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Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 12:41:49 PM

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Mom Kicked Out of Court for Breastfeeding

quote:

Apparently, feeding your child is something to be ashamed of -- at least according to one district court judge. Michigan resident and mother of a 5-month-old baby, Natalie Hegedus, was reportedly "called out" for breastfeeding in front of an entire courtroom, leaving her humiliated and in tears.

Ok, really? I'm sure there are plenty here that will defend her right to breastfeed where ever she wants, but there are times it is simply inappropriate.

It isn't "illegal" to use a cell phone, but don't do it in a court room. Most court rooms aren't even go to permit your child in the courtroom as he/she can create a disturbance if they get "fussy" during proceedings.

It really would not have been all that difficult for her to step out into the Atrium area to feed her child. She could have pulled a bailiff aside, explained that her baby needed to be fed and she was just stepping outside the room to do so.

So regardless of whether or not breastfeeding in public is "legal," are there times it is simply inappropriate to do so? Is it appropriate during church services? How about in the middle of a wedding ceremony?

While I do understand that many women want to breastfeed their baby and want to have the right to do when when necessary, do they really have the "right" to do it anywhere, and anytime the need arises? Or should these women actually take into consideration that there are some places where stepping out of the room is just the "right" thing to do?

ETA:

I hadn't realized there was a video attached, which prompted another question:

If a particluar place provides an area for breastfeeding (not the ladies bathroom), should a person be required to use that room as opposed to breastfeeding anywhere they choose at the facility?

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 11/14/2011 12:46:51 PM >

RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 12:45:38 PM

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^^^^^
What LayfayetteLady said!

While it a sacred, life-giving act, it could provide a inappropriate distraction from court proceedings. Not everyone is comfortable with it. When in doubt, step out and do it. Discretion is the key word here.

< Message edited by Duskypearls -- 11/14/2011 12:50:15 PM >

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 12:46:15 PM

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Feeding a hungry child takes precedence over law and religion. In my opinion.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 12:50:40 PM

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Well, that would be one reason you aren't a judge.

But really, if food and drink are not permitted in the court room (which is often the case), then even bottle feeding would be inappropriate.

If she were in the middle of her appearance, should she have interrupted the judge, to have her child breastfeed in the front of court room?

Honestly, there is supposed to be a certain degree of decorum and respect in a court. People are often not permitted to wear shorts and sandals, but dress appropriately. She wasn't handcuffed to the chair, she could have stepped out. If she were having a coughing fit, she would have been asked to step out as well. The desire to breastfeed does NOT supercede every other activity or the need to behave appropriately in any particular environment.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 12:56:33 PM

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feeding a hungry child can take precedence, yes, but you can very easily just step out into the hall...
i'm all for breastfeeding, 100%, but i think people still need to be aware that there is a time and place for everything. some people still find it offensive, it's still a little controversial. save yourself the grief, and go out into the hall. seems simple to me...

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 1:15:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyBoPeep

feeding a hungry child can take precedence, yes, but you can very easily just step out into the hall...
i'm all for breastfeeding, 100%, but i think people still need to be aware that there is a time and place for everything. some people still find it offensive, it's still a little controversial. save yourself the grief, and go out into the hall. seems simple to me...

That was my point LBP. I don't believe she shouldn't have fed her child, but it wasn't impossible for her to step out of the room. It isn't like she was on a line and would lose her place.

I don't look at this from the reality that you are right, public breastfeeding can be controversial, but more from the "time and place" perspective. There ARE times and places it is not appropriate to do something.

ETA:

I think that in part, the continued "offesiveness" occurs because of situations like this one.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 1:41:10 PM

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if she isn\t whipping her tit out in full view of everyone (she was seated in the back of the room).. what is the problem?

quote:

Writing on the community forum, BabyCenter, after the incident, Hegedus said she only brought her son to court in the first place because he had an ear infection. As they were waiting to be called, he got hungry -- and so naturally, she decided to feed him. Hegedus says her breasts were fully covered and she was sitting at the back of the courtroom.

< Message edited by GreedyTop -- 11/14/2011 1:42:39 PM >

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 1:47:27 PM

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In my opinion, a woman should be able to breastfeed her child in ANY and all locations and situations where it's okay to bottle feed a child.

That being said, whether or not it's appropriate to bottle feed a child in a court room is a whole other question.
It can cause a disturbance to bottle feed a child as well, seeing that the mother needs to unpack things, get situated, burp the baby and so on. So even if bottle feeding, she probably should have stepped outside in this instance.

I don't see a distinction between bottle feeding and breast feeding though, and if one is acceptable, the other should be too.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 1:49:00 PM

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I was thinking more about the effect of a baby with an ear infection in a courtroom.

They aren't usually quiet.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 1:59:57 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ishtarr

In my opinion, a woman should be able to breastfeed her child in ANY and all locations and situations where it's okay to bottle feed a child.

That being said, whether or not it's appropriate to bottle feed a child in a court room is a whole other question.
It can cause a disturbance to bottle feed a child as well, seeing that the mother needs to unpack things, get situated, burp the baby and so on. So even if bottle feeding, she probably should have stepped outside in this instance.

I don't see a distinction between bottle feeding and breast feeding though, and if one is acceptable, the other should be too.

Which, I did state earlier, that bottle feeding the baby in the court room would also be deemed inappropriate.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 2:06:13 PM

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If there is a dress code in the courts you have attended, LL, then they are way different than the ones here. It never ceases to amaze me the inappropriate get ups people show up in. I had a trial one time where the plaintiff wore a T shirt that said "Somewhere a Village is missing an idiot".
But, to address the OP, I think the judge was way, way out of line. He may think he is a god in his own little court room, but he really isn't. People, including those with infants, even those with breast feeding infants, are entitled to access to the courts. They are public proceedings, after all. I think that most people understand that the need of an infant for care takes precedence over almost everything. So what are you supposed to do, if you are a nursing mother, forced to sit through a motion docket that could conceivably go on for several hours? Sure, you could go out in the hall, but what if your case is called while you are outside? Most people are intimidated and unsure of the process as it is. Is it really better to have a fussy, crying infant disturbing the whole court room than it is to discreetly breast feed?
People are forced to bring their kids to court sometimes. In many cases, they can't afford a baby sitter. While the courts here used to provide child care on a limited basis, all that was done away with in the budget cuts. A family should not be denied their day in court just because they have an infant that requires care. Docket days are often a zoo as it is, what with attorneys yucking it up and people coming and going. I doubt if this woman feeding her baby was all that distracting.
I get really tired of low level judges being so self important.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 2:37:57 PM

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Personally I just don't see the big deal about breast feeding in public as long as the mom covers up so that her baby and breast are covered. It's not like she just whipped out a tit and started feeding her baby.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 2:46:29 PM

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When I lived in Florida, the court notices actually listed what was considered "inappropriate attire" and one woman was very confused when her 300 pound ass showed up in a tranparent dress with ill fitting undergarments.

She was in court for a divorce proceeding, so she wasn't what I would deem at a "low level court."

I'm sure you have pointed out to many a judge they are not "God" in their little court room, lol. The reality is that they are. Yes, most people are intimidated to a point, but that does not excuse stupidity or ignorance. Most family court rooms on the east coast aren't even going to allow a parent to bring their child in the court room, baby sitters or not. Courts here only provide child care for CPS cases, and that is because of the government workers. Joe Average doesn't get a court paid babysitter while he/she is in divorce court.

People are becoming increasingly relaxed in situations that previously were afforded some respect. Court rooms are one of those places. You aren't going to show up to argue a case in jeans and sweater, are you? And you wouldn't be surprised if the judge called you out on it if you did.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 2:52:14 PM

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But I am not some pro se who is forced to show up in court to defend a legal right with very little knowledge of the process or behaviors. I don't believe anyone should be denied their day in court because of dress (as long as they aren't naked) and definitely not because they have children.
Divorce court is definitely a low level, state court. Superior (or District) state court judges only think they are god. They aren't.
You are correct, I have not pointed out to any judges that they are not god in their own court room. That is what appeals are for. On the other hand, I have never personally seen a judge behave as this one did. For one thing, why make a big deal of it in front of the whole court? Why not send a bailiff to talk to her quietly, if it was so damn disruptive.
I do hearings examiner work from time to time. My solution is to take cases where people have brought their kids first.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

When I lived in Florida, the court notices actually listed what was considered "inappropriate attire" and one woman was very confused when her 300 pound ass showed up in a tranparent dress with ill fitting undergarments.

She was in court for a divorce proceeding, so she wasn't what I would deem at a "low level court."

I'm sure you have pointed out to many a judge they are not "God" in their little court room, lol. The reality is that they are. Yes, most people are intimidated to a point, but that does not excuse stupidity or ignorance. Most family court rooms on the east coast aren't even going to allow a parent to bring their child in the court room, baby sitters or not. Courts here only provide child care for CPS cases, and that is because of the government workers. Joe Average doesn't get a court paid babysitter while he/she is in divorce court.

People are becoming increasingly relaxed in situations that previously were afforded some respect. Court rooms are one of those places. You aren't going to show up to argue a case in jeans and sweater, are you? And you wouldn't be surprised if the judge called you out on it if you did.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 3:04:30 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

But I am not some pro se who is forced to show up in court to defend a legal right with very little knowledge of the process or behaviors. I don't believe anyone should be denied their day in court because of dress (as long as they aren't naked) and definitely not because they have children.
Divorce court is definitely a low level, state court. Superior (or District) state court judges only think they are god. They aren't.
You are correct, I have not pointed out to any judges that they are not god in their own court room. That is what appeals are for. On the other hand, I have never personally seen a judge behave as this one did. For one thing, why make a big deal of it in front of the whole court? Why not send a bailiff to talk to her quietly, if it was so damn disruptive.
I do hearings examiner work from time to time. My solution is to take cases where people have brought their kids first.

Here, Superior Court is considered "mid-level." Not the bottom (municipal) and not the top (State or Federal Supreme). Municipal judges, now THEY think they are gods of their own little worlds.

No one is denying anyone their "day in court" and most pro se litigants in Family Court aren't completely ignorant of the process.

Would it have been possible for the bailiff to pull her aside and talk to her? Probably. Honestly, in all the times I have sat in a court room, I've never seen a bailiff who didn't know how to handle these situations without "passing a note" to the judge. Bailiffs in NJ are pretty self sufficient and competant to keep things running smoothly without the help of the judge.

The article doesn't say "where" they were on the docket, was it the calendar call and instructions (which typically don't occur in divorce cases in NJ) or was she sitting waiting AFTER that portion to be called? Again, here in NJ, it is not uncommon for the court room to be cleared during divorces with everyone waiting in the hall for their name to be called. It does help with that "intimidation" factor for the pro se litigants to have a closed court room.

However, I do feel that people are becoming completely lax about far too many things. Punctuality, appearance, proper decorum are things that people seem to think are no longer that important. I have found that the people who tend to act that way are the same ones who think they are more important than those around them.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 3:29:12 PM

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Can't argue with you there. On the other hand, sometimes these things can swing too far to the other extreme.

I remember that there was a female judge in King County a few years ago, who absolutely insisted that women attorneys could NOT WEAR PANTS in her courtroom. Skirts or a dress only. She was roundly criticized, the Washington Women Lawyers Association actively campaigned against her, and she was roundly defeated for reelection. Since then, you rarely hear a peep from judges complaining about attorney's attire in court, even tho some dress completely inappropriately.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iamsemisweet

However, I do feel that people are becoming completely lax about far too many things. Punctuality, appearance, proper decorum are things that people seem to think are no longer that important. I have found that the people who tend to act that way are the same ones who think they are more important than those around them.

< Message edited by Iamsemisweet -- 11/14/2011 3:32:29 PM >

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 3:40:24 PM

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I have heard a couple stories like that, but in NJ, judges are appointed, not elected. It has its good points and bad points. The good being there is less pressure to please constituents, and the only ass kissing that goes on is BEFORE you are sitting on the bench. Once appointed, they aren't going anywhere unless there is serious misconduct, that's a bad part, lol.

Funny though that it was a female judge. I have heard of male judges doing that, but not females.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 7:57:37 PM

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I think the balif could of gone and handled it quietly, there was no need to make the lady humiliated an make her cry.

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 8:09:09 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom

I think the balif could of gone and handled it quietly, there was no need to make the lady humiliated an make her cry.

And how do you get much quieter than a handwritten note?

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RE: Breastfeeding In Court? - 11/14/2011 8:26:36 PM

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In my opinion a mother ought to be able to breast-feed her child anywhere, anytime and not need to cover up either.

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