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RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 12:54:28 PM

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quote:

It amazes me that so many people are up in arms about magikslave's inability to give a blow job... I wonder if these same *people* would be as adamant about men who refuse to perform oral an a woman.

Kali

I do not perform oral sex on women. I place my tongue inside thier pussy and savage them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam
was just noticing some 'circling of the wagons' by the fairer sex in the last coupla pages here LOL.

Yep. Ladies are kinda cheerleading a bit instead of discussing. Frankly, nothing Awareness has said was condescending or dissmissive that I could see. It may not be what you wanted to hear, but it was honest and direct. Let's stay on topic.

_____________________________

Basically if you can't inspire someone to trust you deeply, you aren't going to be able to buy that or a reasonable facsimile thereof. -DesFIP

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 1:22:21 PM

agirl

Posts: 4530
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
First off, I am not a slave, I know the name says otherwise and I am sorry for the confusion (I was at one point a slave to one man and only one man. I am no longer a slave and if you had bothered to read my profile at all you would have known that.) Even if I was a slave I would still be entitled to hard limits, being a slave doesn't mean you have none or aren't entitled to any.

I disagree. Attitudes such as this derive from people who are playing at slavery, not serious individuals contemplating a TPE arrangement.

quote:

Second, I am dealing with it as I have said several times but while I am dealing with it and not OVER it, it remains a hard limit, end of story.
Let me get this straight. You asked a question; I answered; you disagreed; I clarified. And you're still bitching about the answer you got.

Next time, try Ask A Mistress. They'll give you all the cheerleading ' you go girl ' posts you seem to want. Don't ask a Dom a fucking question and then complain because the answer isn't pleasing to you.

I note the usual idiots are missing the point. Issues writ large.

No my problem come in with the fact that your OPINION is that your OPNINION is that of the entire Dom community and there for a fact and not an OPINION. I would take no issue if you answered for yourself and only yourself and werent trying to make me feel like less of a person for this.

I can't see at all how you've managed to construe that from the posts he made. Is it not clear that he is speaking for himself, and if not, why not? I haven't seen a single keystroke designed to make you feel less of a person for your problem.

If your problem really is this....

quote: No my problem come in with the fact that your OPINION is that your OPNINION is that of the entire Dom community and there for a fact and not an OPINION. I would take no issue if you answered for yourself and only yourself. unquote.....

....then you have no problem as he IS speaking for himself. You may actually have a problem with his style, his forthright manner, his bluntness or perhaps you do not like the content whilst he's done so, but that doesn't alter this fact.

The fact is, that of course, there will be men that will not be interested in someone that has an *issue* over all manner of things. Not everyone is going to be willing to bother, depending on what that problem is. For as many that don't wish to, there will be an amount that will. I don't see what it has to do with being *subly*, or why you attached your problem to that notion in the first place if you weren't considering that some people might actually say *Well, yes, and this is why.....*.

Some people will not entertain a relationship with personal limits.....for a myriad of reasons. I could not be with M if I had them.Other people do have them and all is well.

Nothing is really relevant apart from the fact that you choose someone that suits you and for whom you suit. Beyond that it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.

agirl

adding a self-slap for using the word *fact* 3 times ....ewwwwwwwwwww.

< Message edited by agirl -- 9/15/2011 1:25:14 PM >

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(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 1:51:54 PM

Mr4sg

Posts: 99
Joined: 9/2/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

adding a self-slap for using the word *fact* 3 times ....ewwwwwwwwwww.

Let me assist you with that.

_____________________________

Don't argue with idiots. It lowers you to their level where they beat you with experience.

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 5:09:09 PM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

quote:

ORIGINAL: Awareness

quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
First off, I am not a slave, I know the name says otherwise and I am sorry for the confusion (I was at one point a slave to one man and only one man. I am no longer a slave and if you had bothered to read my profile at all you would have known that.) Even if I was a slave I would still be entitled to hard limits, being a slave doesn't mean you have none or aren't entitled to any.

I disagree. Attitudes such as this derive from people who are playing at slavery, not serious individuals contemplating a TPE arrangement.

quote:

Second, I am dealing with it as I have said several times but while I am dealing with it and not OVER it, it remains a hard limit, end of story.
Let me get this straight. You asked a question; I answered; you disagreed; I clarified. And you're still bitching about the answer you got.

Next time, try Ask A Mistress. They'll give you all the cheerleading ' you go girl ' posts you seem to want. Don't ask a Dom a fucking question and then complain because the answer isn't pleasing to you.

I note the usual idiots are missing the point. Issues writ large.

No my problem come in with the fact that your OPINION is that your OPNINION is that of the entire Dom community and there for a fact and not an OPINION. I would take no issue if you answered for yourself and only yourself and werent trying to make me feel like less of a person for this.

I can't see at all how you've managed to construe that from the posts he made. Is it not clear that he is speaking for himself, and if not, why not? I haven't seen a single keystroke designed to make you feel less of a person for your problem.

If your problem really is this....

quote: No my problem come in with the fact that your OPINION is that your OPNINION is that of the entire Dom community and there for a fact and not an OPINION. I would take no issue if you answered for yourself and only yourself. unquote.....

....then you have no problem as he IS speaking for himself. You may actually have a problem with his style, his forthright manner, his bluntness or perhaps you do not like the content whilst he's done so, but that doesn't alter this fact.

The fact is, that of course, there will be men that will not be interested in someone that has an *issue* over all manner of things. Not everyone is going to be willing to bother, depending on what that problem is. For as many that don't wish to, there will be an amount that will. I don't see what it has to do with being *subly*, or why you attached your problem to that notion in the first place if you weren't considering that some people might actually say *Well, yes, and this is why.....*.

Some people will not entertain a relationship with personal limits.....for a myriad of reasons. I could not be with M if I had them.Other people do have them and all is well.

Nothing is really relevant apart from the fact that you choose someone that suits you and for whom you suit. Beyond that it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.

agirl

adding a self-slap for using the word *fact* 3 times ....ewwwwwwwwwww.

Like I said, I think I lost the plot.

I had no problem with the other Doms that said for them it would be an issue, i dont really remember what got my dander up here I haven't read back to re examine but yeah, I lost the plot some place.

I think I have such a problem with this because... well this isnt like I am just chosing NOT to give a bj I literaly CAN'T, the free will has been taken from me without any consent and it is just another constant reminder that something was done to me that hurt me at such a base level that scars are not healing and I am angry this was done to me in a time and place I hadn't even the hope of speaking up and defending myself from it. I get angry every time I see another one of the marks left on me without my concent, when I see how I was shaped against my will in such a demeaning dispicable way and it all hurt even more when I get turned away from relationships because of one of those marks, and it has happened on more than one occasion.

Ok now I am just ranting, sorry.

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 9/15/2011 5:10:19 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 5:41:15 PM

zephyroftheNorth

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Why you sorry? Venting (which is how I see it) is healthy and helps with the healing.

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(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 7:07:14 PM

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Joined: 9/8/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave
I think I have such a problem with this because... well this isnt like I am just chosing NOT to give a bj I literaly CAN'T, the free will has been taken from me without any consent and it is just another constant reminder that something was done to me that hurt me at such a base level that scars are not healing and I am angry this was done to me in a time and place I hadn't even the hope of speaking up and defending myself from it. I get angry every time I see another one of the marks left on me without my concent, when I see how I was shaped against my will in such a demeaning dispicable way and it all hurt even more when I get turned away from relationships because of one of those marks, and it has happened on more than one occasion.

I understand.

Value is a package - bring value to the table, you'll do fine. agirl pretty much nailed my sentiments on the issue. While I'm wary of putting myself in a role which should be taken by a professional, the willingness to work on the issue with your Dom is the critical aspect from my perspective.

_____________________________

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(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 10:13:34 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

some people might actually say *Well, yes, and this is why.....*.

It's not a blow job, and being lesbians, oral probably makes up a greater part of our sex time than with straight people, but none of the 4 of us would consider a relationship with a girl who wouldn't go down on us, or let us go down on her.

(in reply to agirl)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 10:42:35 PM

Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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I see a difference in you saying you don't want RELATIONSHIP that doesn't involve that particular sex act and the people making the point of how dominants don't want a sub who doesn't do it.

And yes, as lesbians, oral sex is going to play a bigger role in intimacy. There is nothing wrong with wanting anything as part of your relationship, however, with D/s and M/s one can't talk about how sex is not what it is about and also talk about how they important blow jobs are in domination and submission. You can't have it both ways.

Of course, if I remember correctly, you guys (Hannah specifically) has often said how "all this" just comes down to freaky fucking, so you might view it differently.as often said how "all this" just comes down to freaky fucking, so you might view it differently.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 11:03:50 PM

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I know I'm not the target of much of the commentary on this end of the thread, but nonetheless I thought I might shed a bit of light on the issue of it being 'not about sex' and therefore a given act shouldn't matter. I think the whole concept of it being 'not about sex' is a remnant of the traditional view of sex as dirty and love as pure. By extension, physical kink is dirty and emotional kink is pure. People couch their preferences in a 'not sex' dogma in a subconscious allegiance to that old order, I think.

Obviously it's about sex. Everything, everywhere, is about sex. Art is sex, food is sex, cars are sex, certain spreadsheet templates are sex. Sex is what we are, who we are, it is our prime imperative, and the only reason we don't see it in everything is because we are willfully blind to it. And no, I'm not some biological determinist sitting here saying everything we do is to procreate, but sex infuses us as people, and to try and separate something as inherently sexual as romantic love and M/s or D/s from sex is purely a rhetorical technique.

So in some sense, yes, those who claim that it 'isn't about sex' are hypocrites, and some of that criticism is valid, but it isn't, as some seem to be implying, a matter of them lying about being focused on psychology and emotion when really they just want to get their dick/cunt wet, but rather an internal French-Revolutionary type of hypocrisy which occurs as a result of internal, subconscious doublethink.

_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 11:16:32 PM

HeatherMcLeather

Posts: 2559
Joined: 5/21/2011
From: The dog house
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quote:

I see a difference in you saying you don't want RELATIONSHIP that doesn't involve that particular sex act and the people making the point of how dominants don't want a sub who doesn't do it.

But I am a sub, so I include a D/s relationship in the spectrum where oral is important. Hanners feels the same way and she's a Domme. So your differentiation between a RELATIONSHIP and what a dominant wants is invalid. They want a relationship too you know.

quote:

with D/s and M/s one can't talk about how sex is not what it is about and also talk about how they important blow jobs are in domination and submission.

And yet, here we are discussing just how important a blow job is, and rather a lot of people have stated that it is important. And in the "moody Dom" thread the general consensus of how to deal with such a one is to blow him and swallow. So it would seem that sex IS, to a large extent, what it is about. If it weren't, the question wouldn't have been asked in the first place.

< Message edited by HeatherMcLeather -- 9/15/2011 11:27:28 PM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 11:26:23 PM

HeatherMcLeather

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Where were you on that thread a few months ago.

(in reply to Epytropos)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/15/2011 11:30:20 PM

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to me this has nothing to do with bdsm or d/s or M/s but all to do with compatible partnership.

I highly doubt Master would want a relationship with me if I refused to give him bjs. He definitely would not have a relationship with me if I made anything at all off limits to him.

I would not want a partner who never wanted to have sex. I would not want to have a partner who didn't like to do lots of the same things I do.

It's a relationship compatibility issue among people.

There are men who dismissed me for lots of reasons...marks from other partners, my tattoos, my weight, my hair color even. I just shrugged it off and found a man who was more compatible.

The op will have to do the same thing. If this is important to her and she feels she will never overcome it then she's gotta just find a guy who is ok with it.

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

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RE: Not a sucker - 9/16/2011 12:47:56 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HeatherMcLeather

Where were you on that thread a few months ago.

I assume you mean this one correct? You'll find me on the first page, admittedly in a less poetical mood than I am tonight lol

_____________________________

They're only words. Don't dwell on them. They never mean what you think.

I speak only of My Way. Think it not an indictment of Your Way.

(in reply to HeatherMcLeather)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/16/2011 3:23:43 AM

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From: Sailin the stormy sea
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

I know I'm not the target of much of the commentary on this end of the thread, but nonetheless I thought I might shed a bit of light on the issue of it being 'not about sex' and therefore a given act shouldn't matter. I think the whole concept of it being 'not about sex' is a remnant of the traditional view of sex as dirty and love as pure. By extension, physical kink is dirty and emotional kink is pure. People couch their preferences in a 'not sex' dogma in a subconscious allegiance to that old order, I think.

Obviously it's about sex. Everything, everywhere, is about sex. Art is sex, food is sex, cars are sex, certain spreadsheet templates are sex. Sex is what we are, who we are, it is our prime imperative, and the only reason we don't see it in everything is because we are willfully blind to it. And no, I'm not some biological determinist sitting here saying everything we do is to procreate, but sex infuses us as people, and to try and separate something as inherently sexual as romantic love and M/s or D/s from sex is purely a rhetorical technique.

So in some sense, yes, those who claim that it 'isn't about sex' are hypocrites, and some of that criticism is valid, but it isn't, as some seem to be implying, a matter of them lying about being focused on psychology and emotion when really they just want to get their dick/cunt wet, but rather an internal French-Revolutionary type of hypocrisy which occurs as a result of internal, subconscious doublethink.

quote:

oral probably makes up a greater part of our sex time than with straight people, but none of the 4 of us would consider a relationship with a girl who wouldn't go down on us, or let us go down on her.

My style of control has lots to do with sex Nuff Said

BadOne

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We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Epytropos)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/16/2011 6:33:34 AM

Kana

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If she don't suck (and swallow) she ain't gonna keep me happy. It's just that simple.
Thus, no, I would not have a slave who doesn't suck.
And really, not to be a crass ass of a dom, but I don't give a fuck if she doesn't like it.
I'm a dom. She's an owned piece of meat whose sole purpose in my life is to serve, please and obey.
That means if I want a hummer she better damn well get to it or maybe we should both be considering WTF she is doing in my life.
Just sayin'

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to ProlificNeeds)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/16/2011 6:34:24 AM

Mr4sg

Posts: 99
Joined: 9/2/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Epytropos

I know I'm not the target of much of the commentary on this end of the thread, but nonetheless I thought I might shed a bit of light on the issue of it being 'not about sex' and therefore a given act shouldn't matter. I think the whole concept of it being 'not about sex' is a remnant of the traditional view of sex as dirty and love as pure. By extension, physical kink is dirty and emotional kink is pure. People couch their preferences in a 'not sex' dogma in a subconscious allegiance to that old order, I think.

Obviously it's about sex. Everything, everywhere, is about sex. Art is sex, food is sex, cars are sex, certain spreadsheet templates are sex. Sex is what we are, who we are, it is our prime imperative, and the only reason we don't see it in everything is because we are willfully blind to it. And no, I'm not some biological determinist sitting here saying everything we do is to procreate, but sex infuses us as people, and to try and separate something as inherently sexual as romantic love and M/s or D/s from sex is purely a rhetorical technique.

So in some sense, yes, those who claim that it 'isn't about sex' are hypocrites, and some of that criticism is valid, but it isn't, as some seem to be implying, a matter of them lying about being focused on psychology and emotion when really they just want to get their dick/cunt wet, but rather an internal French-Revolutionary type of hypocrisy which occurs as a result of internal, subconscious doublethink.

How special. The theories of Freud that everything is sexual used to be a major base for thinking. Used to be, as in, further research in what motives people has given a more diversified answer. People can act based on other root motivators outside of sex.

It has nothing to do about a double think. It has more to do with people being unable to grasps concepts that are not within their own patterns of thinking. A natural occurance, yet very hard to overcome. Some people have sex as their main motivator. Others don't. The "Im-motived-by-sex" people claim that because they are such motivated, everyone must be.

Basically its the same argument as vanilla people saying masochists are mentally not functioning correct because they want things that the vanilla people strongly object to. Something so strongly outside their world of experience that they strongly reject it and wont listen to arguments counterwise.

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Don't argue with idiots. It lowers you to their level where they beat you with experience.

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RE: Not a sucker - 9/16/2011 6:38:56 AM

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Even if it causes her excruciating jaw pain from TMJ?
If you were in a good relationship and she got hit by a car, and developed jaw problems that prohibited bjs, would you then end the relationship based solely on her inability to any longer do this?

I don't think anyone has a problem with someone saying that oral sex is a large part of their sex life and that they wouldn't want to enter into a relationship where they could not be sexually satisfied, but being tossed out if you no longer can do it doesn't paint you in a very good light.

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(in reply to Kana)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/16/2011 6:58:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

This has not been an easy issue for me and I often feel angry that it is an issue because it is a mark that was left on me without my consent and I don't want it there. A lot of men dont get that, they dont get that this wasnt a choice for me and I am just as put out, if not more, by the fact that it is there.

Magik, I was abused from infancy into my teens.    I used to cry and get angry about all the things I was not able to do because I had been abused.    However, I changed my pity party.    By crying and stopping myself from doing things I wanted to do (sometimes very vanilla mundane day to day tasks), I realized that my abuser still had power over me and still had a huge amount of control over my life.    Then I got really angry and said, 'Fuck this."   I worked really hard at being the best I could be on every area of my life and if I felt I could not do it because it would trigger some sort of emotional pain, I bucked up and did it anyways and rode through the trigger and the emotional pain and kept doing it until I was free of the pain.   I was controlled by him for a very long time, even when I was an adult and he was no longer part of my world he was still there showing his power in the things I could not do.   I refused to let him have that power anymore.

It's NOT easy.   I have to work at it daily.   I'll probably be in therapy forever although not quite as frequently.   I can deal with that.   And no--an abused person can not be 'fixed'---you lost a part of you that you will never get back it's almost like someone dying.   But you can recover and get better.

It's totally up to you what path you choose to follow---I am just saying I was in your shoes and this worked for me.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/16/2011 6:59:16 AM

Kana

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Joined: 10/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Even if it causes her excruciating jaw pain from TMJ?
If you were in a good relationship and she got hit by a car, and developed jaw problems that prohibited bjs, would you then end the relationship based solely on her inability to any longer do this?

There are always mitigating circumstances. Duh.

Sheesh. Hairsplitters. The Sadducee's of the world.

And there is a world of difference between (As they say in the NFL) being physically unable to perform and refusing to do so. Hell, there's galaxies of difference between the two. One is willful disobedience, the other not

That said, when I answered, I was actually thinking more of entering into a relationship with someone who said no hummers.
At that point, I would walk, no just because I like BJ's, but moreso on the philosophical point that I view a slaves place as obeying and mine to be dic(k)tating (Please forgive the pun.I couldn't resist).

_____________________________

"One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die. "
HST

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Not a sucker - 9/16/2011 7:24:16 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MagiksSlave

I think I lost the plot...

I don't think Awareness is trying to be mean--I think he is trying to contribute his thoughts in a very honest (somewhat sarcastic/harsh) way.   I think the problem is that his way is a little different than the majority.   I think what he is trying to say is---no matter what the issue is---don't take a cop out and say, things like I should not have to change, people need to accept me as I am, I probably can't fix it.   Slave/submissives are supposed to be strong and do all they can to please.    There should be no excuses---I mean it's one thing if it's a physical thing but quite another if it is really possible to over come it.

I understand---we all tend to kind of overlook things especially if it revolves around abuse.   However, Awareness, I don't think would allow past abuse to control his submissive's life and if she had not gotten to a place where her past abuse was not controlling her life then she would not be the suited match for him.    I think that is what he is saying or that is the way I understood it.

It doesn't mean that he is putting you down personally and I really do not see where he is making a blanket statement for all Dominants.    I just think he is being real and being honest in how he does things and how he sees things and his way is not the common norm.

(in reply to MagiksSlave)

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