and the closer it got to just the two of you, the less you would have ownership of a slave in the historical context. Which is why using historical contexts to define slavery as we practice it is so laughable to me.

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But "mastering a woman"? I tell Carol to do stuff and she does it. So far, she has done it every time so it's factually accurate to say that up until this moment, it's been "total" or "absolute". But I would have no idea whether I mastered her. In your opinion, can you crisply and factually define this or is it more of a poetic concept?

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ORIGINAL: leadership527

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Thanks Jeff! The ownership you have over Carol is the complete opposite of ownership in any of the old sense of the word slave, which was my point. In that form of slavery it works the opposite, the farther from society you go and the closer it got to just the two of you, the less you would have ownership of a slave in the historical context. Which is why using historical contexts to define slavery as we practice it is so laughable to me.

I don't see it in the same way. For instance, let's take a trip in the way back machine to primitive hunter/gatherer societies. So tribe a captures a member of tribe B, perhaps some hot young girl that the chief's son wants to bonk. What is true is that earlier times, societies were quite a bit smaller. This tribe that we're talking about may in fact be smaller than 50 individuals. Is that ownership any less "real" than ownership that happens in the US with 200+ million individuals? I would argue that it isn't scale that matters, it's how thorough the agreement is.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Oh god is that so true on so many levels. There is a line from a sci fi show about how you have to torture a man to really know him, LA can probably quote it from memory. Lady Pact and I have met but neither of us have seen the other with a partner and till you SEE that, in person, your knowledge of them is partial, even then it isn't complete. Anyone who has done this for any serious length of time has had the experience of meeting someone you thought was either fluffy or extreme, and then upon seeing them with their partner realizing how very wrong you were, or at least how little the words captured the reality of who they are.

Talking about m/s or D/s with people who you have not seen their interactions in person is like trying to describe colors to each other. A thousand words won't do it but pointing and saying "that is the blue I mean" is instantly understood.

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ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

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ORIGINAL: leadership527
if you do not have reality, then all you have is theory. That is why debating theory endlessly is terribly fascinating for so many people here.

This is one of the few times I have wished I had more space in my sig line, so I could carry a post around for a while, for all to see.

UniqueRaven, despite all the summer-vacation-static here right now, I do see a lot of people seriously discussing and sharing ideas.  In fact, a currently-active thread about the horrors of slave-like relationships led ne woman in those relationships to thank profusely multiple people on the thread for sharing so much about themselves.  This thread might never have come about if it hadn't been for an obstreperous OP.  The OP probably learned almost nothing, but someone else believed that she had been greatly helped.

Have you ever been in the situation where you didn't really know where you stood on some position until you had to say it out loud to someone whose viewpoint was far different from your own?  I bet you have, because you think with breadth and depth.  That's the process going on right now on the boards.  It's more acrimonious than I would like, and I can't imagine the mods are going to allow a slugfest atmosphere to continue forever, but a lot of people have been sharing a lot here lately.  It's a bit humbling to watch.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

In a way, I could say the same thing in your case.  On another thread, someone suggested that no one should watch you play.  In spite of My first reaction, I didn't add My comment about My opinion of, due to the things that I've read you write about over the years, I'd probably be one of the people who would enjoy the hell out of it.

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ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I have a question:

Why there was NO consensual slavery in the past, in modern M/s sense?

Yes, some people became slaves willingly in the past, but they did it only to survive or to gain some material or other advantage.
But, in history (before 20th century), there were NO cases of consensual slavery for the sake of slavery, and this NEVER had any sexual connotations.
If the ideas of internal enslavement, and all the other modern ideas of M/s are so natural for some people, why were they developed so late?

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I gave her two commands. The first was to wear the top. The second was to view it as a fun bit of naughtiness rather than a humiliating act of displaying herself. Both were commands and I expected (and got) obedience to both.

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The only place I'd see it slightly differently than you is that if I never asked her to be OK with it, then the "calling me a jackass" part would've been fine by me.

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I think you and I are seeing this similarly, but as is always true with me, I seek to simplify. I have no need to add "mastery" into the mix when the word "obedience" covers the necessary ground just fine. I'm always seeking to strip things down to their basic truths rather than build up elaborate constructs where not required.

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ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
All I know is that MercnBeth's coming home party in June is going to be HUGE, as I think Jeff and Carol are going to make it, I assume you two will be there, I wonder who else? Sadly, I won't be doing any forced bi as my two current partners are really into each other, I sort of feel like Knight of Mists Light at times! I wonder how cheap flights are from Houston?h

Funny, Merc has seen me with women but never seen me play full tilt, I have known Jeff for ages but he was too chicken to go to play parties , Lady Pact, you haven't even seen me with a woman, and so this party should be quite revealing. Jeff doesn't know it but we are going to force him to play...LOL!

I've already been forewarned about how many folks should be there and given some practical advice about sleeping bags. 

As for playing full tilt, I'm not promising that will be My contribution during the weekend.  Oh, I'm sure that there will be some of that, but it's not My real purpose in going.  What happens in addition to that is just icing on the cake.  I do think some of the potential possibilities could be very interesting.

I'll let Jeff speak for himself in what he might want to see or be interested in.  At any rate, I'm sure after that weekend, he'll stop calling himself the token vanilla guy.

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ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I have a question:

{clipped for brevity}
If the ideas of internal enslavement, and all the other modern ideas of M/s are so natural for some people, why were they developed so late?

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All I know is that MercnBeth's coming home party in June is going to be HUGE, as I think Jeff and Carol are going to make it, I assume you two will be there, I wonder who else?