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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 7:46:42 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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I read your post twice and I fail to see the few questions you felt left with. All i see is you calling someone else wrong, ignorant and misguided.

Personal choice gives Otters the right to reply according to the beliefs they follow. It does the same for you. I do not understand why you chose to try to put down Otters views, rather than just express your own and allow the gentle reader to take what they may from each of your posts.

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 7:47:28 AM   
Madame4a


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yep.. you're not an expert.. and neither am I.. but I consider myself a practicing Wiccan... and its really a lot more complicated than that.. and not quite so narrow...



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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 7:48:54 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: favesclava

i dance naked under moonlight . sometimes i dance by the light of a campfire. even if youre not Wiccan you should try it . (with lots of bug repellant of course )


hahaha, I am imagining skeeter bites in places that don't want to be bitten now.

I long to live in the country, where I can frolic and sunbathe naked when I feel like it.....one day, when I manage to get my dream home, a doublewide sitting right in the middle of 20 acres, it will be a reality.

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 7:51:06 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

sometimes i dance by the light of a campfire. even if youre not Wiccan you should try it
I DID try it, when a spider crawled up my shorts.

It was not enjoyable.

Not one damn bit.




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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 8:11:59 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think this might be the very first time that a cultural difference has been mentioned on the boards (which I'll thank VC for the explanation) that I actually didn't enjoy.  I've never noticed in particular that our English friends were more likely to be outspoken in disagreements on matters of faith.  I'll have to pay more attention in that area.  (Might be a good P&R thread.)


From the stats I cited above, LP, there's a stronger cultural difference on religion than I think many people realise. (I myself blinked at reading that 80% of Americans report that they pray regularly, for instance.) In the UK, I think the usual reaction to RF's kind of 'fluffy horseshit' comment amongst religious people would have been more of a tut and a 'Pfft. Up yours'. There might be some growls, but there'd be a touch more humour behind them.

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 8:12:43 AM   
LadyPact


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First things first.  The dancing in the moonlight or by the fire bit rocks!  If you haven't done it, put it on your bucket list, because it is pretty awesome.

quote:

ORIGINAL: porcelaine
Greetings,

Having read your comments on this thread i'm left with a few questions. The most obvious being why you got 'sucked in' when it was merely an offhand remark that didn't demand debate, nonetheless that's your right so be it. But then you base your dialogue on statistics generated by the Army, which lead me to wonder how long you've been involved with Wicca. It simply isn't a figure most would look to when speaking of that branch of Paganism. There are better sources that are more in touch with the pulse so to speak that would have been more reputable.

The real problem with finding the information is mainly due to the categorization of what constitutes Neo-Paganism and accounting for those that may have eclectic practices that pull from multiple sources, some of which do not fall under the bandanna, such as Native American spirituality and African Traditional Religions. Nor do the latter two wish to be lumped in with the Neo folks.

I actually know very little about various faiths, so the above was quite interesting to Me.  Oddly enough, in clip's career in the military, he has had seven different trainings for his MOS depending on what slot needed to be filled for the unit.  One of them, believe it or not, was Minister's Assistant.  Just a fun little factoid.

quote:

Pagans are just as judgmental and narrow-minded as other religious types. There's always been a divide in Wicca between the supposed traditional lines (Gardnerian/Alexandrian and offshoote) and those that choose to blend. The latter may be more commonplace these days but it was never readily received. Nor was self-initiation considered acceptable in the past. And i found they bickered just as fervently as any Christian group i'd encountered. The ranks are generally filled with those that fled Western religions and they bring all their anti-whatever baggage with them. i'm not speaking as a third party observer, but as a former practitioner of Wicca and Traditional non Wiccan based practices. i simply did not witness the brotherhood you're suggesting.

No surprise there.  I suppose it would be the same as any other "group" where a commonality is all that was consistent among the members.  We tell folks the same thing about BDSM folks as a whole.  Doesn't mean that we aren't all over the spectrum on everything else.

quote:

i don't agree with your assessment and you're overgeneralizing quite a deal. There are merits of D/s that are in opposition to some paths that might fall under the label. Rather than sweep the whole lot beneath that statement, i'd specify instead. Even still, you might encounter this issue regarding harm and sadism. They're not exactly bedfellows and there's no religion that i'm aware of -and i'm speaking right hand and middle ground here- that would promote the practice. Ascetics flagellate for a purpose, and it is generally related to G-d or is used as a corrective measure of atonement. Even sex magick has a purpose, though the goal is up to its participants. If you're accustomed to working with light and dark energies you'd have a clear understanding which ones are drawn to practices like that. Hence the comment.

In short, there are individuals who find Wicca appealing who also have an attraction to or practice D/s mainly because they're accustomed to walking by their own drumbeat. i wouldn't say one fosters the other. i've met more than my share of Christians doing the same. And at the end of the day it is a personal choice for most.

Namaste,

~porcelaine


I happen to think that any person of faith has to come to terms with the highlighted above.  I know that I had to do so when I was coming into sadism.  Even without matters of faith, we are taught from a young age that it isn't acceptable to physically hurt people.  That was part of the process for Me and I don't think I'm alone in that. 

The best that I can offer on that issue is, even in sadism, the conflict is removed because I make the distinction between hurt and harm.  It took Me a while to grasp the concept of pain being a form of love to the masochist who receives it.  Once I did, it helped Me to get over the hurdle of the contrast that seemed to be present in My beliefs.

To this day, I still admit that I might be wrong on the subject.  If I am, God and I will sort that out when I get there.


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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 8:22:53 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
From the stats I cited above, LP, there's a stronger cultural difference on religion than I think many people realise. (I myself blinked at reading that 80% of Americans report that they pray regularly, for instance.) In the UK, I think the usual reaction to RF's kind of 'fluffy horseshit' comment amongst religious people would have been more of a tut and a 'Pfft. Up yours'. There might be some growls, but there'd be a touch more humour behind them.

Very fascinating. 

If you don't mind Me asking, are similar comments very common?  Over here, I'd say that discussions of faith are typically a good way to make any gathering of mixed folks go south quickly.  People would rather debate politics than religion because the latter can so easily offend a person.  I'm very interested in hearing your views on the subject.

(With apologies to the OP, but I am curious about all kinds of things.)


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 8:36:34 AM   
OttersSwim


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Miss Porcelaine,

In reply to your post...I got sucked in because the comments made by RF caught me at a bad time in my day, lit my undies on fire and made me want to run around and shout a bit...not my best moment, but I am only human... 

As to the Army statistics...the comment made by RF sought to invalidate Wiccanism/Paganism in general.  This is a common thing done for many years by naysayers and ninnies such as our former President George W. Bush.  After a while of seeing these sorts of offhand, narrow and uninformed remarks it can become like poking a sore spot and not in a good way...see above for why I reacted like I did.  Wiccanism is recognized by the U.S. Military as a valid form of spiritual practice.  It is written into manuals for Chaplans and education is provided so that they can provide service to those that practice pagan paths - this seemed as valid a form of recognizing validity of pagan practice as any to me.

As to the divisions in Pagan groups, yes they do exist and this is why I put the word "generally" in my statement - humans are human and will tend to bicker...and you just can't get away from dickheads, boobies, ninnies, or naysayers no matter where you go.

As to your view of my assessment of D/s and pagan spiritual practice...I will simply say that there is a generally used creed in many pagan practices that goes along the lines of "And as you harm none, do as you will.".  For myself, I focus on the word "harm" which is a concept that in D/s is generally accepted also-  we may hurt, but as a group, we do not generally seek to cause -harm-.  So I wonder at your use of harm and sadism when the application of physical sensation is generally (and I would even say fairly widely) oriented to -not- cause harm.  And so I see no conflict therein, though I admit that there might be those that would.

It is difficult to write a post in defense of multiple paths without getting somewhat general in scope.  My goal was simply to point out that many pagan practices are positive paths that enhance the lives of those involved in them, were a valid form of spiritual and religious observance, and that some found them in harmony with WIIWD.

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 4/8/2011 8:39:18 AM >


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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 8:39:31 AM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
From the stats I cited above, LP, there's a stronger cultural difference on religion than I think many people realise. (I myself blinked at reading that 80% of Americans report that they pray regularly, for instance.) In the UK, I think the usual reaction to RF's kind of 'fluffy horseshit' comment amongst religious people would have been more of a tut and a 'Pfft. Up yours'. There might be some growls, but there'd be a touch more humour behind them.

Very fascinating. 

If you don't mind Me asking, are similar comments very common?  Over here, I'd say that discussions of faith are typically a good way to make any gathering of mixed folks go south quickly.  People would rather debate politics than religion because the latter can so easily offend a person.  I'm very interested in hearing your views on the subject.

(With apologies to the OP, but I am curious about all kinds of things.)



Not common, I'd say, but one hears them. I shared a house once with a Wiccan. Though I've never been religious and didn't share his Wiccan beliefs, he still asked me to officiate as half of his 'best man' at his wedding. (That is, I was his King of Winter - while another friend was his King of Summer - at his handfasting.) Some of his friends laughed at him; others were gentler. But his response to the former was always to turn his eyes to the sky and say, 'Yeah, OK, get it out of your system.'

I don't think that there's any difference between the USA and the UK regarding acceptance of the principle of 'live and let live' - but I do think that the way that principle works in practice can be markedly different.

< Message edited by PeonForHer -- 4/8/2011 8:41:09 AM >


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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 8:44:44 AM   
OttersSwim


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See P...and I still have to think that if you called someone's faith "fluffy horseshit" and mocked him in a pub in England, you would be just as likely to have that bloke coming across the table at you with at least harsh words if not directed fists as you would in the U.S. with the exact same statement...

< Message edited by OttersSwim -- 4/8/2011 8:45:03 AM >


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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 8:47:14 AM   
LaTigresse


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I am going to guess it all depends upon the company you keep.

I know people that, if I called their religioun fluffy horseshit, they would laugh and say something like "you might be right!" and I know other people that would be deeply offended. Similarly with political beliefs.

Some people are simply more sensitive about their shit. I have my beliefs as to why, but will keep those to myself. They would add nothing to the discussion.


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Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 8:56:54 AM   
LPslittleclip


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as a military chaplain assistant i have met and served with some that are both wiccan and in the lifestyle. there is a group on fetlife dedicated to wiccans in the lifestyle so if you are looking for someone into both wicca and the lifestyle start there. as far as numbers haven't a clue try a survey of wiccans and see what the results end up.

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 9:19:04 AM   
LadyPact


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
Not common, I'd say, but one hears them. I shared a house once with a Wiccan. Though I've never been religious and didn't share his Wiccan beliefs, he still asked me to officiate as half of his 'best man' at his wedding. (That is, I was his King of Winter - while another friend was his King of Summer - at his handfasting.) Some of his friends laughed at him; others were gentler. But his response to the former was always to turn his eyes to the sky and say, 'Yeah, OK, get it out of your system.'

I don't think that there's any difference between the USA and the UK regarding acceptance of the principle of 'live and let live' - but I do think that the way that principle works in practice can be markedly different.

Thank you very much for your time.  I would very much like to hear more, if you have the patience.


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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

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Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 9:36:25 AM   
eihwaz


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer
How do you pronounce that? It doesn't sound like something rude, does it?

It's Internet shorthand for Christian, mostly used by folks who talk about religion a lot but who aren't necessarily religious, more from a sociological or anthropological perspective.  It's faster to type...

Like Xmas instead of Christmas.


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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 11:38:57 AM   
BonesFromAsh


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Madame4a

yep.. you're not an expert.. and neither am I.. but I consider myself a practicing Wiccan... and its really a lot more complicated than that.. and not quite so narrow...




I agree, it really is more complicated, which is why I said I wasn't an expert. What I was trying to express is that Wicca is more than a Goddess only religion, which was the impression I got from the OP's question and reference to "who would make a better teacher".

FWIW....I would fall somewhere inbetween one of those earth-based "denomination" I mentioned with a bit of this and that from other faiths thrown in for good measure.

I'm sorry you seemed to take offense when none was intended.

< Message edited by BonesFromAsh -- 4/8/2011 11:41:47 AM >

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 11:44:37 AM   
gothikbutterfly


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Wiccan

as

well

as

a

Sifsgydhja(Priestess-of-Sif)

in

the

Church

of

Asatru.

Not

dominant,

but

still

Pagan&proud

< Message edited by gothikbutterfly -- 4/8/2011 11:50:08 AM >

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 12:19:09 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Thank you very much for your time.  I would very much like to hear more, if you have the patience.[/color]



My pleasure, LP, but I'm not sure how much more I could say. I'm a long, long way from being an expert on this subject.

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 12:40:29 PM   
LaTigresse


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gothikbutterfly

Wiccan

as

well

as

a

Sifsgydhja(Priestess-of-Sif)

in

the

Church

of

Asatru.

Not

dominant,

but

still

Pagan&proud


Just an FYI and purely my point of view but your style of posting is exceedingly annoying. I am sure you think it is cool or some such bullshit but it's a motherfucker to read and will be ignored by many. 

If you seriously have something important you want others to read, try writing it in a way that is easy to do so.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 1:12:17 PM   
Madame4a


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You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
Scratches all down my back to keep me right on

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Wicca and Dominant women - 4/8/2011 2:34:22 PM   
VaguelyCurious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

See P...and I still have to think that if you called someone's faith "fluffy horseshit" and mocked him in a pub in England, you would be just as likely to have that bloke coming across the table at you with at least harsh words if not directed fists as you would in the U.S. with the exact same statement...

You might still have to think that, my love, but I'm afraid you'd be wrong. Religion's considered fair game in England, and the religious are expected to have a sense of humour and a thick skin. The bloke would, as Peon said, react with likely no more than a tut and an eye-roll. I'm not kidding when I say there's a massive cultural difference. Which is why you won't ever see me make a religious joke on these forums, because I have *no idea* where the boundary is.

It's interesting that you reacted to RF's post by saying that Wicca is an accepted religion. I don't think anyone's debating that. In fact I'd bet a considerable amount of money that RF would be equally dismissive of any religion. That's the prevailing cultural tone here, much to the dismay of the Church of England...

<grammar edit>


< Message edited by VaguelyCurious -- 4/8/2011 2:35:34 PM >


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