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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 4:58:41 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punkt

I wish I didn't have to micromanage. It just had to be because of her habits which were hurting her physically and financially.
I already moved on. Not just from the situation, but from her too. She was freed about a month ago.

I am kind of resenting this.
I took time to form a thoughtful, response that might help prevent such an occurance in the future.
Why ask if it is a moot point, and if you didn't actually want to hear people's opinions?

So, given that, I will adjust my advice here and say that you need to work on your communication skills.
(Obviously, just to be clear, since she is no longer a part of this the only one I can address is you; this is not a sudden attack.)
It was your responsibility to make certain that she was understanding you.
If there were things getting in the way of that, then that was another issue that should have been addressed.

You have become defensive here; is that a tendency you carry into your real live M/s relationships?

Good communication requires open listening skills.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 5:00:00 AM

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I think you were doing your best to try to improve her, it definitely seems like she needed the help. Humans forget, but if it's a primary focus that she's not to spend money, then she should have concentrated on making sure she had everything when she left the house. A slave should try to do everything to make carrying through on your request a success. It doesn't seem as though she was trying very hard to accomplish the restrictions you set up for her.

She didn't ask you for the drink, she shouldn't have expected an answer. Impossible to read minds and all that...

(in reply to Punkt)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 5:15:09 AM

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First, welcome to the CM message boards.

Second (and I might be reading things into it), what you have described is not *just* extremely poor communication. Both of your actions smack of the kind of passive-aggressive behavior that is guaranteed to kill a relationship.

Slave informs Master that she forgot her drink, and she's hot and thirsty. But she fails to ask permission to buy water. Say what? Any dynamic that involves lots of micromanaging (for whatever reason) automatically means lots of asking permission.

But it also involves lots of granting permission. Which is why many dominants don't like micromanaging - it's just too damn much work. And if you are going to put yourself in the situation, then I have to say yes, the dominant *must* be responsive.

You failed to be responsive when she was hot and thirsty.

Any slave who needs their finances micromanaged to the extent you describe can not be relied upon to have effective follow through in a wide variety of situations. It speaks of an immaturity and lack of responsibility that the master would *have* to take into account in dealing with that slave.

You failed to take her immaturity into account, and chose to ignore her.

I think you created this thread through a desire to justify your own behavior and find some vindication. You will not get that from me. If you set yourself up as the one responsible, than you have to be responsible. You just don't get to blow things off because shit happens.

I am quite sure there is a whole other side to this story. Perhaps the slave had received such a negative response to asking permission to buy a drink she feared provoking another? Many relatively new masters have no idea how the submissive minds works in terms of being horribly afraid to anger, disappoint, or not obey master. From your responses to this thread I am assuming your took a very heavy handed approach to someone far too sensitive to deal with that.

That is merely an assumption, I could be wrong, but please consider your own actions and what you did wrong in this relationship. Yes, your slave was quite immature and required micromanaging. Despite this, YOU agreed to be her master. So now it's time to think about what this says about YOU.

BTW: It's not my intention to be overly critical, but you put it out there, and I have no choice but to respond as honestly as I can.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 5:45:51 AM

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an earlier poster (sorry, i'm bad with screen names after skimming threads) suggested that you might benefit from setting some ground rules -- she suggested "if you need to buy plain water, then you can buy that."
then the slave knows what to do when she would otherwise get tangled up in guesswork.

i had a silly habit for a while, too -- drinking. i was a late bloomer and didn't get the "omgz must get drunk!" thing out of my system when i was in high school like everyone else did ^.~ (haha, i'm just kidding)
i did have a boundary issue with alcohol because i liked the feeling of being drunk, plain and simple. we were spending a lot of time in bars and clubs because of something he was doing with one of his relatives, and it was a totally different "lifestyle" than what i was used to. well M told me straight up that i was only allowed to have ONE drink, unless he specifically told me otherwise.
so there -- now i had a ground rule and knew what was expected of me no matter where i was, or whether he was there or not.
water or pop didn't matter, which was also included in the rule.

it's possible that she read your lack of response as an "i don't care," which WOULDN'T be seeing to her needs at all. lack of response IS a response. you could've engaged her further and asked some questions, but you chose not to. since she's also restricted from spending money, it's possible that she wasn't sure if that was considered a "legitimate purchase," since she'd also forgotten her water bottle. i've seen guys take a situation like that and say "well see, you should've remembered your bottle. don't forget it again."

we don't really know anything about you or how you've responded to these situations in the past so all we can really offer is a few what-ifs. but next time, be clear. don't ignore an attempt at communication. she could've also been clearer -- instead of insinuating that she's thirsty, she should come out and just say it. that makes it easier for everyone.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 7:20:03 AM

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When you text "It is so hot and I forgot my water at home." to your Master, do you expect him to understand that you would like to buy some drink?
Yes, I would. Or, at least, I'd assume that I didn't just get that little tidbit of information because a cosmic ray hit her brain at just the right moment. Especially if I had a dynamic where there were lots of arbitrary restrictions placed on Carol and at distance then I'd make it my business to pry into things like this for exactly the reason you've stated in this post. More importantly though, I'd never make rules like that which are just bound to go wrong to start with. Or, at least, I'd leave safety hatches in them.

After you texted that, what if he didn't reply you back, what would you think?
Carol would think that I didn't get the text or was too busy. I'm sure she'd follow up with a specific request... "Master, I'm thirsty. May I buy a drink?" If she didn't get a response she would not buy the drink unless in her assessment she was actually at some physical risk in which case she'd know that I care more about her health than some arbitrary rule and act accordingly. Honestly this whole situation seems like mountains out of molehills.

Would you think that he is not concerned about your needs even though you didn't ask him to buy a drink?
No, it's hard to imagine what would cause Carol to come to that conclusion. She's got a lot of evidence to the contrary.

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(in reply to Punkt)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:02:55 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

The way my household rules are set up, a slave wouldn't need to ask permission to spend money for water.

I don't need permission either. If it's my purse then he gave it to me to spend. He would also expect to me to know enough to take care of myself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Punkt
When she got penniless after the first week, she was suffering. All these permissions were to teach her how to save money and how to spend money.

All you taught her was how to rely on someone else to control her money.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:09:21 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

All you taught her was how to rely on someone else to control her money.

A most excellent point.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:15:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punkt

Except certain things, she had to ask for permission to spend money or to buy something.

For Pete's sake. Why is water on a hot day NOT among things that are allowed to be purchased? Water is necessary for good health. I see this as a lack on the Dominant's part. The Dominant's lack could not put his sub's health in jeapardy.

(in reply to Punkt)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:22:52 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChatteParfaitt

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

All you taught her was how to rely on someone else to control her money.

A most excellent point.

that's certainly a possible outcome, though we don't necessarily know that he isn't teaching her other things about handling money.
like in other venues when i've mentioned my "no drinking!" rule, people would laugh at me for being immature, or something like that. =p well sometimes it IS handy to have someone outside who's taking an honest look at your behavior, and who can use the power he has in the relationship to help you overcome that.
the rule simply put me back on the previous road i had been on, i.e. i don't need to drink to have fun. that was the way i was before all the bars and clubs, and the rule put me back in touch with that.

my ultimate problem with this thread, though, is that she was reaching out to communicate and he ignored it, because he "thought" she should know better. i'd say the fact that she was attempting to ask meant that, for whatever reason, she didn't. it doesn't necessarily have to do with her being unintelligent or not knowing how to take care of herself like some people are so quick to assume. he may have responded badly to a similar request, or she's trying to be SUPER mindful of her rule, which often happens in the beginning stages of a new rule, anyway.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:27:54 AM

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He wouldn't prevent me from getting water or food if needed.

However, in this case, she told you she had a problem and you chose to ignore it. You could have said she can wait 20 minutes more till she's home, or you could have told her to stop. You set up a micromanaging dynamic and chose to step out of it when you didn't feel up to micromanaging.

Next time, set up contingency plans for times you can't answer. Or tell her she can not spend more than $20 without asking.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:29:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

You set up a micromanaging dynamic and chose to step out of it when you didn't feel up to micromanaging.

yep!

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:31:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeautyDebased

So....

Basically your a poor man who thinks he can have a slave? wrong, slaves have needs, and one of their primary needs is that YOU provide for them, yes, financially too, a slave should never have to feel pressured to save in such a way, that's your job, your job when you took her on.

If your not able to do such then I suggest you find another lifestyle, one that doesn't include looking after the wellbeing of another since you are so very clearly incapable of even looking after yourself, you appear uncertain, unsure and certainly not confidant enough that anyone would wish to put their life in your hands, look inward for it wasn't the sub at fault here but you.

A slaves duty is many things yes, but a Master has many more, things which you have failed to see, for if you hadn't, you wouldn't be here now, complaining and without a sub...sort your shit out first, works wonders.

B.

It's their choice to grant him control over her spending. Whether he's rich or poor is immaterial.

Punkt, you've spent way more time and effort than this deserved. You're going to have to figure out how to address minor stuff quickly or you'll get overwhelmed.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:36:42 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punkt

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Did you want her to beg?

Im really confused here.

You didnt get the text message. That I can understand. Sometimes they dont work right.

So, lets say the towers were out and she couldnt ask. Did you have a contingency plan for that?

I always left her enough spending money to be spent without questions.
She also had a safety money.
She also did know that I don't reply to her texts and e-mails usually.
So, there was no need for her to expect me to give her permission on that occasion. I told her that when we talked. "You needed a drink, and you had enough money on you."
So, what I was telling her that she didn't have the right to think I am unresponsive to her needs.
She had enough money on her to buy what she "needs" and also a safety money that she could spend in addition to the spending money.

I certainly would be on a sticky wicket if I were in her situation and then later told M that he was unresponsive to my needs!

I can see perfectly well why you may have taken her text to you as information, as she sent *informative* texts quite often. She was also well aware that you don't reply to her very often......the reason why doesn't really matter.

You knew she was adequately taken care of money-wise and could buy fluids. She wanted to buy a SODA, which was restricted due to her previous over-indulgence and irresponsible wastefulness.

She was being silly. Her needs were perfectly well supplied.

As to her *right* to tell you that you were unresponsive to her needs*? I suppose she has the right to say anything she likes, but that doesn't mean it's remotely sensible but then, she wasn't sensible when she blew all her money on crap. She sounds incredibly immature overall. I have grandchildren of 9 yrs old that are less so.

I would have been met with the totally understandable *Self-inficted my dear* and there'd not be a SHRED of sympathy for being such a twit.

agirl

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:38:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Punkt

quote:

ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan

~FR~

The way my household rules are set up, a slave wouldn't need to ask permission to spend money for water. They are written so that slaves have blanket permission to acquire necessary items such as food/drink, gasoline, and toiletry items. I don't have the time or desire to micromanage on that level. Only large ticket items or those that are not necessities, such as new clothes or leisure activities, require my permission.

That being said, if I received such text, I would ask if there was a convenience store or some other place to get water and if s/he had money on hand to buy it. This would be the only logical response to a statement such as that one. If I can't trust the slave to protect my property, including maintaining good health and nutrition without running to me for every little thing, then the slave isn't sufficiently intelligent and/or is too needy and we aren't going to be a good fit.

In our case;

Drinking liters of soda every day was not a need, it was an unhealthy habit!

Dude? Cigarettes? Just saying.It seems like you have some unhealthy habits too, it's hard for anyone, slave or Master to preach when they aren't practicing if you get what I am saying.

We just had a huge money fight last night actually, he opened MY credit card statement from American Express and had a fucking fit. This was after midnight when I got home from my over 13 hour bartending job so I wasn't really in the mood for it. I work that job to pay for MY AmEx bills so I don't have to listen to him tell me what to buy and not buy. Apparently not so. So, to have to text and ask for a drink? Oh no, never. That would never ever fly with me. I understand you were trying to improve her habits I guess, but that's way to parent/child for me.

< Message edited by Aynne88 -- 6/21/2011 8:45:31 AM >

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 9:06:32 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BeautyDebased

So....

Basically your a poor man who thinks he can have a slave? wrong, slaves have needs, and one of their primary needs is that YOU provide for them, yes, financially too, a slave should never have to feel pressured to save in such a way, that's your job, your job when you took her on.

If your not able to do such then I suggest you find another lifestyle, one that doesn't include looking after the wellbeing of another since you are so very clearly incapable of even looking after yourself, you appear uncertain, unsure and certainly not confidant enough that anyone would wish to put their life in your hands, look inward for it wasn't the sub at fault here but you.

A slaves duty is many things yes, but a Master has many more, things which you have failed to see, for if you hadn't, you wouldn't be here now, complaining and without a sub...sort your shit out first, works wonders.

B.

That's really rather rubbish.

There's absolutely nothing in my life as an owned person that requires M to *provide* for me. Unless you count providing the tools/expertise/advice to provide for myself.

Pressured to *save in that way*?? You bet your sweet bippy that I am pressured to be responsible financially!

M is far better off than I am financially, but that has absolutely NOTHING to do with our relationship. He doesn't *keep* me financially, nor is it any requirement needed to own someone.

I live according to my OWN purse and if I wasted my money on coke, junk food and general rubbish and ended up going hungry for half the month.....he'd damn well let me go hungry and serve myself right.

His disapproval and annoyance would be very clear and if I made no moves to sort myself out and expected him to *provide for me*, I'd get a VERY swift lesson in *How to lose the interest and patience of a perfectly good owner*.

agirl

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 9:09:21 AM

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LOL at Aynne. It's like going to McDonald's and ordering a double quarter-pounder with cheese, large fries, and a DIET coke, because sugar is so unhealthy....

Anyway, this comment isn't about the OP's situation directly, but rather, a general statement about the thought processes of various people.

Example, a couple of weeks ago, I was riding around in the car with my 28 year old son, and a song came on the radio that I liked, but I'm not fond of the artist, Stevie Nicks. I was humming along with the song, but simply commented, "I hate Stevie Nicks", just as a passing comment, not one filled with vehemence or anything like that. My son immediately started flipping the stations, and when I protested...because I liked the song, "Landslide"....he went off about how he'd never understand women, he was trying to be nice, I said I didn't like Stevie Nicks so he was trying to find something else I would like, and on and on, ending up with, "so what am I supposed to do? If a girl says she doesn't like something, do I just ignore her or try to make it right for her???"

I tried to explain that, just because we complain about something doesn't necessarily mean we want you to spring into action to fix it, sometimes it's just a comment as conversation. He was still baffled and slightly miffed, asked again what he should have done, thinking I was unhappy. I suggested he just ask....."Should I find something else?" and give her the option, don't just assume. In this case, I would have explained, 'No, I like the song, just not Stevie, but it's ok.'

My son is a pleaser, though. I'm sure if he had received that text, he'd have been on his way to the store to buy the water. Some people need to be asked or told exactly what is wanted or expected. "It's hot and I forgot my water.....can you bring me some?/Can I stop and get some?/I can't wait to get home so I can get a drink" or whatever.

I suspect the sub in question was young and/or immature and hoping for the mind-reading knight in shining armor to race up and deliver water.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 9:28:33 AM

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quote:

LOL at Aynne. It's like going to McDonald's and ordering a double quarter-pounder with cheese, large fries, and a DIET coke, because sugar is so unhealthy....

Pft... I order the diet because I dont like the taste of regular.

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 9:29:01 AM

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my opinion is this, i am not about to say i understand your dynamics, it sounds confusing.

but if i want someone to pick me up something from the store, i say it.

i can also talk to people about my day and say oh shoot! i forgot water... bummer! doesn't mean i expect him (boyfriend, Dom, Master, friend, whoever) to pick it up for me. it sounds like she was being vague and you were being.... human, lol. but it also sounds like the problem is something seeded more deeply then water? perhaps you two should talk about how comfortable everyone is with this arrangement. not saying its the case, but why is she lashing out about the water? is she young? why expect it? it doesn't make much sense... perhaps it makes more sense to you two and im just being silly =)

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 9:41:47 AM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne88

Dude? Cigarettes? Just saying.It seems like you have some unhealthy habits too, it's hard for anyone, slave or Master to preach when they aren't practicing if you get what I am saying.

It's not anything like as hard when the *unhealthy habit* is causing you to have no way of supporting yourself for 3 weeks out of 4.

It's not at all hard to tell ME that I can't afford to smoke if I'm penniless for 3 weeks out of 4 because of it. If I can afford to, that's a different story.

agirl

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 10:20:24 AM

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To me, one hasn't quite moved on until they do the healing and examination of the past to assure to the best of their ability, that the past isn't a problem to the future. I commend you OP for trying to figure it out. One thing I would point out is that if you are wanting or forced into a TPE relationship, which certain things indicate you were... then a mis-communication or something unclear, would have opened the door for your response either in understanding what was meant, asked or given as information. TPE in my opinion comes with a lot of work on the dominant's part. You accepted the role and failed in communicating what you expect in communication, not relying on some hidden message in the lack of a response even if she knew you couldn't or wouldn't respond to all text messages until you were ready. There are times when you cannot respond, this is true, but, you chose not to respond to an unclear message that resulted in more confusion, when as a TPE type dominant, willingly or because of the situation, you expected something from her that clearly wasn't clear to her yet.

Even in a dynamic where I didn't have TPE, had I wanted to train someone in many areas, as it seems you were and I got that text, I would have asked for an explanation. It could have come in the form of... Just what are you trying to say to me? (answer) Then wouldn't that be what you could have said in the first place?

If I don't like the communication style my submissive has, then it is up to me to guide them into the type I would like them to use with me. Some of this cannot be changed because it gets into other personality traits and experiences and some communication styles of couples just don't work... ever. However, many relationships must learn 'their' communication style and it really is up to the dominant in my opinion, to make sure they are clear about what they expect and not blame the submissive because they didn't get it or did it in an unclear manner.

Part of who I am is being a caring person and wanting functional relationships. I would consider myself in the wrong had I gotten that text and didn't respond because of the key words... hot... and water. I would have wanted details and why I got a text about it, knowing there had to be more to the situation and wanting details if there was some part I had in the situation. I don't deny communication based on silliness or making a point that may be unclear to start with. The way I see it, your submissive was requiring something from you that might supersede your deciding when you might respond or not if it was unimportant. It seemingly was important to make the matter clear and if it wasn't, I would be asking for it to be.

In this situation, you gave no response and if that were me on either side of the situation, I would see it as lacking concern because in a TPE with so much going on, communication from me WAS needed, if for only some understanding or clarity. Rules, guidelines and structure go right out the window if communication and good communication isn't in place. Had that been in place, you'd have gotten a different type of text.

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