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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 9:20:38 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
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quote:

Perhaps if you had followed the thread, you would have known that I made a statement early in this thread that people hold in contempt that which they fear. You clearly hold submissive men in contempt, and thus fear them on some level. Perhaps their mere existence challenges your misguided ideas regarding the proper place and roles of the sexes.



This is not true. You made that statement to include anyone who has contempt for something. I do not fear anything I have contempt for and I suspect I am not unique in that regard. I am around submissive males in the lifestyle club and why would I fear the submissive male? Will he somehow take something from me? Will he harm me by the tears he cries when I slap the "jack wagon" in the face and tell him this is not "mamby pamby land"? Will he suddenly reveal that my maleness correctly expressed in it's proper and natural dominate form is somehow unnatural and I should now learn to be submissive and the female in high heels and soft curves and pouty red lips should be my Lord and Master and I should fear and subject myself to her?

I fear not.

_____________________________

"We master Our world."

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Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 9:26:41 PM   
AneNoz


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I do not address the norm or average, only the assertion that it must be the way you stated. It does not have to be so. This world could be a place of joy and peace if we wish it so. It is a conscious choice to be brutish, it is not foreordained. And I must strongly disagree that the end justifies the means. This is the opposite of what I have been taught. The way one proceeds in life is more important than where one reaches.

quote:

Only if she has a pretty name like yours.
Nadeera. Is this acceptable?

Be at peace
Aneka


(in reply to NocturnalStalker)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 9:36:45 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
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quote:

Will he suddenly reveal that my maleness correctly expressed in it's proper and natural dominate form
Herein lies the flaw.There is nothing proper or natural about dominance that is inherent with maleness.

quote:

Will he harm me by the tears he cries when I slap the "jack wagon" in the face and tell him this is not "mamby pamby land"?
Ah, now I understand, you are one of those who claims dominance so as to hide the fact that you are but a bully.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 9:44:58 PM   
NocturnalStalker


Posts: 3858
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quote:

I do not address the norm or average, only the assertion that it must be the way you stated. It does not have to be so. This world could be a place of joy and peace if we wish it so. It is a conscious choice to be brutish, it is not foreordained. And I must strongly disagree that the end justifies the means. This is the opposite of what I have been taught. The way one proceeds in life is more important than where one reaches.


Nobody is really taught to be barbaric but if you stand around waiting for a slice of cake you'll be left with nothing.  Is the concept of a world with joy/peace entertaining?  Certainly.  Is it a "perfect" world?  To you, possibly, but to me it is flawed.  Conflict is needed as twisted as that sounds.  If everybody stood around and asked permission then any person could simply attain what you have by asking nicely.  That is simply unrealistic.  You need your boundaries of what you have to work for.  Even right now we may have a civil discussion however you did make a jab to Awareness in an earlier post.  Even with your beliefs you still succumbed to the aggressive nature all humans have.  It is not really as much of a flaw as you think if you know how to control it for a constructive purpose.  Working off a universal view (which is what world peace would more than likely have to consent to if it were to work) makes me think that we'd lose some of our humanity.

quote:

Nadeera. Is this acceptable?

Be at peace
Aneka




She will make an excellent harem girl.






_____________________________

"The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul."

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 10:02:10 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
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quote:

Just by going over some of the pics and stats in some of the profiles, there are some submissive males who look like they could clean the clocks of some of the shorter and weedier male dominants. So, if we're going to go by natural law, then there's that to consider.


I've considered it.

Consider this: You presuppose the "shorter and weedier (seedier?)" male dominants you observed were actually male dominants and the male submissives you observed were actually submissives. After a while on this site you will come to realize this is not always true.

But what is true no matter where you are or who you are is the normal healthy male will dominate and that is the order of nature.

< Message edited by Arturas -- 4/28/2011 10:05:05 PM >


_____________________________

"We master Our world."

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Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 10:07:17 PM   
AneNoz


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quote:

Conflict is needed as twisted as that sounds.
I do not see it as so much needed as unavoidable. But even so, conflicts need not be resolved with barbarism. It can be resolved with civility and gentleness as well.

quote:

If everybody stood around and asked permission then any person could simply attain what you have by asking nicely.  That is simply unrealistic.
Of course, yes I agree that would be unrealistic. I worked very hard for what I have attained. But I did it with dignity and kindness in my heart. I was honest in my dealings, and compassionate to all I dealt with.

quote:

Even with your beliefs you still succumbed to the aggressive nature all humans have.  It is not really as much of a flaw as you think if you know how to control it for a constructive purpose.
Yes, I admit I allowed myself to be provoked and my anger to get the better of me. I am but human and My Goddess is forgiving of our frailty. I do try to control my baser instincts, and most often succeed. My wish is that others would do so as well.

quote:

She will make an excellent harem girl.
You will be paying with goats?

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to NocturnalStalker)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 10:09:13 PM   
Awareness


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz
Never once did I say that the world was in fact run on a basis of politeness, I did say that politeness is the better option. Surely even you can see the difference, no?  And I have studied history, what has been does not alter what should be. We have the ability to chose  our path, we are not bound to repeat the errors of the past. And my empty-headed idealism has kept my people alive for centuries in a world that has made every effort to eradicate them.
  *sigh*  No.  Politeness is merely one aspect of the multi-faceted approach one must have in the prosecution of politics.  Politics, is the movement of power in social groups.  War is the continuation of politics by other means.  Anyone who feels that politeness is a better option will rapidly come to appreciate the foolhardiness of this notion when confronted by an enemy who is prepared to ruthlessly kill and lay waste.
quote:

My notions are not naive, they are based on the teachings of a long line of very wise women, who's understanding of the world and its people exceeds yours. like so many, you fear what you do not understand and so you belittle it so as to make yourself feel superior. It is as I said before.
  You derive your world-view from a single woman?  I derive it from both women and men.  Machiavelli, Napoleon, Ovid, Alexander the Great, Sun Tzu, Ninon de L'Enclos, Roosevelt, Mao Tse-Tung, 50 cent.  History is replete with lessons to be learned about the nature of humanity, the reality of who we are and the ways in which we gain and lose both personal and political power.

quote:

Then perhaps it would have been wise to have stated such, rather than to simply say subs prefer such and such. I did not realize you considered yourself a sub, so I did not connect the stated preference of subs with you. In the future I will keep in mind that you consider yourself a sub, yet mask yourself as a Dom. This is good to know.
  *shakes head*  Clearly you learn the hard way.  Having made the mistake of engaging in one non sequitur, you now commit the sin of engaging in a second. 


quote:

There is no self mockery in admitting difficulty understanding a thing said in a foreign language. This is doubly so when the statement made is vague and unclear. But as evidenced by your previous section, it would appear that this is a deliberate thing on your part.
  You mock yourself by making claims of superiority with no supporting evidence and little understanding of your opponent.


quote:

Perhaps if you had followed the thread, you would have known that I made a statement early in this thread that people hold in contempt that which they fear. You clearly hold submissive men in contempt, and thus fear them on some level. Perhaps their mere existence challenges your misguided ideas regarding the proper place and roles of the sexes.
  No, I noticed it and dismissed it as nonsense.  When you then attempt to imply as much without a shred of supporting evidence, it's a non sequitur.  Thus, I treated it with the contempt it deserved and manipulated you into condemning your own tactic.

quote:

I am not incapable of tolerating dissenting opinion, it is you that have repeatedly done so on this thread and others. I am of the belief that all opinions should be accepted and seen on the strength of their merits, not evaluated through a lens of preconception.
  Nonsense.  I responded to the question and have discussed my views with those who sought to make comment on them.  However what do you describe as "the strength of their merits"?  How can you determine if a view has merit?   By the degree to which it accords with your own?

quote:

quote:

The mistake which you've made is to presume that because someone has a diametrically opposed world-view to yours, that this says something about who they are as an individual. 
I have not done so, it is you. I have assumed a fear on your part because your words and stated position reveal such a fear. You have assumed a nonexistent weakness on my part based on an intolerance which you imagined. This is the reason and logic of which you boast.
  You've inferred fear from your own world-view.  Your idea of reason is "If you fear something you hold it in contempt", a position which is perilously unsupported by evidence or reason and readily subject to contradiction by real-world example.  It also doesn't take much in the way of imagination to realise that a lesbian dominant is going to have a diametrically opposed world-view to a dominant heterosexual male.  Indeed, your characterisation of my approach as machismo - excessive masculinity - reveals a fear and hatred of that masculinity.

quote:

It is not your views that annoyed me, nor your ability to explain them, nor your lack of a need to apologize for them. It is the arrogance with which you expound them and the dismissive nature of your replies. You attempt to insult with every post you make. You may or may not hold the views you claim, but you present them in a way so as to annoy, and this is a deliberate ploy on your part. Perhaps you are but a shit disturber (I hope I have this term correct).
  No.  I'm simply unapologetic and I don't tolerate nonsense of any kind.  What you fail to understand is that people with a strong reality present it as truth.  In real terms, truth is subjective.  In social terms, the strongest reality dominates.  I'm not ashamed of my views and I have no fear of stating them without feeling the need to use qualifiers such as "I believe" or "In my humble opinion".

How I reply is a function of the content I'm replying to.  There's a frequent automatic assumption on these boards that the viewpoints of women are correct.  Thus, female dominants are indulged more frequently than is healthy.  Consequently when confronted with a contrary opinion, they reveal their character by responding - as you did - with an unreasoning anger based on their feelings of entitlement.

quote:

quote:

It's good you at least understand the concept of self-awareness.  I suggest you try applying it.  Then ask yourself why you've responded in this way.  The answer is less flattering than you'd like to imagine.
This I simply had to smile at. Self-awareness and self- examination are the cornerstone of my way of life. I responded in the way I did because I was foolish and allowed your deliberate attempts to provoke to succeed. So yes, I agree the reason is unflattering.
  Well done.  My perception was that your ego responded.  The non sequitur I presented to you was a deliberate attempt to provoke - and it was bait.  Aside from that, I haven't deliberately provoked, I've simply responded with a very firmly held set of beliefs.  The fact that these beliefs are in the minority on these boards is irrelevant to me.  I speculate that part of the problem may stem from the fact that female dominants are so used to talking down to men, they react poorly when confronted with one who simply won't tolerate it.

quote:

It saddens me that one must be so bitter and angry in this life which is meant to be a joy. I will pray to My Goddess that you be granted peace and happiness.
  *grin*  Part of the problem with this medium is that it's hard to convey the subtle nuances of tone and facial expression.  So when I grin at your response, it's hard to convey that it's honest good humour and bemusement.

I say this because again, our world-views are simply different.  Your perception of me lacks insight of course, but I also don't believe that life is "meant" to be anything.  I believe it simply is.  Life is serendipitous.  A happy accident that gives us a brief moment of existence.  That brings a multitude of people into existence and puts them through a myriad of experiences.  But I will divert from our conflict for a moment to explore one singular idea.

What would you say is the principle source of joy in our lives?


_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 10:18:52 PM   
Arturas


Posts: 3245
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz

quote:

Will he suddenly reveal that my maleness correctly expressed in it's proper and natural dominate form
Herein lies the flaw.There is nothing proper or natural about dominance that is inherent with maleness.

quote:

Will he harm me by the tears he cries when I slap the "jack wagon" in the face and tell him this is not "mamby pamby land"?
Ah, now I understand, you are one of those who claims dominance so as to hide the fact that you are but a bully.

Be at peace
Aneka




Herein lies the flaw: I have all of nature to support my position. But what have you? What is unnatural about dominance inherent with maleness?

Ah, now I understand, you are the one who claims self righteous reason while using my rhetorical question to justify name calling.




< Message edited by Arturas -- 4/28/2011 10:25:57 PM >


_____________________________

"We master Our world."

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Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 10:20:51 PM   
NocturnalStalker


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quote:

I do not see it as so much needed as unavoidable. But even so, conflicts need not be resolved with barbarism. It can be resolved with civility and gentleness as well.


I'll agree to that, it is what we're doing right now are we not? =p
Though I was always of the belief there is a time and place for everything. 

quote:

Of course, yes I agree that would be unrealistic. I worked very hard for what I have attained. But I did it with dignity and kindness in my heart. I was honest in my dealings, and compassionate to all I dealt with.


It is good you were one of the rare exceptions, but what I am proposing is that when you gauge how most become successful in that field not to apply a rare exception to rule out the majority.  Could you be a success if done your way?  Obviously.  Is there a greater likelihood of failure?  Yes. 

quote:

Yes, I admit I allowed myself to be provoked and my anger to get the better of me. I am but human and My Goddess is forgiving of our frailty. I do try to control my baser instincts, and most often succeed. My wish is that others would do so as well.


Don't talk to me about that.  I'm the last person to give insight on being a nice guy.

quote:

You will be paying with goats?

Be at peace
Aneka



I have to pay?!  May I *please* have her for free? 

(Subtle joke)


_____________________________

"The road I walk is paved in gold to glorify my platinum soul."

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 10:27:00 PM   
AneNoz


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quote:

I say this because again, our world-views are simply different.
This is so. Thus further debate on this will be pointless, as it is just arguing to no purpose, which is unhealthy. You have your strongly held views which I hold to be deeply flawed. And I have mine, which you hold to be deeply flawed. I will not persuade you, nor you I.

quote:

What would you say is the principle source of joy in our lives?
The answer depends on the context. If you mean my life personally, then the answer is My Goddess. If you mean your life, then I have no idea, as I cannot begin to imagine living with the world view you hold. If you mean for humanity in general, then the answer is love and the pleasure that is attached to it.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 10:37:12 PM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
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quote:

Herein lies the flaw: I have all of nature to support my position. But what have you? What is unnatural about dominance inherent with maleness?
What have I? Very little, just all of nature, reality, reason, and common sense. There simply is no inherent dominance in maleness or femaleness. Dominance is a personal attribute, it is not a function of gender. Male and female are equal, they are complimentary principles.

quote:

Ah, now I understand, you are the one who claims self righteous reason while using my rhetorical question to justify name calling.
It is not name calling if it is truth.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 10:45:09 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness
Specifically Chinese history because it's the record of a singularly ruthless civilisation over a long period of time.  Chinese history contains millenia of highly strategic maneuverings with the kind of ruthlessness which sees enemies execute the entire dynasty - women and children included - of their conquered foes.  Mercy was rare.  I am hard pressed to think of a similar example.


Perhaps the Mongols. They even managed to conquer the Chinese for a time. It would seem that both of those empires were destroyed from within, from internal squabbling. The Western powers, along with Japan, maintained dominance over China as well. They're back on the upswing again, but they sure had to go through hell to get to this point. Hard to say how long it'll last.

quote:


Politeness is the lubricant which greases the wheels of society.  It has its place, but it's simply an aid toward achieving ends - and indeed, it's a naive view which thinks that 'politeness' is the essence of getting things done.  Part of the problem here is that people have been so coddled by western societies with relatively low levels of conflict that they forget the way in which the real world functions.  Western societies have essentially been built on bloodshed and trade.  The willingness to go to war is an essential component of maintaining those societies.  Anyone who fails to understand this reality is in for a rude awakening.


I actually agree with most of what you're saying here, except only to mention the difference between general civility and politeness within society, among neighbors and fellow countrymen - as opposed to how we might deal with an enemy in a time of war.

Of course, we've had to temper and moderate some of our ways since the advent of nuclear weapons. It's not like how it used to be. We're also signatories to the Kellogg-Briand Pact, which effectively outlawed aggressive war. So, we still go to war, but only under certain circumstances.

I think there's been more of a willingness to go to war in the West than there has been, at least as long as I can remember. There's been more political polarization internally as well. Around here, there's also a crime problem, not to mention border violence and cartel wars. It can get pretty ugly. Perhaps the only solution is a military solution in this case. I wouldn't rule that out. Obviously, we have to protect ourselves. We can't let chaos and lawlessness reign.



(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 11:16:39 PM   
Zonie63


Posts: 2826
Joined: 4/25/2011
From: The Old Pueblo
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arturas

quote:

Just by going over some of the pics and stats in some of the profiles, there are some submissive males who look like they could clean the clocks of some of the shorter and weedier male dominants. So, if we're going to go by natural law, then there's that to consider.


I've considered it.

Consider this: You presuppose the "shorter and weedier (seedier?)" male dominants you observed were actually male dominants and the male submissives you observed were actually submissives. After a while on this site you will come to realize this is not always true.

But what is true no matter where you are or who you are is the normal healthy male will dominate and that is the order of nature.


I've considered that. But not every male necessarily dominates. If there were no followers, there would be no leaders. Some might be better at organizing and planning, while others might be better suited for front-line fighting.

I would also mention that the reason that men traditionally take on the riskier roles, which can lead to pain, injury, and death, is also a numbers game. Men are more expendable, so they have to be ready to suffer pain or even die, so that their women and children can go on living.

(in reply to Arturas)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/28/2011 11:44:12 PM   
Awareness


Posts: 3918
Joined: 9/8/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AneNoz
quote:

What would you say is the principle source of joy in our lives?
The answer depends on the context. If you mean my life personally, then the answer is My Goddess. If you mean your life, then I have no idea, as I cannot begin to imagine living with the world view you hold. If you mean for humanity in general, then the answer is love and the pleasure that is attached to it.
  I was hoping for something a little more generic and universal, but I'll work with what you've given me.

I believe that happiness cannot be found in any external source.  On the contrary, it's internally generated.  That it derives from the ability to take joy in whatever you have.  Around the world, again and again, it has been repeatedly demonstrated that happiness is not derived from wealth, possessions, family, social status or lifestyle.  Happiness is derived from the simple world view that allows you to go outside, look up in the rain, feel it falling on your face and be glad to be alive.

Sometimes this is harder than others.  For some people, their circumstances make this much harder.  However if you can't find the capacity for happiness when you have little, you're not going to discover that capacity when you have much.  When you boil it right down, happiness is derived from how you react to whatever life gives you.


_____________________________

Ever notice how fucking annoying most signatures are? - Yes, I do appreciate the irony.

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RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/29/2011 12:00:16 AM   
AneNoz


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I find nothing to dispute in this. It is as you say.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 115
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/29/2011 12:43:20 AM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
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I apologize for being so late in responding, i got distracted and from my mind it slipped.

quote:

It is good you were one of the rare exceptions, but what I am proposing is that when you gauge how most become successful in that field not to apply a rare exception to rule out the majority. Could you be a success if done your way? Obviously. Is there a greater likelihood of failure? Yes.
I do not think I agree, The majority of those I have known in the business world are honest and do not engage in throat cutting tactics. It pains them when they are forced to let employees go, their word is good, they try to fulfill the spirit of a contract rather than just the words. I think your view is shaded by inexperience in the field. Yes there are dishonest unscrupulous business people and some of them have managed to become very wealthy. But far more have failed, their actions gain them a bad reputation, and in business, one's reputation is all.

quote:

Don't talk to me about that.  I'm the last person to give insight on being a nice guy.
I think you "doth protest too much"

quote:

I have to pay?!  May I *please* have her for free? 
Free? You insult her with the suggestion. A girl of her beauty and skills is worth at least 50 goats. To accept less would bring shame on her whole family. They would not be able to hold their heads aloft in the village if it were known their daughter was deemed so worthless as to be  given away thus.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to NocturnalStalker)
Profile   Post #: 116
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/29/2011 12:50:32 AM   
Selectivelight


Posts: 191
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Fifty goats? I think I could have that arranged.

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 117
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/29/2011 12:56:34 AM   
NiceGuyNihilist


Posts: 194
Joined: 3/25/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

A guy whose weakness will let him submit to a woman is not a useful ally.



What about a guy whose strength will let him take 50 bloody singletail lashes without making a sound except for his breathing? If that strength is to some degree born of a yearning--I'll even call it a feminine yearning, for argument's sake--to please a woman at all costs, is it less real?

And yes, sunshinemiss, I'm arguing. Exactly like I said I wouldn't. You got me. I probably should've worded my first post differently so as not to prohibit myself from engaging in the rest of the thread the way I now find I really want to. I'm still thinking about your last post, which is why I haven't made a better response to it.

(in reply to Awareness)
Profile   Post #: 118
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/29/2011 1:11:09 AM   
AneNoz


Posts: 263
Joined: 4/26/2011
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quote:

Fifty goats? I think I could have that arranged.
An auction! NocturnalStalker, I have an offer of fifty goats, surely you are able to better this offer. Think of the joys she will bring, she is an accomplished dancer and trained in the arts of love. She will bear you many fine sons.

Be at peace
Aneka

(in reply to Selectivelight)
Profile   Post #: 119
RE: Do you have contempt for submissive males? - 4/29/2011 1:17:32 AM   
HannahLynHeather


Posts: 2950
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From: where it's at
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a accomplished dancer?!? i'll go 52 goats. hell, i'll even throw in a slightly used sheep!

hannah lynn



_____________________________

clique? i don't need no stinking clique!

fuck a duck ~w. disney

My Twitter: http://twitter.com/HannahFuck

i hope you enjoyed the post, and as always my friends....have a nice day

(in reply to AneNoz)
Profile   Post #: 120
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