Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ?

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Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 4:46:24 PM

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Prompted by others on another thread I ask what do the largest contingent of this website understand about British history ?

Bearing in mind Thomas Paine an ex Briton was one of the founding fathers.

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:00:28 PM

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Can't speak for them but I personally know more about ancient Egypt for some strange reason.

I think they teach the wrong things at school.

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:02:55 PM

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Every last one of them (the founding fathers) felt they were British, most right up to June of 1776 when the Declaration of Independence was being debated. .

< Message edited by FatDomDaddy -- 3/31/2011 5:05:30 PM >

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:09:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Prompted by others on another thread I ask what do the largest contingent of this website understand about British history ?

Bearing in mind Thomas Paine an ex Briton was one of the founding fathers.

Nothing.

We try to ignore Britain except when we need a lap dog.

And yes, that was rude, but it's true.

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:12:35 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Prompted by others on another thread I ask what do the largest contingent of this website understand about British history ?

Bearing in mind Thomas Paine an ex Briton was one of the founding fathers.

Actually,over here,we think of the "Founding Fathers" as those who have their signatures on the Declaration.
As such Paine does not qualify...though I dare say without him the Revolution would not have taken place when it did,nor would it have survived the terrible first winter..after the ignominious defeat on Long Island/Brook Line(later known as Brooklyn)the retreat up Manhattan....the loss of the Forts Washington and Lee in Jersey.....retreat after retreat.
Paine wrote the American Crisis,and proved once and for all the pen is indeed mightier than the sword.The men that crossed the Delaware that awful night of Dec 25th were all read Paine's new tract...the password for that nights movement(as well perhaps for the Revolution itself) "Victory or death".There would be no retreat from Trenton.

sorry for the hijack

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:14:46 PM

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quote:

Actually,over here,we think of the "Founding Fathers" as those who have their signatures on the Declaration.
As such Paine does not qualify

Neither does George Washington.

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:17:26 PM

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Damm thats right....okay he is the exception to the rule

Besides he can be forgiven for not being there,he was a little busy at the time.Paine though his words inspired the Revolution....and gave it a much needed boost during the "crisis" had little at all to do with the formation,or the "founding" if you will ,of the new country.

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:26:33 PM

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Interestingly,one of the signers,who by the measure I have put forth ,could be considered a "Founding Father" later repudiated the document ,betraying his pledge made to each other with "our Lives,our Fortune and our Sacred Honor"...Richard Stockton of New Jersey
Five signers in all were captured by the British...only Stockton made such an ignoble deal.None of them ,by any report ,were tortured or subject to "special" treatment from their British captors.
What any of this has to do with British history is tenuous at best,ceptin that at the time the two histories do sort of intersect

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:38:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Actually,over here,we think of the "Founding Fathers" as those who have their signatures on the Declaration.

Are you kidding me???.....George Washington IS THE Father and his signature is not on the Declaration, neither are John Jay's Alexander Hamilton's or James Madison's. Nor are the signatures of Patrick Henry's, Henry Knox, Ethan Allan, George Clinton, John Hanson, John Marshall, James Monroe and a score of others INCLUDING Thomas Paine.

Actually, I guess American History 101 went over your head too

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:42:26 PM

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Stonehenge was built by smurfs, what more do you need to know?

< Message edited by FullCircle -- 3/31/2011 5:43:18 PM >

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:43:52 PM

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Okay,I guess I should take a stab at the actual subject matter,,,I have read a great deal about British history(not that my knowledge of it s anywhere approaching what I know of U.S.history....but here's the thing British history,especially when you go back to say the War of the Roses is so damm complex and incestuous so as to make it almost incomprehensible.Who is switching sides here and who is betraying this one....it all is a bit messy imho,but totally fascinating

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Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:45:20 PM

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1066 something happened that day.

It involved Vauxhall cars.

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 5:50:34 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
Actually,over here,we think of the "Founding Fathers" as those who have their signatures on the Declaration.

Are you kidding me???.....George Washington IS THE Father and his signature is not on the Declaration, neither are John Jay's Alexander Hamilton's or James Madison's. Nor are the signatures of Patrick Henry's, Henry Knox, Ethan Allan, George Clinton, John Hanson, John Marshall, James Monroe and a score of others INCLUDING Thomas Paine.

Actually, I guess American History 101 went over your head too

Where is that apology ..Alexander Hamilton was a young pup ,as were Madison and Monroe...hardly "Fathers" at the founding.
Ethan Allen's fame came about during the revolution,as did Knox's...again hardly a "Father".
I will repeat for the less bright in the audience(basically you) the Founding(look up the meaning of the word)Fathers were,save for Washington those who signed the Document that gave birth,and announced it to the world ,of the nascent nation.
Did all that you name become giants of the young country....of course they did....but they were not "founders"
Sorry you fail...and you did so in grand fashion.

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 6:01:54 PM

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Okay,I am willing to eat a small serving of crow....though I still dispute Paine's inclusion as well as a number of the giants offerd by FDD
Here is wiki's definition of the Founding Fathers and who that encompasses;

The Founding Fathers of the United States of America were political leaders and statesmen who participated in the American Revolution by signing the United States Declaration of Independence, taking part in the American Revolutionary War, establishing the United States Constitution, or by some other key contribution. Within the large group known as the "Founding Fathers", there are two key subsets: the "Signers of the Declaration of Independence" (who signed the United States Declaration of Independence in 1776) and the Framers of the Constitution (who were delegates to the Federal Convention and took part in framing or drafting the proposed Constitution of the United States). Most historians define the "Founding Fathers" to mean a larger group, including not only the Signers and the Framers but also all those who, whether as politicians, jurists, statesmen, soldiers, diplomats, or ordinary citizens, took part in winning American independence and creating the United States of America.[2] American historian Richard B. Morris, in his 1973 book Seven Who Shaped Our Destiny: The Founding Fathers as Revolutionaries, identified the following seven figures as the key Founding Fathers:
Notice the two key subsets....Signers of the Declaration....and the part I neglected Framers of the Constitution....which,of course would include Madison and Hamilton.So there is my small serving of crow.....but FDD went too far in trying to include figures such as Ethan Allen,Henry Knox,John Hanson ,George Clinton and Paine.They appear in no accepted definition of the "Founding Fathers".Giants all.....but not Fathers

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 6:07:25 PM

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Sorry guys, but, honestly, almost nothing.

...at some point the Spanish Armada
...at some point the Black Plague
...at some point the Magna Carta
...at some point, a lot of guys name "Henry" were king, and one of them liked to have his wives killed
...something, something, war with France
...something, something Waterloo
...Shakespeare
...colonial America, and a lot of wet tea
...tea time and opium in India
...a sun that never sets
...wars: win some, lose some
...the Beatles
...Princess Dianna
...Prince William

Can i ask the questions i did on the other thread?

Is there a high court in the U.K. that reviews the legality of laws?

If there's no written constitution, how do you determine if laws are legal? Or are they all legal, by definition, once they're passed? Is there any way to get rid of an immoral law if it has the support of Parliament? How would Brown vs the Board of Education of Topeka have been handled in the U.K.? (1954 U.S. Supreme Court hearing that overturned legally mandated segregation in the U.S.)

Don't the courts have to "interpret" law in England? Or is every law so un-ambiguously written that it's completely clear what it means, and whether it applies to a particular case? Frankly, that's hard to believe. i don't understand the confusion expressed in the other thread about the fact that the U.S. Constitution has to be "interpreted". How can *any* law not have to be interpreted?

Are there any laws currently in effect in the U.K. that are over 200 years old, and how were they phrased? Does the interpretation of these laws (if they exist) change over time, or are they always understood to mean exactly the same thing?

pam

< Message edited by gungadin09 -- 3/31/2011 6:11:19 PM >

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 6:13:59 PM

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quote:

s movement(as well perhaps for the Revolution itself) "Victory or de

quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Actually,over here,we think of the "Founding Fathers" as those who have their signatures on the Declaration.
As such Paine does not qualify

Neither does George Washington.

G1
Not too many people know that and whats even funnier they think he was the first president LOL

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 3/31/2011 6:14:24 PM >

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 6:15:47 PM

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? mind explaining what the fuck that last post was about?

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4

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RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 6:16:48 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Interestingly,one of the signers,who by the measure I have put forth ,could be considered a "Founding Father" later repudiated the document ,betraying his pledge made to each other with "our Lives,our Fortune and our Sacred Honor"...Richard Stockton of New Jersey
Five signers in all were captured by the British...only Stockton made such an ignoble deal.None of them ,by any report ,were tortured or subject to "special" treatment from their British captors.
What any of this has to do with British history is tenuous at best,ceptin that at the time the two histories do sort of intersect

well the 13 colonies are all incorporated under the king, that pretty much british to me.

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 6:18:02 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

? mind explaining what the fuck that last post was about?

gw never signed and he was not the first president

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"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to slvemike4u)

RE: Brtitish History as Ametica understands it ? - 3/31/2011 6:19:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gungadin09
Is there a high court in the U.K. that reviews the legality of laws?

No it's in Europe now.

The real problem in my view is there is far too many differing opinions on how a law is interpreted. If people sit down with the sole purpose of interpreting a law then new interpretations will come from that exercise.

Nobody should be overly familiar with the law. A judge should read it and think "Oh I didn't know that." pass a sentence with a snap decision and then forget what he didn't know. Like when you are putting furniture together: "Oh I didn't know that's how those round twisty things worked" then the next time you go to put furniture together you think "Humm now how do these round twisty things work? Let me find out by reading the manual"

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