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List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 5:25:56 PM

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For all those critics of America and U.S. policies, perhaps you could list here those nations that have been more beneficial to people outside their borders than the United States has been. Please show HOW those countries have benefited more people than the U.S. has, and in a bigger way than the U.S. has since, let's say, 1776.

Again, please, don't just list them, give us a little bit of an explanation about why you say that nation or that state has been more beneficial for humanity as a whole.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 5:28:41 PM

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The number of people in this country that make a practice of downing America sickens me. There is nothing wrong with criticizing the government or either political party, but if you really dont like our country, get the hell out.
Work for change, work for improvement, but if you dont love America, you dont need to be here and we dont want you.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 5:35:10 PM

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AMEN! Considering there are places in the world that public criticism of the leadership (political or religious) can put one in jail, and usually the ground, we have it pretty damn good. This country, with it's problems, is still the BEST place to be free. Please, those that want to criticize and not work for change, please go to some of the countries where people flee every day for a chance to come here, for real freedom. Also, (major pet peeve coming up): VOTE! And if you really want to make a difference, KNOW who and what you are voting for!

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 5:48:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

For all those critics of America and U.S. policies, perhaps you could list here those nations that have been more beneficial to people outside their borders than the United States has been. Please show HOW those countries have benefited more people than the U.S. has, and in a bigger way than the U.S. has since, let's say, 1776.

Again, please, don't just list them, give us a little bit of an explanation about why you say that nation or that state has been more beneficial for humanity as a whole.

I would say that I think no other country has had the equivilant broad ranging impact on, or the grand total of resources spent on, aiding and improving others in the world. I will cavaet that quanitity does not necessarily make quality. However, only on individual measures do other nations surpass us.

*meow*

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 6:26:16 PM

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Like the bumper stickers say: "I Love my Country But I Fear my Government."

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 6:58:02 PM

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Well, that's loading the dice. How about since 1970? I'll give you 1776-1969 (even though that includes the Shah and a whole lot of other shit).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

Please show HOW those countries have benefited more people than the U.S. has, and in a bigger way than the U.S. has since, let's say, 1776.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 7:19:14 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, that's loading the dice. How about since 1970? I'll give you 1776-1969 (even though that includes the Shah and a whole lot of other shit).

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

Please show HOW those countries have benefited more people than the U.S. has, and in a bigger way than the U.S. has since, let's say, 1776.

I think I may have been unclear. I meant to say compare the U.S. since 1776 to any other nation over that nation's entire history -- or, now that I think of it, over a shorter time period (but there's no benefit to the other country if you take a shorter time period).

I don't see how it loads the dice to cover this country's whole history as an independent nation.

I also don't know of any other country that has been more of a benefit to the world since 1970. Any nominations for that one?

Compare any nation to ours, and I could come up with two that would be in the running as possibly having benefited mankind more, but in the end, I doubt they did, and I'm going to wait to say it until others have had a chance to comment.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 7:32:41 PM

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Well, what does "benefiting mankind" mean? You're not going to find much consensus on that one. Besides, a state's purpose isn't necessarily to "benefit mankind," nor is every state in the same position to do so. Austria-Hungary happened to produce a lot of people who "benefited mankind," but I doubt Austria-Hungary is in anyone's personal Hall of Fame of all-time great countries. (Not to mention the fact that Austria-Hungary doesn't exist anymore.)

Anyway, no country has had either the power or the opportunities of the United States since the end of WW II, so there really aren't many illuminating comparisons you could make. I admire the Netherlands and believe their laws are much more sensible than ours in many respects, but you can't compare the Netherlands to the U.S. That's absurd. What you CAN talk about is the mistakes that the U.S. has made--and since 1970, there have been many.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DelightMachine

I also don't know of any other country that has been more of a benefit to the world since 1970. Any nominations for that one?

Compare any nation to ours, and I could come up with two that would be in the running as possibly having benefited mankind more, but in the end, I doubt they did, and I'm going to wait to say it until others have had a chance to comment.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 7:44:38 PM

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I've always admired the United Kingdom for her actions standing alone for a time, in the Second World War. It seems clear that the UK could have struck a deal with the Nazi's. Perhaps they were confident, or perhaps they saw through the smoke screen the Nazi's put up in the early war years. It really doesn't matter. They stood tall while the rest could get themselves ready for war. Who knows where the world would be, had they been unwilling, or a nation with less internal fortitude. I don't know if this puts the United States to shame, but it's certainly admirable.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 8:06:51 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Well, what does "benefiting mankind" mean? You're not going to find much consensus on that one.

Picky picky picky, LaM. Take any definition you want. I'm not looking for consensus, I'm looking for candidates.

quote:

Besides, a state's purpose isn't necessarily to "benefit mankind," nor is every state in the same position to do so. Austria-Hungary happened to produce a lot of people who "benefited mankind," but I doubt Austria-Hungary is in anyone's personal Hall of Fame of all-time great countries. (Not to mention the fact that Austria-Hungary doesn't exist anymore.)

Not existing doesn't put Austria-Hungary, the Roman Empire or the Aztec Empire or the Soviet Union or the satrapy that ran East Germany out of the running. I want to be inclusive. I wanted anyone to be able to nominate either a state that wasn't coterminous with a nation or a nation that wasn't coterminous with a state's borders. I want to be as broad as possible.

quote:

Anyway, no country has had either the power or the opportunities of the United States since the end of WW II, so there really aren't many illuminating comparisons you could make. I admire the Netherlands and believe their laws are much more sensible than ours in many respects, but you can't compare the Netherlands to the U.S. That's absurd. What you CAN talk about is the mistakes that the U.S. has made--and since 1970, there have been many.

That would be a different thread. I'm talking about which nation, state or nation state has benefited mankind more than the United States -- for whatever reason anyone cares to give, under whatever definition of "benefit" anyone cares to give.

When people are attacking America, they don't say, "Well, America had more opportunities to do awful things than, say, Switzerland." They just attack it or hate it. I say, give me the country that has done more for the world. And you don't have to weigh the bad things with the good, either, because I'm not asking for that. Just give me the good things and tell me some nation has done more for the world with the good it has done.

I think it would be illuminating to find some nominations.

Or to find no nominations.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 8:39:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn
I've always admired the United Kingdom for her actions standing alone for a time, in the Second World War. It seems clear that the UK could have struck a deal with the Nazi's. Perhaps they were confident, or perhaps they saw through the smoke screen the Nazi's put up in the early war years. It really doesn't matter. They stood tall while the rest could get themselves ready for war. Who knows where the world would be, had they been unwilling, or a nation with less internal fortitude. I don't know if this puts the United States to shame, but it's certainly admirable.

Certainly a great period of their history and a great benefit to the world, but I'm looking for total benefits over time. I'd say that the U.K. certainly has been one of the nations that's benefited more people outside it's borders than nearly any other.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 9:09:19 PM

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I nominate Holy See based on the % of it's GNP it utilizes to help the poor and underprivileged outside it's recognized borders.

Namaste DM. ;)

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 9:22:27 PM

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Oooooh. Good one Celleste. As a state, it definitely qualifies. And it stretches back to the Papal states -- I don't even know how far back. Massive amounts of money have gone through it to help the poor (although it's not exactly the same as the Catholic Church -- there are many parts of the Church that do social work independent of the administration of the Vatican.

I'm not sure that the Vatican has helped more people in the sense of social good than the United States has, but maybe. As a Catholic, I'd say it's definitely had a more beneficial effect on the world than the United States though -- because it's saved souls for eternity, and that just can't compare with anything we've been able to do either as a society or state.

So I'd say there's one that's done more than the United States. Any others?

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 10:00:37 PM

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The state of insanity?

That is one that has helped a whole lotta people. Or were we supposed to be sticking with geography?

Best,

LaMalinche

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 10:04:25 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

I nominate Holy See based on the % of it's GNP it utilizes to help the poor and underprivileged outside it's recognized borders.

Namaste DM. ;)

Celeste

The Vatican City is a Country

Quite right. Good one!

When you think of all the "secondary" organizations that do good works as well (such as Catholic Charities), the contribution becomes baffling in scope.

Definately something to ponder.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/20/2006 10:48:13 PM

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This thread has the odour of The US v Every One Else, with every nation being second class compared to the US.. There was at one time when this attitude was prevelent in many posts accross the boards in CM and I will state now what i stated then (and upset the Mods) that if your citizens who are by numbers the majority of CM want CM to be a predominantly US site and then just bloody well say so, I'm reasonable sure that it would be possibl to either split CM into Us Cm and non USCM or even to locate suitable people to form a non US site mirroring CM..... Realy, I don't give a shit, I probably won't be around here mush in the near future of at least on the boards.. But iu am echoing the sentements of those who maeesge me daily or get me on a secure IM or private email...........

The US has and will for the forseable future an important, vital and Honourable role to play in the world.. I, like may others here who are not US residents get tired having the concept that the USA is the center of the universe rammed down our throats.. I've lost count of the technology and inventions originating in Australia which because of an inept Government and that Aussied have been too lazy about investing in Australia, heve endee up in US hands and never given credit as to the origins.. Beyond the horizon radar is one which comes to memory... Sometimes it is time to go softly, softly and get out of people's faces. Good diplomacy allows for face saving and retention of national pride rather than the larger than life brashness..... Don't get me wrong I stant and salute the US National Anthem and have great pride in my US connections as well as the accreditations and freedoms I have when visiting.. I am also proud of my Aussie heritage, not of the Australoiua today which has become a lap dog for the US administration but for where we came from and out traditional way of life which is all but gone for good........ Guess I'll be moving to either Canada or Southern Ireland...

Eddited to add: In the past it was known thatr for a country which was lagging in development ot whatever, all that was needed was to declare war on the US, capitulatre before too much damage was done and the US will help you rebuild and become on of the international giants......

< Message edited by IronBear -- 4/20/2006 10:50:57 PM >

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/21/2006 12:21:12 AM

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hmmmm, I think the reason the thread was made, just a guess could be wrong, is because another thread was full up of people talking about what the US did wrong. If you get tired of the US, imagine how tired I get hearing from citizens all around the world yelling from the sidelines about the US. The US shouldn't do this, the US is nothing but a bunch of greedy bastards. Cheney is evil, Bush is in bed with the saudis,Bush is a idiot, Amercians are stupid, US does everything bad in the world.. Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah. Fuck off. (not you personally just people in general bitching)

So, there's a feel good thread about the US(not even sure that's how the OP intended it, but you're reading it that way), not sure how that's bad. There's hardly a day I can read/watch/listen to the news without seeing some foreign dickhead bitching about the US, as if their country is so perfect they have to spend time focusing on us.

hmmm, so if you can get all the non-US citizens who spend their time bashing the US to shut up and worry about their own crap hole governments, then I personally will never mention how great the US is compared to other countries. If you take a count people spend way more time bashing the US or making every imaginable theory about our evil nature. When was the last time you saw someone rant about the evil australians? Hell, I know so little about australian politics it's pathetic.Nor do I care, I'm in the US!!! I know you are politicly friendly, that's all I need to know. I'm concerned about my own country and its concerns, everyone else should do the same. Bet you'd get tired of it pretty quick yourself if everyday you saw some american bitching about your country.

If it makes you feel better I'll make a thread about the downfall of australia.

Even in your Post you somewhat blame the US for Australia's problems. Stealing your technology, implying we control Australia(lapdog). Well, if you have a pussy government, maybe you should bitch at them. It's not our fault if your government doesn't protect it's technology, or rolls over when we ask them to do something. Jees you'd think we should be so perfect as not to take advantage of an opportunity.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/21/2006 12:44:48 AM

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If you bothered to read my post you may have gleened some idea that i am extremely loyal to the US and no i am not going into the why's and wherefors but i do not need a green card to come over and work.. You may even have got the glimmering how pissed off I am with modern Australia. It is known at the highest levels that ionce the dickheads make us a republic I'm out of here and will change nationality..perhaps Cananian, Southern ireland or even US.... What you can nopt understand is that it becomes as tiresome it is for non US citizens to hear about how the US is the center of the World as it is for you to hear people knocking the US.... What I did say is that the chest beating causes more loss of credability than a more balanced approached and admitting that others have done things too..... As I said if you guysd want tomake this a US only site, say the word. Already I have a list of people who have quit posting because they like me are tired of being treated as third class citizens.... No I never said the US stold Australian Inventions but they never have given any credit either.... Such thinbgs are selectively forgotten.... One problem you guys have is that with foreign news most of you get the politically filtered versions where as I can sit and watch direct foreign news feeds.... Go figure...................... (Wanders of to make a phone call to see if his US Military Pasport is still operational)

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/21/2006 1:04:26 AM

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Your the first person that mentioned the whole US site and non-US site thing, that I've seen. All I have to say on the topic is come over here and live, then watch, as the french, germans, canadians, etc.... all criticize the US constantly. Then you get on a website, and some psycho nut starts ranting about US conspiracies left and right. It gets old. And then a couple of feel good US threads pop up and people are wanting to leave? Sounds over-sensitive to me.

Hell I have no problem start a thread about australia and its contributions. All I know is the Three gorges damn. I think that's the name of it. I just don't know why it's a problem with people that americans think the US is great. I'd hope other people could feel the same way about their country as well. I wouldn't get offended, if someone said Australia was great. Hell, you could tell me why. All I know for the most part is my country, and I like feeling my country is great. That doesn't mean any other country isn't.

As far as news, I don't even have cable, 99% of my news information comes from online sites. And mostly when I read about something I read from several different sources, quite a lot of the time those aren't US based.

My opinion is loving your country and feeling it is the greatest place on the planet isn't bad. In fact if everyone felt that way, I doubt their would be very many problems. Unfortunately, alot of countries, feel the US is better off, that's not my problem. Maybe they should work on making their own countries better.

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RE: List of countries that put America to shame - 4/21/2006 1:08:49 AM

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i think, for excellence, we need only compare ourselves to ourselves. have we done well, compared to other countries? perhaps. but looking at the state of the united states? we could do better. doesn't mean we're wrong, doesn't mean we're bad, just means we can always improve.

i don't like these types of threads because they always smack of politics. i love the country of the us, but i hate politics, i'm not real fond of the government, and i think a lot of things could be changed. and i'm tired of being told that i shouldn't push for those changes because, well, "we're better than everybody else." i don't care. even if we ARE better than everybody else (which i don't really believe) that doesn't make us spectacularly wonderful and it doesn't mean that we don't have problems that we CAN and AREN'T fixing.

i don't know. i just find this game rather childish, personally.

< Message edited by fullofgrace -- 4/21/2006 1:09:26 AM >

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