RE: Slavery is bullshit

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 2:35:05 PM

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LMAO... you beat me to the punch.

I'm actually quite disappointed in this thread... Simply Michael usually manages to get at least one post in that gets me hot... sadly, not the case today.

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 2:38:04 PM

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I'm not sure if that's a hint or a challenge...

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 2:43:42 PM

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VC take one for the team would ya? Please? jb will make you cake!

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 2:45:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I have a question:

Why there was NO consensual slavery in the past, in modern M/s sense?

This would be de-evolution - life doesn't work that way. Or, it still could've happened but maybe the language of such a concept hadn't evolved, hence no recorded instances of it....

quote:

If the ideas of internal enslavement, and all the other modern ideas of M/s are so natural for some people, why were they developed so late?

It's a more mature concept - that many of us needed to explore much more than mere sexual intimacy? Now guess why I roll my eyes and "lock n load" when 20yo master comes looking for advice on how to deal with his even younger slave....!

Focus.

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 2:48:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I have a question:

Why there was NO consensual slavery in the past, in modern M/s sense?

I have a question:

Where are you getting your facts that there wasn't?

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 2:55:34 PM

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There is a quote that I can't attribute, I forget who said it. It goes something like this.

"When we are young we think of sex as the culmination of intimacy. When we are older, we understand it is just the beginning"

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 2:57:37 PM

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A little help please, Simply....

Simply's thread title:
"Slavery is bullshit"

Simply's perpetual signature line:
"Wonderful slaves are made by wonderful relationships"

Question:
Is this thread motivated along philosophical interest and inquiry or just a bitter rant 'cause your relationship life has hit a trough?

Focus.

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 3:08:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
He owns her because the tribe says he does, you own Carol because she says you do. THAT to me is the difference. If you were out alone hunting with Carol and you turned your back to her, she isn't as likely as your hot cave chick is, to bonk you over the head with a rock and leave.

*laughs* But as she just demonstrated, she may well nail her thumb to the wall (literally -- I've heard of hitting your thumb with the hammer but actually driving a nail into it?).. I'm not quite sure what that has to do with her slavery but hey... *laughs*

OK, more seriously, now what you're talking about is consent -- or what passes for it between Carol and I. I just don't think that "consent" and "ownership" have anything to do with each other. Just like "love", it certainly changes the flavor dramatically, no question about that. But the fact that she agrees that I own her doesn't materially change the essence of ownership... it just makes it a lot nicer for the parties involved.

Don't get me wrong. It is blatantly true that what Carol and I do is light years distant from our theoretical tribal example. I'm only questioning whether it is technically accurate or not to call it ownership which in turn makes it technically accurate to call it slavery. By way of historical example, the status of slaves throughout history has varied widely from time to time and culture to culture. The only common denominator is that there was a status of "owned" which gave the owner certain property rights (which inevitably abridged the personal rights of the owned person).

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(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 3:30:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jbcurious

LMAO... you beat me to the punch.

I'm actually quite disappointed in this thread... Simply Michael usually manages to get at least one post in that gets me hot... sadly, not the case today.

HeHe.. me too!

(in reply to jbcurious)

RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 3:42:43 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

A little help please, Simply....

Simply's thread title:
"Slavery is bullshit"

Simply's perpetual signature line:
"Wonderful slaves are made by wonderful relationships"

Question:
Is this thread motivated along philosophical interest and inquiry or just a bitter rant 'cause your relationship life has hit a trough?

Focus.

Focus, I actually have more women that I know what to do with at the moment. Sorry the meaning of my tagline escapes you but it seems to work rather well for me.

(in reply to Focus50)

RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 3:51:00 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
While we use the terms master and slave, I have real trouble with the myth of slavery on so many levels. Being a slave in no way meant you had anything but hatred and loathing for your master.

In many cases this was true, but not so throughout all times and places, for we must remember that history is not one single time or place that will support straw man absolutism. Recorded history is further very limited in what it recounts and understands about the goings-on of all people and events, which are lost to the mists of time. On top of this, there are many things history teachers and books get wrong, even considering how little of a gamut they teach. Be that as it may, some vignettes manage to survive, and refute your claims. While there was without a doubt a great deal of brutality and social evil involved in ancient slavery, to say all slaves had nothing but hatred and loathing for their masters is simply incorrect, if not from a historic sense, then from an intuitive one most of us can sense about human nature.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Being a slave in no way meant you were weak[;] gladiator's were slaves.

Agreed. I'm intrigued about your inclusion of this fact to support your rant, however. It is said many times in M/s that it takes individuals of great strength to be slaves, and I know this to be true by putting theory to practice over the years. That strength needn't be in all things, however, and then one must of course consider the seeming paradox of the strength needed to yield, and so on. For the stability of my earlier lunch, however, ixnay on the Kushiel's Dart quotes, please.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Being a slave sometimes meant you knew more than you master, were more adept, were "more" in so many ways.

Not economically or socially, but otherwise, I agree—they fulfilled many functions in ancient society, due to their skill sets. I'm not certain what this has to do with comparing modern consensual slavery with "historic" slavery, other than to instead draw similarities between consensual and antiquitous bondage—and I'm sure we don't want to do anything of the sort in this thread!

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Being a slave often meant you wanted to be free but society overrode your will to be free.

Agreed. Though if we are speaking historically, slavery was also consensually entered for reasons of famine, drought, plague or economic hardship, and this form of voluntary slavery included a wide gamut of employment.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Being a slave in the bdsm sense is an entirely different kettle of fish.

I agree. It is different, but to say the contrast between the two invalidates consensual slavery today isn't something I'd agree with in all cases, however. In many, I think I may be inclined to agree with you, but not in all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
There are many here who think doormats are healthy, I am not one of them. Someone who will roll over on their back like some abused and terrified puppy doesn't have much to surrender. Its sort of like an adult bragging about beating a kid in some game, really, you want to brag about that?

I know what "doormat" means, of course (there is really more than one working sentiment on this term among us) but I must admit this caricature you paint escapes me somewhat. Terrified puppies? That would just be too ideal. Regardless, if some men or women enjoy excessively submissive females (preferably straight out of rehab) more power to them. I'm sure they couldn't care less about the moral measuring stick some wish to use to legitimize their hunting strategies.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
You can own the body of a person pretty easy.

This is something I find disagreement with when spoken matter-of-fact, as ownership of body inevitably defaults to legal definitions and permissions. Suckage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael
Well, you can't own a mind. I wouldn't want a woman who wanted me to make all the decisions, it would bore the fuck out of me, clearly for others, that is what they want.

Clearly, we all have different ideas of what we want, and we shouldn't get into the jurisdiction that our preferences are better or somehow morally correct. As for owning a mind, I wouldn't quite phrase it that way. Having a mind in your thrall feels more accurate, though I don't discount the emotional depth to which one can be "owned".

< Message edited by MarcEsadrian -- 5/28/2010 3:55:57 PM >

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 4:22:04 PM

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As if I would be capable of either...

just an observation...

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 4:22:18 PM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

Would anyone of you obey your Master if he forbid you to use the Internet forever?

First, I take issue with the term "forever" -- to me, it is vague and needlessly inflammatory... like one is baiting the servant to say they would not do such, or biasing the question to almost -require- a negative-to-the-concept-of-obedience- response. If I were regulating internet usage for one whom I was keeping, I would say, "You will not use the internet until I say otherwise."... and yes, I would expect that I would be obeyed by any future one I kept in the same way that I have been graced to have been obeyed by the ones I've kept in the past.

Calla

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 4:35:22 PM

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SocratesNot,

quote:

Would anyone of you obey your Master if he forbid you to use the Internet forever?

I would. It is far too easy to find my footprint with third party software that would capture every keystroke. Not to mention the fact I disobeyed and invited unnecessary consequences on myself for virtual enjoyment. Sorry, not my cup of tea.

~porcelaine

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 4:41:15 PM

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i was never a perfectly obedient slave, i would say if he told me i could never use the internet again, i would say i would occassionally risk getting my ass beat or whatever consequence he chose and use the internet.However, he would also have to determine whether he wanted me to keep working in the career i was because i used the internet occassionally.

You are mistaking obedience or lack there of as defining concept of what a slave is and its not a defining concept -- though its usually beneficial for a slave to obey but its not what defines her as a slave. When a slave disobeys she doesn't stop being a slave, she simply is a disobedient slave.

angel

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 4:44:20 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: laurell3

VC take one for the team would ya? Please? jb will make you cake!

............. did someone mention cake

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 4:52:01 PM

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Thank you for putting us all straight. What an erudite cultured educated and learned individual you are. We are indeed priveliged to have such a paragon of the academic virtues among such a rabble as we.
This said, do you find it hard to listen to music, given where your head is?

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 4:59:49 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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Of course and it would be one of the easiest orders to obey. Being online is fun but it's not the end all be all.

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 5:01:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: reynardfox

Thank you for putting us all straight. What an erudite cultured educated and learned individual you are. We are indeed privileged to have such a paragon of the academic virtues among such a rabble as we.
This said, do you find it hard to listen to music, given where your head is?

Thank you, its good to be recognized for my greatness, its why I feel I am so wonderful at being modest because considering how difficult someone with accomplishments such as mine. As for it being hard to hear, not sure how you knew but yes, their ample breasts do tend to muffle the sound but as a friend says "it doesn't suck".

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RE: Slavery is bullshit - 5/28/2010 5:03:21 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: SocratesNot

I have a question:

Why there was NO consensual slavery in the past, in modern M/s sense?

I have a question:

Where are you getting your facts that there wasn't?

The same place he's been getting all his "facts" about BDSM, his copy of BDSM for Dummies

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(in reply to LaTigresse)

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