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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 6:19:37 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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quote:

I am trying to figure out where some of the opinions are coming from that he is a bad master.

Because it took him 3 pages to get all that out. I actually don't think he's a bad master at all now that I have the whole picture. He is a bad communicator, this is obvious from his posts, on the first few pages he kept giving dribs of information, get replies, then give a bit more information, get more replies, and so on. Now that the whole situation is clear, I agree with him that he wasn't being overly outrageous in his micromanagement, nor was he being remiss in not replying.

I suspect that it's very possible that the sub didn't really understand the rules, given his obvious difficulty in making himself clear, but like I said before :She didn't ask. How can he be be blamed for not granting permission when no permission was requested.

(in reply to kyraofMists)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 6:24:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

She needed no permission. How many times does the guy have to say that?

Apparently a lot!!

And to this:

quote:

I'm actually a bit surprised that so much was misconstrued.

So am I.

seems to me there are more than a few people that have reading comprehension issues. I didn't think it was that hard to understand!!!!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 6:27:01 PM

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quote:

He is a bad communicator, this is obvious from his posts,

and it's equally obvious that more than a few have reading comprehension issues as well! As bad as is communicatiing was.. it wasn't that bad! It was down right easy to understand from my view point!!!

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 6:40:47 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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But you're responding from the perspective of having read the whole thread, not having just the OP or first few replies to go on. But I don't really mind. I asked one question to clarify one detail, got an answer. I got the gist of the OP from that, stated my view, and he agreed with me, so I'm good with that.

My remark about being glad Hanners found me was really just to express how much I wouldn't want to have those sorts of rules. We have what one might call a "French" dynamic: if its not specifically forbidden, it is permitted. His was more a "German" dynamic: if it's not specifically permitted, it is forbidden.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 6:48:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

Fast Reply:

He said she could use emergency money for health needs.

He said she over indulged in sodas and therefore had to ask to buy more, once her weekly allowance was depleted.

She texted him that she left her WATER at home and was thirsty. No question about sodas there.

He didn't respond. My guess is that it was merely an informative text to let him know she needed to get water, and since there was already an understanding in place that she could do that, it didn't warrant a reply. I would agree with that. Saying "I need water" and getting upset that there wasn't permission given to buy a soda doesn't compute for me.

If i don't ask for what I want, I'm not in much of a position to get upset for not getting it.

I agree with this. I showed Master the original post. He also says that he wouldn't have responded. He would have assumed that it was an idle comment of information and would have expected me to just buy water.

Seems to me she didn't ask and she somehow expected him to psychically divine that she wanted permission to buy water. (Which was a permission that she already had.)

Talk about manufacturing drama.....

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(in reply to NuevaVida)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 6:51:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

I suspect that it's very possible that the sub didn't really understand the rules, given his obvious difficulty in making himself clear, ...

I thought this at first too, until he explained that English is his second language and that he speaks more clearly than he writes.

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(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 7:01:16 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

But you're responding from the perspective of having read the whole thread, not having just the OP or first few replies to go on. But I don't really mind. I asked one question to clarify one detail, got an answer. I got the gist of the OP from that, stated my view, and he agreed with me, so I'm good with that.

My remark about being glad Hanners found me was really just to express how much I wouldn't want to have those sorts of rules. We have what one might call a "French" dynamic: if its not specifically forbidden, it is permitted. His was more a "German" dynamic: if it's not specifically permitted, it is forbidden.

actually I didn't read the entire thread.... I am sadist not a masocist.. I went to the cliff notes that Kyra posted after I read the first few comments on the first page.....

The questions from the Orginally OP was rather simple and straight forward.. but people made it alot more complicated with asking irrelevant questions and looking for the drama behind the questions.

it was rather simple.. here let me demonstrate

quesiton 1
When you text "It is so hot and I forgot my water at home." to your Master, do you expect him to understand that you would like to buy some drink?

Answer 1..... NO.. there wasn't a question.. I am not a mind reader! If they want something they need to ASK a question!!!!

Question 2
After you texted that, what if he didn't reply you back, what would you think?

Answer 2
In my relationship, I would know that my girls didn't see my text! They respond to me when I send anything to them as quickly as they can. If I want their immediate attention... I CALL THEM with a phone!!! it's great technology.. I think a guy name Bell invented it! If they don't answer... well I know that they are really busy!!!! and my girls would see it the same way from their perspective... I didn't see it or didn't have time to respond. If they needed to talk.. they call... man it really is great technology... or the bitches wait till I see them!!!! which is old school!!!

Question 3
Would you think that he is not concerned about your needs even though you didn't ask him to buy a drink?

Answer 3
NO!!!!! Our relationship is not so shallow and silly as that!

NOW HOW FUCKING HARD IS IT TO ANSWER SOME SIMPLE FUCKING QUESTIONS!!!!!!! without getting all stupid with extra drama .... well apparently alot harder than I thought based on the sillness of this thread!!!

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 7:13:49 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

actually I didn't read the entire thread.... I am sadist not a masocist.. I went to the cliff notes that Kyra posted after I read the first few comments on the first page.....

The questions from the Orginally OP was rather simple and straight forward.. but people made it alot more complicated with asking irrelevant questions and looking for the drama behind the questions.

it was rather simple.. here let me demonstrate

quesiton 1
When you text "It is so hot and I forgot my water at home." to your Master, do you expect him to understand that you would like to buy some drink?

Answer 1..... NO.. there wasn't a question.. I am not a mind reader! If they want something they need to ASK a question!!!!

Question 2
After you texted that, what if he didn't reply you back, what would you think?

Answer 2
In my relationship, I would know that my girls didn't see my text! They respond to me when I send anything to them as quickly as they can. If I want their immediate attention... I CALL THEM with a phone!!! it's great technology.. I think a guy name Bell invented it! If they don't answer... well I know that they are really busy!!!! and my girls would see it the same way from their perspective... I didn't see it or didn't have time to respond. If they needed to talk.. they call... man it really is great technology... or the bitches wait till I see them!!!! which is old school!!!

Question 3
Would you think that he is not concerned about your needs even though you didn't ask him to buy a drink?

Answer 3
NO!!!!! Our relationship is not so shallow and silly as that!

NOW HOW FUCKING HARD IS IT TO ANSWER SOME SIMPLE FUCKING QUESTIONS!!!!!!! without getting all stupid with extra drama .... well apparently alot harder than I thought based on the sillness of this thread!!!

The OP started this thread to ask this question for a reason. It happened a month ago, evidently it's been preying on his mind. One of the biggest reasons I responded the way I did was not from what the OP said, but the fact he said it. You don't ask these questions unless you have doubts about your ability to take care of your slave's needs a/o feel you have been cleverly manipulated.

Self doubt and allowing a slave to manipulate you (to the point it preys on you) are not good traits in a dominant. Perhaps you do not have such silly, shallow relationships based on immaturity and poor communication skills, others do.

BTW: You have injected as much, if not more, drama in this thread as anyone else, IMO.

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(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 7:20:32 PM

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quote:

BTW: You have injected as much, if not more, drama in this thread as anyone else, IMO.

well, when in Rome!!! and Ido tend to be an over-achiever!

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to ChatteParfaitt)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 7:29:36 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

She needed no permission. How many times does the guy have to say that?

Apparently a lot!!

However, the way it was presented made it seem like to me that there may have been a disconnect between her not needing permission and her knowing that she did not need permission.
That may or may not have been the case.

Edit: fix quote

< Message edited by angelikaJ -- 6/21/2011 7:30:30 PM >

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(in reply to NuevaVida)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 7:45:43 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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quote:

actually I didn't read the entire thread.... I am sadist not a masocist.. I went to the cliff notes that Kyra posted after I read the first few comments on the first page.....

Well that's a little disingenuous don't you think? Kyra obviously read the whole thread, so by reading her summary you had the perspective of having read the whole thread.

quote:

NOW HOW FUCKING HARD IS IT TO ANSWER SOME SIMPLE FUCKING QUESTIONS!!!!!!! without getting all stupid with extra drama .... well apparently alot harder than I thought based on the sillness of this thread!!!

Wow. Let me help you get your undies unbunched there. In post #5 I asked a question to clarify. In post #11 I said basically the same thing you did. So I had it figured out without the whole rest of the thread. Why do you keep quoting me and lecturing me? I got it long before you or Kyra came anywhere near this thread.

If you are annoyed at people not understanding the OP or the thread, then quote one of them, but by quoting me, one of the people who got it right out of the starting gate, and lecturing me about not getting it, you really are calling into question your own reading comprehension skills. You have a reputation for being intelligent, I sure hope you are just having an off night, because you certainly aren't living up to your reputation here tonight.

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 7:46:32 PM

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quote:

I think it's being talked about because so many people didn't actually read what the guy wrote and wandered off up their own hypothetical path.

He spelled it out perfectly clearly. I'm actually a bit surprised that so much was misconstrued.

agirl

Try going back to reading from the beginning. He wasnt clear until questions were asked, repeatedly.

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(in reply to agirl)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:00:29 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: angelikaJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: NuevaVida

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

She needed no permission. How many times does the guy have to say that?

Apparently a lot!!

However, the way it was presented made it seem like to me that there may have been a disconnect between her not needing permission and her knowing that she did not need permission.
That may or may not have been the case.

Edit: fix quote

Um no, again.

The way it was presented was quite clear. If I can *get it*...an anonymous person from the UK, you can be fairly certain SHE did, the person he has spent time with and talked with.

It's not as if he lacked any communication skills, he presented his question clearly and he clarified OTHER people's misunderstandings clearly.

quote:

ChatteParfaiie: BTW: You have injected as much, if not more, drama in this thread as anyone else, IMO.

KOM: well, when in Rome!!! and I do tend to be an over-achiever!

.....and the latter is a definite Sunny quote!

agirl

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(in reply to angelikaJ)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:02:43 PM

agirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

I think it's being talked about because so many people didn't actually read what the guy wrote and wandered off up their own hypothetical path.

He spelled it out perfectly clearly. I'm actually a bit surprised that so much was misconstrued.

agirl

Try going back to reading from the beginning. He wasnt clear until questions were asked, repeatedly.

I did. I did again as the thread developed. I did even after it had gone *so* far.......and I did again before I commented.

After one hour, it was fairly clear........

agirl

< Message edited by agirl -- 6/21/2011 8:13:10 PM >

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:04:58 PM

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quote:

Kyra obviously read the whole thread, so by reading her summary you had the perspective of having read the whole thread.[/color]

yeah... I am efficient that way....

quote:

Why do you keep quoting me and lecturing me?

What .. I shouldn't quote you... and what lecture... did I say you didn't anything specific... I pretty sure I was rather general... but maybe you are afraid of guilt by association.

quote:

I got it long before you or Kyra came anywhere near this thread.

here's a cookie!!! for being first!

quote:

If you are annoyed at people not understanding the OP or the thread, then quote one of them, but by quoting me, one of the people who got it right out of the starting gate, and lecturing me about not getting it, you really are calling into question your own reading comprehension skills. You have a reputation for being intelligent, I sure hope you are just having an off night, because you certainly aren't living up to your reputation here tonight.[/color]

seems you are taking this wwway to personal... I quote you and now it's about you!!! I don't recall saying anything about you not comprehending anything specifically.... like you said you got it right away.. which goes to prove my point that his bad commuication wasn't that bad in the first place! One only need to read it and not project their shit into it.

as far as my rep... I am not to concerned about it nor am I tryig to live up to it.. never have been... the rep is what others think of me... for the most part.. it's only half right at best. I would say thank you for the concern for my rep... but that would be a lie. I will suggest that you not take what I said as being personally directed at you... just because some quotes you doesn't specificially mean it's about you and only you. It might only because you provided a good jump off point. but,,,, just to be sure.. I will not quote anything you say in the future... don't want to get your feathers in a ruffle.

< Message edited by KnightofMists -- 6/21/2011 8:32:23 PM >

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:27:22 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
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From: The dog house
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Oh dear, another fellow being a dorkasaurus. Well I've got a few minutes so I'll play along.

quote:

Kyra obviously read the whole thread, so by reading her summary you had the perspective of having read the whole thread.

yeah... I am efficient that way....

You seem to be forgetting that you were responding to my statement that you had the benefit of the whole story, so like I said, disingenuous at the very least, with your subsequent reply I'm leaning more towards intellectually dishonest.

quote:

What .. I shouldn't quote you... and what lecture... did I say you didn't anything specific... I pretty sure I was rather general... but maybe you are afraid of guilt by association.

You quoted me and ranted away about people not getting it. Now usually when one quotes somebody it implies they are responding to what they quoted. If not, then most sensible people state that they agree with what they quoted before they go off on their petulant rant.

quote:

here's a cookie!!! for being first!

No thanks, I'm diabetic. But I'll take a samosa if you have one. <oh, and I wasn't first, but I was faster on the uptake than you. I didn't need anybody to summarize it for me before I could figure it out>

quote:

but,,,, just to be sure.. I will not quote anything you say in the future... don't want to get your feathers in a ruffle.

Now you're just being a silly little boy.

< Message edited by HeatherMcLeather -- 6/21/2011 8:28:21 PM >

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:47:12 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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Sometimes it's better to just wait and see what transpires. The opening post would seem cut and dried to ME........IE, No, she hadn't asked a thing.

It's not at all uncommon for posted situations to become clearer as time passes and questions are answered. Some old lags tend to wait until then.

Having said that , despite a clear situation and copious responses from the OP, by post 25...the misunderstandings were rife.

Eh, what?

agirl

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RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:51:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

Sometimes it's better to just wait and see what transpires. The opening post would seem cut and dried to ME........IE, No, she hadn't asked a thing.

I was post #2 and my answer by the end of this thread remains the same as back then - No, telling him she needed a drink was not actually asking for permission to get a drink, and if he didn't reply it wasn't that big of a deal.

Then everyone started questioning him on why his slave had to ask permission to get water - when he never said she needed permission for that.

But confusion happens - people misread and go with it. I've been known to do that myself a time or two.

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Live Simply. Love Generously. Care Deeply. Speak Kindly.

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 8:58:57 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

Eh, what?

I suspect that most people who did that were replying without reading further in the thread.

When the OP is pretty clear, then I don't see a problem with that, but when it isn't, I think its only sensible to read along a bit first to see if things get clearer.

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Informing and Asking - 6/21/2011 9:02:45 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
Status: offline

quote:

I was post #2 and my answer by the end of this thread remains the same as back then - No, telling him she needed a drink was not actually asking for permission to get a drink, and if he didn't reply it wasn't that big of a deal.

Indeed, that's why I said I wasn't the first.

(in reply to NuevaVida)

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