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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 8:34:10 AM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		OK, Ming........


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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 8:37:00 AM   
FullCircle


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Not true. It's like deciding if you want volts or amps. There is a measure, a way that many do not understand. To not be fooled or guided by the path of others but not to embrae it. Just to understand it. Put yourslf in the other fella's shoes in other words. All of them, even those you hate ? ESPECIALLY THOSE YOU HATE.

But to get to the answer here, the lack of mutual exclusivity in no way proves any prevarication or "falseness" on the part of the questioner. This assumption is known as post hoc ergo propter hoc. This is a logistical error, which arises when one thinks that when something proceeds an action, that that action was the cause. One cannot assume this.

Whilst voltage is directly related to current through formulas such as v = ir, justice is in no way mathematically related to mercy. They can't be quantified and so there is no basis to suggest they are related or the opposite of one another. There is no reason you can't have both or equally value both. It isn't or it's and. The question is flawed because it's a false choice.


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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 8:44:49 AM   
JstAnotherSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

OK, Ming........


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Ah heck, I wouldn't go that far.....I mean I am smart and all that, but......



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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 9:27:34 AM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
A society cannot exist without justice but it certainly can without mercy…history has proven it over and over.



Really? When?


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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 9:41:55 AM   
kdsub


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How much mercy did the Germans feel for the Jews...or the Jews for the Palestinians...The Japanese for the Chinese...The colonials for the Indian or slave…on and on.

All these societies had or have a justice system essential for their existence yet showed little mercy for other peoples.

Butch

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 10:00:14 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Justice is not justice unless tempered with mercy, and mercy is meaningless without justice. You can't value one without cherishing the other.



This

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:09:22 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Justice is not justice unless tempered with mercy, and mercy is meaningless without justice. You can't value one without cherishing the other.



Which of course is not the question I asked. Of course you can value both justice and mercy, I certainly do.

But, when push comes to shove, and you're in a position where you have to choose between them, which do you choose.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:13:10 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Justice. Period.

As for mercy, show the same amount the person showed their victim(s), which usually is nada.



A point well made. Not the 'justice period' bit.

You're talking of justice, logic, reason, objectivity etc. Fair enough. Mercy omes from an altogether different place.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:14:33 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Fellow

Mercy.  Helping somebody out of their misery.
 



Thanks Fellow. Not sure I agree that advocating mercy is the same as what you suggest, but I think I take the point.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:17:42 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Justice.

And I believe that justice can be served by mercy. That is if someone is deserving of a hand up, we should.



Is that not the same as justice, T?

Mercy is not about deserving.

Let's see:

You have known someone for years, you don't like that person, then they steal from you.

Do you expect justice and inform the police, or do you show them mercy and talk it through and try to help that person?

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:23:18 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullCircle

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Which is more important to you?

They aren't mutually exclusive so the question is based on a false premise.



Humour me, please. I'm a bit stupid so bear with me.

Which is more important to you? When push comes to shove. Gun to your head. Which would you choose.

Choice. I like chips and I like fish, but when asked to choose I'd go for one. I can make that distinction when pressed.

Right, how are we?, meeting of minds?

Good.

Fucking knuckle down and get on with the question.

Thanks

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:25:54 AM   
hlen5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Justice is much more important than mercy…A society cannot exist without justice but it certainly can without mercy…history has proven it over and over.

Butch


But how long would such a society last?


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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:31:13 AM   
hlen5


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Status: offline 		A world without mercy is not a place where I would want to live.

Gun to my head, make the choice, mercy.

What is justice? To JAS, from her place of loss, justice is a bullet. It seems to me justice is more subjective, depending on your perspective.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:31:57 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I don't know but all those I mentioned are still around...granted some have changed over the years but only when their needs permitted or they were forced to do so.


I guess what I am trying to say is mercy is not necessary for a civilization but justice is so a justice system is the most important of the two even if it sounds heartless.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 4/9/2011 11:34:15 AM >

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:32:44 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Justice is much more important than mercy…A society cannot exist without justice but it certainly can without mercy…history has proven it over and over.

Butch


But how long would such a society last?



A society cannot possibly exist without mercy in abundant volume, and this point really shouldn't need explaining.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:36:01 AM   
tazzygirl


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quote:

I don't know but all those I mentioned are still around...granted some have changed over the years but only when their needs permitted or they were forced to do so.


And who did the forcing or permitting? Someone had mercy on the Jews, the slaves, the "indians", ect ect ect... and forced change.

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:36:04 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I just don't see how you can say that faced with human history...but I guess we perceive that history differently.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:37:57 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		tazzy was mercy the driving force behind the changes?

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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:38:17 AM   
ChatteParfaitt


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

hi Panda

How much mercy did the Germans feel for the Jews...or the Jews for the Palestinians...The Japanese for the Chinese...The colonials for the Indian or slave…on and on.

All these societies had or have a justice system essential for their existence yet showed little mercy for other peoples.

Butch


True, and those societies didn't last long. As a matter of fact, all are known for their uprisings or serious retribution from their neighbors.

Where are the colonial empires now? Where are the Nazi's now? The imperial Japanese?

Justice w/o mercy may work in the short room, history has proven it does not in the long run.


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RE: Justice or Mercy - 4/9/2011 11:39:51 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: hlen5

A world without mercy is not a place where I would want to live.

Gun to my head, make the choice, mercy.

What is justice? To JAS, from her place of loss, justice is a bullet. It seems to me justice is more subjective, depending on your perspective.



I'd agree with you, Hlen, in that mercy is my preferred choice. To me justice is a rule, regulation, pragmatic stance that enables us to coexist, and important it is too. But mercy is at the very core of what it means to be a human being, or at least what it means for me to be a human being.

If someone stole from me would I want justice? Why do I care? Does it help me if someone spends time in jail? Not really. But does it help me to empathise with another human being knowing that given certain circumstances I could be in that place, too? Course it does.

And perhaps empathy is the quality or hinderance (depending upon point of view) that drives the opinion.

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