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ORIGINAL: Awareness

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ORIGINAL: diablarosa
How do you have contempt for people you don't know personally just based on what gives them peace or turns them on sexually or psychosexually? Maybe we hate what we fear or dont understand? I think it's odd to make generalizations without knowing the individuals personally. I know some pretty submissive doms out there... consider daddy doms. I also know some pretty domineering submissive men, too.

 

Those people are merely confused and not grounded in reality.

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ORIGINAL: Awareness
A guy whose weakness will let him submit to a woman is not a useful ally.  I find amusing the way in which Dommes and others attempt to reframe this as strength.

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ORIGINAL: Awareness
While it's an individual thing, acting like a submissive male is not going to be near the top of that scale for a lot of men.

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Unless you think you can run a company by asking nicely for shit to be done.

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ORIGINAL: NiceGuyNihilist

It's a question I've wanted to ask male Doms for quite some time, but I could never muster the guts. When you see a man allowing a woman to rule him, do you find yourself involuntarily shuddering in revulsion? Does the very concept of a submissive male fly against your ideals? Years ago, when I had just entered the scene, I found myself befriended by an experienced Dom who had just this attitude. He gave me to understand that he saw my switch status as a sort of intermediate stage on the way to better things. After I had been spanked by a woman at a play party, he later sent me a text message saying that once I had been doing kink a while, I would no longer "regress." I was piqued to say the least.

Later, after we'd had a falling out (one that was entirely my fault, incidentally), he vented his anger by calling me a "substandard male" for letting a woman take me anally. If I remember right, he even went so far as to say or imply that a man who had ever let himself be anally penetrated for sex, especially by a woman, was by definition beyond redemption as an upright and respectable individual. (I can see his perspective without agreeing with it. Logically, if women are the inferior sex, and if it's a disgraceful thing for a man to be fucked, then it's more disgraceful for a man to be fucked by a woman than by a man because it implies willing surrender to a natural inferior.)

I find myself wondering how often other Doms harbor feelings that are similar to his, if possibly less intense and uncompromising. Obviously, I wouldn't expect them to be forthcoming about such feelings at a party or a munch. So: do you have contempt for submissive males, and if so, why? I won't argue with you, however much I may disagree; for the purposes of this thread, I only want to see your point of view.

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ORIGINAL: diablarosa
Confusion? Sometimes. Other times i'd say they're multifaceted. Like Tolkien said, not all who wander are lost.

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Not a useful ally to YOU, and those who think like you, I guess. btw, are you denying that submission--REAL submission, not being a needy and desperate little pervert or sissy panzy that gets bent out of shape when he doesn't get his way with his opedial fantasy--doesn't take strength?

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ORIGINAL: Awareness
So? It's an individual thing, as you just said yourself. I find a lot of men at the top of that scale you speak of are actually pretty weak in their precious masculinity, I'd remind you. more often than not, I think the guys who have a problem with male submission pan out to actually be pussies themselves!

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The rest of your reply is somewhat asinine, because you're avoiding the point, and obviously not totally grounded in reality. The world is a bigger and more complex place than you like to think it is, i'm guessing.

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ORIGINAL: AneNoz
All things in life can be accomplished by asking nicely, and most often can be better accomplished by doing so.

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But I am not likely to be amongst those who's opinions you would consider valid, having ovaries rather than testicles.

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I do have a query, though. Why do you fear male submissives so?

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ORIGINAL: AneNoz

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Unless you think you can run a company by asking nicely for shit to be done.

All things in life can be accomplished by asking nicely, and most often can be better accomplished by doing so. But I am not likely to be amongst those who's opinions you would consider valid, having ovaries rather than testicles.

I do have a query, though. Why do you fear male submissives so?

Be at peace
Aneka

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Yes. This is why most business are run by men instead of women and their "ask nicely" approach. Once again, we get back to that grounding in reality thing.

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I tend to find subs are often more comfortable being women and enjoy men who are comfortable being men.

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The idea that someone might examine an opinion using reason and take apart the logic is something which frightens them, so I do understand your fear

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Why do you have rape fantasies?

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If you want to be a success, you have to crack some skulls on your way to the top.

Luckily you can be a trophy wife to someone that has done this.

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ORIGINAL: AneNoz
Your response shows a marked inability to understand what was said. The reason why most businesses are male controlled is of a social nature and is not connected with your strange ideas of the proper interactions of men and women. Nor does it have a connection with being rude, politeness is always the better choice.

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This is, of course, so obvious as to not need stating. What has escaped you, perhaps, is that the submissive men you hold in contempt are men and, I suspect, for the most part they are comfortable being so.

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I do not understand your reference here. I am in no fear. If you mean to imply I fear you as a debating opponent, well you would be mistaken. Such a fear would require a far better equipped opponent.

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Deflecting a question by attempting to insult the one asking is a debating tactic worthy of a child. I find I am not taken aback that you reverted to it.

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Your fear of those you condemn is clear as crystal in what you write. Your words betray your mask. Perhaps you should examine your opinion with truth and not with bluster. You name yourself Awareness, the first step to true awareness is self awareness.

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I have never cracked a skull and I would define myself as successful. My Beloveds and I do not work or hold jobs, we have no need to as I have adequate resources to support our lifestyle for many lifetimes.

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And I am forbidden to marry by my beliefs, so a trophy wife is not an option for me, even if it were attractive to me. And yes, I do see that this last was said in jest, but still I felt it should be responded to.

Be at peace
Aneka

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ORIGINAL: Awareness

I'm afraid that opinion reveals a stunning lack of thought.  If - as you allege - the reasons why men control business is a social effect, then logically that would imply that men control society.  That simply shifts the discussion from "why do men control the majority of businesses", to "why do men control the majority of society".

If you seriously think this has been accomplished through politeness, then your model of the world needs substantial work.  I commend to you a study of history - particularly Chinese history - and you'll discover that the world in which we exist has been purchased with more bloodshed than you could possibly imagine.  Your naive notions are very clearly rocognisable for the quaint empty-headed idealism that it is.

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If you seriously think this has been accomplished through politeness, then your model of the world needs substantial work.  I commend to you a study of history - particularly Chinese history - and you'll discover that the world in which we exist has been purchased with more bloodshed than you could possibly imagine.  Your naive notions are very clearly rocognisable for the quaint empty-headed idealism that it is.

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And the statement you're responding to was my reply to the idea that I don't respect your opinion because you're a woman.

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*laugh*  You mock yourself and are blind to it.

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  Yes.  Which is exactly why you did it previously.  I did exactly the same thing as you did.  I posited a non sequitur then expected you to respond to it.  You posited a non sequitur - asking why I feared submissive men - and expected me to respond to it.

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Your inability to tolerate dissenting opinion is - I'm afraid - a classic sign of weakness.

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The mistake which you've made is to presume that because someone has a diametrically opposed world-view to yours, that this says something about who they are as an individual. 

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Basically, what offends you - and indeed others - is that I dare to hold these views.  What makes it worse is that I can explain them articulately and don't feel the need to apologise for them.

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It's good you at least understand the concept of self-awareness.  I suggest you try applying it.  Then ask yourself why you've responded in this way.  The answer is less flattering than you'd like to imagine.

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So if you lost all of your resources within a week, what would you have to fall back on? Could you find yourself recapturing your former comfortable living? From the looks of it, you sound like you were born into a privileged life and I would not deem that as personal success. I was born into upper-class but I do not delude myself into thinking this way. If I went into a business, you can guarantee I would backstab my best friend in a second if it meant that future offspring could live as I did.

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Damn, there goes my future proposal. =(

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If I lost it all I would but begin anew. You are incorrect in assuming I come from a place of privilege. My father was wealthy and he gave my mother a stipend to allow a comfortable life of a petit bourgeois status as is appropriate for the support of a honoured lover who has a bastard to raise. From this beginning I built a business which was a success and when it was sold I had a sizable sum, which through judicious investments I have quickly built to become my wealth, and continue to do so. Never once did I crack a skull or stab anybody from behind to do this. It was done according to the teachings of My Goddess, with kindness, compassion, and joy.

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I am sorry I have upset your plans. Might I suggest my half-sister? She is younger and prettier, and thus more probably to your taste.

Be at peace
Aneka

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63
I've studied a fair amount of history myself, and you're correct that the world has been built on a great deal of bloodshed. However, I'm not sure why you would single out Chinese history. There are also examples from European and American history to draw upon to prove the point. But we also have had diplomacy and politics (aka "politeness"), which is really how civilization had to have been built. If it was just one long blood-letting, then we never would have gotten out of the stone age. We'd still be in a state of nature, just like animals. The social contract is "politeness."