quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

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ORIGINAL: gothikbutterfly

Wiccan

as

well

as

a

Sifsgydhja(Priestess-of-Sif)

in

the

Church

of

Asatru.

Not

dominant,

but

still

Pagan&proud

Just an FYI and purely my point of view but your style of posting is exceedingly annoying. I am sure you think it is cool or some such bullshit but it's a motherfucker to read and will be ignored by many. 

If you seriously have something important you want others to read, try writing it in a way that is easy to do so.

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

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ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

See P...and I still have to think that if you called someone's faith "fluffy horseshit" and mocked him in a pub in England, you would be just as likely to have that bloke coming across the table at you with at least harsh words if not directed fists as you would in the U.S. with the exact same statement...

You might still have to think that, my love, but I'm afraid you'd be wrong. Religion's considered fair game in England, and the religious are expected to have a sense of humour and a thick skin. The bloke would, as Peon said, react with likely no more than a tut and an eye-roll. I'm not kidding when I say there's a massive cultural difference. Which is why you won't ever see me make a religious joke on these forums, because I have *no idea* where the boundary is.

It's interesting that you reacted to RF's post by saying that Wicca is an accepted religion. I don't think anyone's debating that. In fact I'd bet a considerable amount of money that RF would be equally dismissive of any religion. That's the prevailing cultural tone here, much to the dismay of the Church of England...

<grammar edit>

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious
You might still have to think that, my love, but I'm afraid you'd be wrong. Religion's considered fair game in England, and the religious are expected to have a sense of humour and a thick skin. The bloke would, as Peon said, react with likely no more than a tut and an eye-roll. I'm not kidding when I say there's a massive cultural difference. Which is why you won't ever see me make a religious joke on these forums, because I have *no idea* where the boundary is.

It's interesting that you reacted to RF's post by saying that Wicca is an accepted religion. I don't think anyone's debating that. In fact I'd bet a considerable amount of money that RF would be equally dismissive of any religion. That's the prevailing cultural tone here, much to the dismay of the Church of England...

<grammar edit>

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Again, very fascinating from My perspective.

Would you go so far as to say we Americans might be seen as too sensitive about the subject in comparison?

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ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Fast reply.

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ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

I wouldn't say too sensitive so much as bloody mental.

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

First things first.  The dancing in the moonlight or by the fire bit rocks!  If you haven't done it, put it on your bucket list, because it is pretty awesome.

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I actually know very little about various faiths, so the above was quite interesting to Me.  Oddly enough, in clip's career in the military, he has had seven different trainings for his MOS depending on what slot needed to be filled for the unit.  One of them, believe it or not, was Minister's Assistant.  Just a fun little factoid.

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No surprise there.  I suppose it would be the same as any other "group" where a commonality is all that was consistent among the members.  We tell folks the same thing about BDSM folks as a whole.  Doesn't mean that we aren't all over the spectrum on everything else.

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I happen to think that any person of faith has to come to terms with the highlighted above.  I know that I had to do so when I was coming into sadism.  Even without matters of faith, we are taught from a young age that it isn't acceptable to physically hurt people.  That was part of the process for Me and I don't think I'm alone in that.

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The best that I can offer on that issue is, even in sadism, the conflict is removed because I make the distinction between hurt and harm.  It took Me a while to grasp the concept of pain being a form of love to the masochist who receives it.  Once I did, it helped Me to get over the hurdle of the contrast that seemed to be present in My beliefs. To this day, I still admit that I might be wrong on the subject.  If I am, God and I will sort that out when I get there.

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ORIGINAL: Aynne88

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: gothikbutterfly

Wiccan

as

well

as

a

Sifsgydhja(Priestess-of-Sif)

in

the

Church

of

Asatru.

Not

dominant,

but

still

Pagan&proud

Just an FYI and purely my point of view but your style of posting is exceedingly annoying. I am sure you think it is cool or some such bullshit but it's a motherfucker to read and will be ignored by many. 

If you seriously have something important you want others to read, try writing it in a way that is easy to do so.

D
I
T
T
O

.  Seriously wtf was that?

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ORIGINAL: porcelaine
This is one of the many reasons why you rock! i'll pass the suggestion along. :)

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One of the biggest issues with Neo-Paganism is the blending. It is viewed as penny pinching from various things and presenting it as whatever you wish to call it. The practice has offended many groups and led to a tightening of the reins on what is or isn't accessible. While i think religion and spirituality are vastly different, i'm cognizant of personal modifications and wouldn't present them as the original if they strayed too far. Believe it or not i'm not surprised by that. Clip appears very level-headed and your influence would make him an ideal person for that job. A little tolerance goes a very long way.

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You're correct. The same holds true in all groups. Nevertheless you have starry-eyed newcomers that are expecting a campfire setting and they're severely disappointed when that doesn't occur. It's the microcosm that they can't wrap their mind around. We're simply a snapshot within a small sliver of the larger pie, but we aren't that different. We bring all that other stuff in with us.

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The problem i encountered in this area is the proliferation of people that are not of faith or walk paths that won't coalesce with mine in a harmonic fashion. The other issue relates to mental stability, and i don't say that to be rude. But people that veer towards the edges i enjoy aren't always wrapped tight. So it's definitely a balancing act on several planes and i've found a happy medium along with some necessary checks and balances. In my opinion faith brings something to the picture that is noticeably absent when it isn't there.

Truthfully, it's taken Me years to get here.  I'm sure that there are some folks out there who don't think I'm wrapped all that tight.    I just do the best that I can on any given day.

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One of the things that helped me reconcile this was viewing my masochism in a healthy light. i'm not a slab and no matter how much i enjoy being hurt or treated less than, it's very important that i don't lose touch with my humanity. The other side of this was seeking a benevolent partner. When i detect emptiness i wonder silently what fills that space. And i silently ponder if i'm willing to put myself at risk to answer that question. Much like my masochism, his sadism must flow through the right channels.

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In my opinion Ma'am, Your heart says it all. i have a sneaking suspicion it is in the right place. You've never shown me differently.

Namaste,

~porcelaine

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ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

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ORIGINAL: CreepyStalker

I wouldn't say too sensitive so much as bloody mental.

That's my girlfriend, ever the tactful one...

Is that Americans as a whole, though, or just the crazy TV evangelist mentalists?

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ORIGINAL: LadyPact

Don't pass it.  Do it!  I promise that it is so much fun.

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I highly agree.  The highlighted above is exactly why I prefer to identify as a person of faith, rather than a religious person.  Much of organized religion has failed.  The "church" in and of itself, on many occasions has lost their way.  Ever wonder how many people could have been fed rather than buy a stained glass window?  I don't do well with that.

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It's the same on the other side.  Empathy in sadism.  I find it essential.

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Thank you.  I appreciated this greatly.

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ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I do not think the crazy TV evangelicals represent the American public at large. I think there are a fair number of Americans that are of the more extreme variety but I also think there are a great number that do not particularly care one way or another but are afraid enough of going to hell to express, or even actively think, it's all horse feathers.

Then you have a fair number that reject the whole lot, many of whom have no compunction in expressing that in some way or another.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyNTrainer

Fast reply.

The main reason I am not a practicing Pagan, or a practicing anything, is that I got majorly sick of hearing shit like, "I was initiated by my grandmother, who was the last of the great Elvish ninja masters from Atlantis, and when I put an amethyst crystal on my third eye chakra, I can read the Tarot cards and have this total psychic bond with my pet canary.  My Indian spirit guide is named Dances With Credit Cards." 

Yeah.  That's fluff.  But every single religion, none excepted, attracts a fringe element of crazies and fluffies.  They tend to be the loudest and most obvious, so they're the ones you see first.  My family has had some very, very bad experiences with nut case Christians, but that doesn't mean all Christians are violent criminals who slash tires and throw bricks through windows and try to kill people.  Nor do all Christians allow their diabetic children to die with no medical treatment because they decide to "put their faith in God" and ignore modern medicine.  But some do, and they tend to make the six o'clock news when they do their thing.  That still doesn't justify being rude to all Christians or blaming them for the unbalanced behavior and beliefs of their most visible fringe element.

I grew up in the Pagan community and I've seen plenty of fluffies.  They upset my digestion, and I won't speak to them as it would drive me batty in short order.  I am a scientist and a rationalist, and any form of religious crazy-talk that confuses spirituality with hard physical reality will upset my digestion.  I don't care whether you package it as Jesus or the Goddess, if it doesn't work in the real world as a reliably replicable effect, I don't want to hear about it.  I've also met some brilliant people who appreciate a simple, earth-based spirituality without letting it cloud their intellect or their rationality.  And those are the Pagans I respect.  In general, I think the Pagan and Native/earth based religion outlook on responsible stewardship of natural resources is a hell of a lot more functional than any of the monotheist views in the bigger picture of long term species survival.

As for myself, I see the Goddess - archetypal and mythical perhaps, but still Gaea and Goddess - in the unseen spiral of DNA, in the long inexorability of evolution itself, in the laws of physics and nature that hold us all.  For She is those things, no more and no less.  I don't believe in deities as literal beings with sentience, certainly not the kind that peer in your bedroom window and care who you have sex with or what you ate for breakfast.  But I do have a sense of awe and wonder about the mysteries that are constantly revealed to us by science.  And I have a deep respect for the importance of our responsibility to the ecosystem we live in and depend on for the very air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat.  Fuck that shit up at your peril; poor stewardship may condemn your children or their children to death or starvation.  And so it is not entirely senseless to call her Gaea and to honor her as the Mother who nurtures us.  Because in a very literal biological sense, that is what She is - life itself, and the continuation of life. 

I can't think of many better things for a culture to call sacred, or many better models for responsible management of natural resources.  The fluffy stuff and the fringe element is not the core of any religion, and it's worth looking at the bigger picture and the more serious elements of any faith before passing judgment on how healthy and functional it is. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: VaguelyCurious

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I do not think the crazy TV evangelicals represent the American public at large. I think there are a fair number of Americans that are of the more extreme variety but I also think there are a great number that do not particularly care one way or another but are afraid enough of going to hell to express, or even actively think, it's all horse feathers.

Then you have a fair number that reject the whole lot, many of whom have no compunction in expressing that in some way or another.

I have no doubt that what you're saying is true - but the... baseline sensitivity, maybe? is noticeably higher among Americans. That doesn't mean that all Americans are equally religious - I'd still expect there to be a spread - but the average American is noticeably more religious than the average Brit.