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RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 6:16:14 PM

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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I really fail to see what the problem is, HisPet. Did you have some friend wiped out by giving his money to a findom?

I remember other threads where pro doms were asked if they reported their income on their tax returns. (Yes, I did, kthx). This feels the same.

Why this obsessive concern over something that doesnt affect you IN THE SLIGHTEST?

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 6:31:00 PM

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This whole thread has made me laugh.

Financial domination isn't one of those "Your Kink Is Not Safe" topics. Nobody is being physically harmed, there isn't a threat on modern civilization as we know it. Its not that damn dogmatic.

Bottom Lining here:

there would not be fin Dom/mes if there were no fin subs.

Nobody is being forced into it. If somebody contacts a fin dom, and they are not into pay for play, or whatever you wish to call it, they simple go about their business. If they stay, they know what they are getting themselves into.

Forced intoxication- I'm not into it at all, and i don't participate. however, i can go through my mail box and easily grab 5 or 6 messages in the last few weeks that have read similarly: "i am interested in you "forcing" me to get wasted while you rape my wallet dry." Not an exaggeration. These people know what they would be getting themselves into.

I tend not to see somebody as "heartless" if they are simply complying with something somebody asked them to do while sober. Stupid as it may be, some people get off on the very notion of getting taken for all they have.

There is consent, and there really isn't much people on the outside looking in can do about it.

_____________________________

I hate when I'm wearing my apple bottom jeans, but i can't find my boots with the fur.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 6:55:07 PM

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In having experienced and enjoyed online financial power exchange, i shall share my insight with You. I am not with a fetish to purchase things, nor with a financial fetish. I am with a belief and perspective that makes so i have no issue with financial aspects. Indeed the financial aspect very much seems logical to me. Not all online involved financial servitude but absolute most did in one degree or another. Online i have served as a financial slave to three different Mistresses and a Goddess. With Goddess it was a four year duration. Her priority is all about power, control and absolute very much includes the financial aspect. Her slaves have contributed much money and a multitude of gifts. Indeed many gifts have been sent to me to repackage and airmail to Her in that not all North American companies ship overseas. She is well provided for by Her slaves. Also She works hard at it, investing much of Herself and thus makes Her deserving. She is a financial Goddess and indeed a successful one. Regardless she works in the Oncology department looking after patients. There is mo financial need for Her to do so but She enjoys it. She has pushed all my buttons and a number of limits. Limits i professed to have in past, have mostly been broken. I have no regrets... actually i have a respect and appreciation for Her generosity, cleverness, persistence, patience and skill. Seemed as She always succeed with Her wants... if not immediately then shortly after.

What i seek is to worship and explore depths and limits of power exchange. I care little as to any specifics. I am with certain preferences but absolutely not limited to such, nor do i want to be. You talk of online intoxication... that i have rarely experienced and indeed made request to explore with Goddess. I did not find it offensive, nor dangerous. On one of those occasions She transformed me into a recycling pee machine. To some that is offensive and disgusting. To me it was intense power exchange, especially when mixed with other aspects of that evening. Indeed my avatar photo with candle melting down into inside of my mouth is from that same evening.

To better understand my acceptance of the financial aspect it is perhaps necessary to understand my early experiences were with professionals and as such a fee was paid... typically $250-300. To pay a fee in such circumstance was totally logical to me as a professional service was being rendered. I saw it similar as paying a therapist, lawyer, psychologist, accountant, etc. Also it was my habit to gift and if a excellent session to also tip $50 at end of session. House Dommes i at first gifted then stopped. Also it became so i seldom tipped House Dommes at end of session. Why? Most times it was a mediocre clock watching session. That made so when encountering Dommes(usually independents) that jumped out of the envelope and created fulfilling experience i remained to gift and tip. To migrate to online i brought this same philosophy and mindset with me. I have met some wonderful Ladies online and even to experience superb interactions on multiple levels. Scammers and inexperienced money princesses typically are easy to spot. If not immediately then shortly after. In having experienced some superbly imaginative and intense experiences online, i have no regrets. Indeed i am thankful and appreciative to have opportunity to add it to my repertoire. A service is being offered and as such i see no problem in compensating for such, providing i feel i am getting value for my tribute. There are times i absolute felt i was getting a bargain. I have never been scammed, although a few we were not compatible with my interest and expectations. For example one of my first online experiences was Princess Sierra and indeed one of my postings remain on Her website. It did not mesh with my hopes and expectations, but also i am with no complaint. She remains one of the most long standing online money Dommes. As such obviously She successfully fulfills what many seek, especially in consideration that very few money dommes remain online beyond 3-4 years.

As for Your distaste regarding financial limits, yes i have been pushed/enticed there and it can occur in a number of ways. A financial domme wants to milk Her cash cow, the smarter ones do it within limits and over a extended period of time. The successful ones maintain a small dedicated stable they generously give their time to. Goddess for example was with four to six stabled slaves, myself included. I remain to not know how She found the time, other than dedication and superb organizational skills. Outside that She interacted with others but never as generously as with Her core slaves. In truth it was intense power exchange and yes expensive! I am with no regrets and remain to consider it a cherished experience. I have only utmost respect and appreciation to these four special Ladies.

< Message edited by NibbyJibby -- 1/15/2012 6:58:31 PM >

(in reply to HisPet21)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 6:58:17 PM

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WHat an excellent post and nicely put !!!!
:)

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(in reply to NibbyJibby)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 7:27:19 PM

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I really appreciate your post, NibbyJibby. I honestly didn't expect any finsubs to come out of the woodwork and share their experiences. Thanks for stopping by and enlightening me. It was a pleasure to read your post.

A lot has been said since I was last on, but rather than address a lot of similar posts individually, I think I'll just sum up my thoughts on them all. In essence, I think we've pretty much exhausted this discussion point, at least as far as I can see. The point of the original post was to explore what financial domination is, to discuss the misconceptions that originally made me uncomfortable with it, and to address some aspects of the less ethical findoms that disturbed me. What it turned into, eventually, was a discussion on the ethics of financial domination and forced intoxication.

All in all, I think we can all agree that to each his own, different strokes folks different folks, and all that jazz. Financial slavery is just another power based kink, like any other, that finsubs and findoms can safely enjoy, together, in a consensual environment. I think that, in all likelihood, the discrimination that exists against it is due to the attitude many findommes portray, which may make them look heartless, when really they are just putting on an act to serve their clients the way they want to be served. Yeah, there will always be unethical dommes, and cops, and doctors, and other such persons out there. And perhaps the prospect of free money attracts a lot of lazy, unethical youngsters to the findom business. But as both xXBlushesxX and NibbyJibby pointed out, you can't generalize based on this. Good findommes are out there satisfying the needs of finsubs and the bad ones go out of business sooner or later.

I wish more could have been said on the specifics of findom safety. Although many have said otherwise, I do feel that draining your wallet can be dangerous to your health, just like excessive gambling can be, so findoms need to be careful. I mean, all kinsters need to be careful. But as xXblushesxX said (and I appreciate the harshness!) a magician can't give away all her tricks. While I still don't understand what ethical standards could possibly be considered "tricks," I am not a findom, so I can't speak on that point. Never-the-less, I am still curious. And, unfortunately, I still think forced intox sessions, no matter how you put it, are unethical unless a spending limit is agreed upon prior and the domme looks out for signs of alcohol poisoning, as much as she is able over cam or phone.

I appreciate all those who participated and discussed this topic, though I know its controversial, and I genuinely p*ssed a lot of people off. But really, you can't learn anything without asking a few dumb questions and getting slapped around a bit, can you? Toodles for now!

HisPet

< Message edited by HisPet21 -- 1/15/2012 7:29:38 PM >

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 7:33:13 PM

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Thank You. In truth, the deeper i gave of myself, the deeper the mutual respect; and that respect remains today. What amazed me is the depth of openness and personal aspects shared over a period of time. Goddess was with access to all accounts and credit cards. Although controlled never was it abused, never did She take funds without consent... but how does a slave refuse! The level of trust, respect and power exchange was high and remains, but it came gradually and over a period of time. I recall the first step was in sending a copy of my drivers licence and the nervousness it caused me :-) As much as i was slave we also became friends. There were many times we were online 6-8 hours or more. Sometimes we shared special occasions such as birthdays :-) and i begin to chuckle as memories pour forth. It was real, intense and sometimes a total mind fuck. There was a strong bond and strong power exchange. That can only come about when a understanding, trust and respect is established. I was sincere in my needs and willing to jump through the hoops expected of me. Each of us with expectations fulfilled. Also in that i am not a true money slave and such is not my fetish Goddess acknowledged that. I remained to pay via weekly tribute, a contract of indebtedness, penalties, tasks, sacrifices via fasting, etc., but also She ensured i received the physical and psychological aspects i sought. Any task or interaction She ensured was as innovative and real as possible. She was with excellent insight and communication skills. To Her i was unique as my interests, past experiences and capabilities were different than that of Her typical money slave. Although i speak mostly of Goddess much was similar with my other experiences. Perchance my experiences could have been opposite and negative, but i was with clear focus of my hope and expectations and remained true to such.

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 8:17:50 PM

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Money is power and so yes it is a power exchange kink. Exact as you say, different strokes for different folks, provided it adheres to SSC. The attitude financial Dommes portray i believe is a necessary one, although many outside that realm find it offensive. Much of financial dominance involves emotions and the psychological in that it typically is not physical, although mine was. Indeed much of it can be a act, but also with sincerity. With financial Dommes many could be considered as unethical, but mostly those are very easy spot or to quickly show their true colours. Where the danger comes in is the brainwashing, infatuation and addiction part over a period of time. The instance where a slave willingly, wantonly finds himself giving up everything. It is consensual and it happens. If one wants and begs then Mistress very well may arrange circumstance and comply.

When it comes to the safety aspect it comes down to ethical and non-ethical Dommes because typically a slave finds himself wanting to be done, even to beg for it. A ethical Domme will grant that wish but also be aware of limits and boundaries and how far She can extract it. Any professional money Domme is aware of the financial situation of Her slave or victim. Sometimes She will break him, sometimes just push hard. A broken slave may leave or remain, but to leave, he most often returns.

It is and shall always be a controversial subject, but you seem to have a good handle and perspective of it. To be with understanding and tolerance it is not necessary to be in agreement :-)

< Message edited by NibbyJibby -- 1/15/2012 8:20:59 PM >

(in reply to HisPet21)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 10:00:10 PM

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Quick summation

quote:

MissImmortalPain

I guess what I am missing is....do you want something done about it, or are you asking why people do it at all?

I cannot understand why the posters insisted on failing to understand this.

quote:

LadyHibiscus

Why this obsessive concern over something that doesnt affect you IN THE SLIGHTEST?

Restating a disrespected question, even doing so repeatedly, is not obsession. Calling it obsession does not answer the question, instead, it begs the question be restated. And while the snow outside my window does not affect me, it is just outside. By the same token, were Owen Wilson to leap from a giant cake to proposition a kitty litter consumer, that would not affect me, in the slightest, yet I would be... what is the word I want to use here?

In that I have learned a thing or two, this thread has been productive. But there has been more heat than light. And some of that heat was repetitive.

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

(in reply to NibbyJibby)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 10:41:33 PM

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I think what you might not realise is that many times, repetition is because not everyone reads past the first post.
or they skip lots or they posted directly from under a page of posts and miss others.
I know Ive done it many times, I dont have time to read gobs and gobs of pages. altho I do like to read the interesting ones.
just my two cents, in this particular instance I have no idea, its just a guess

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/15/2012 11:54:16 PM

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quote:

....the check is in the mail~~~nods,nods~~~

It bounced....

(in reply to switchblademoi)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 12:55:58 AM

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From: Centralia, Washington
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quote:

Lucylastic

...just my two cents...

Likewise.

My words are worth no more than the weight the reader put on them.

_____________________________

Frosted Flake
simul justus et peccator
Einen Liebhaber, und halten Sie die Schraube

"... evil (and hilarious) !!" Hlen5

(in reply to Whenready)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 1:23:33 AM

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well you seem to me to have a good head on your shoulders , you seem to be a pretty decent chap on the words Ive read from you.
I just wanted to offer up another possibility:)

_____________________________

(•_•)
<) )╯SUCH
/ \

\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
/ \

(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
/ \

Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 6:56:38 AM

MissImmortalPain

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I read the op I answered it. The OP seemed not happy with the answer so I assumed I missed her point and asked her to clear it up. And seeing as she thanked me for my second answer I think I was right in asking her what she wanted to know.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 7:12:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrostedFlake

Quick summation

quote:

MissImmortalPain

I guess what I am missing is....do you want something done about it, or are you asking why people do it at all?

I cannot understand why the posters insisted on failing to understand this.

quote:

LadyHibiscus

Why this obsessive concern over something that doesnt affect you IN THE SLIGHTEST?

Restating a disrespected question, even doing so repeatedly, is not obsession. Calling it obsession does not answer the question, instead, it begs the question be restated. And while the snow outside my window does not affect me, it is just outside. By the same token, were Owen Wilson to leap from a giant cake to proposition a kitty litter consumer, that would not affect me, in the slightest, yet I would be... what is the word I want to use here?

In that I have learned a thing or two, this thread has been productive. But there has been more heat than light. And some of that heat was repetitive.

Frosted Flake, instead of making vague generalizations, please state clearly where your dissatisfaction lies.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to FrostedFlake)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 7:54:09 AM

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I was going to ignore this thread because we seem to have these same discussions about financial domination every week, and they never seem to go anywhere. However, after reading NibbyJibby's post, I decided to comment.

First off, I wanted to commend NibbyJibby for sharing some great perspective. Much of your thinking is aligned with my own.

As others have mentioned, money may be the most universal measure of power. And there is a subset of submissives for whom there is no greater demonstration of your power than to control your sub's money. I think that many/most Dommes will find that if your sub is not specifically a "financial sub", then getting him to relinquish control of his money is one of the hardest things to accomplish. Thus, if you can overcome that barrier, then you have achieved "true" control.

"Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." -Matthew 6:21

While I have never sought out a "financial Domme", I have been dominated financially. I have had Dommes take me to the place where I willingly gave to them. Some in the form of gifts and tributes, others to much greater levels.

Anyone who is into power exchange the way that I am can quickly sniff out a scammer. Moreover, I can't stand those 20 year old "money princesses" who are constantly looking for "pay piggies".

However, (IMO) it is rare to find a woman who can successfully implement a holistic approach to domination that includes physical, mental, emotional, and yes, "financial" aspects. She controls her sub/slave so completely that there is no request to which he can say "no". The woman who can do this has truly ensnared her sub/slave in her web.

Owning and controlling all aspects of me, is very different than just saying "send me money". I respect and adore a woman who can accomplish the first. I despise a woman who does the second.

< Message edited by Rochsub2009 -- 1/16/2012 8:02:36 AM >

(in reply to HisPet21)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 8:03:40 AM

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I spoke to a female sub once, and she agreed to a no limit relationship with her dom, and his conditions includes, her quitting her job, her handing over all her money, all her bank account details to him, and worst of all, she's not allowed contact with her family anymore. For her, it was simply giving up all control of all aspects of her life. I find it extremely crazy and risky, because she's now 100% reliant on this dom to take care of her for life, while she's just a full time slave. Worst of all, they don't live in the same country, so she had to relocate to where he is, which means..., she could be really helpless there.
I reckon it must be the same kick for a man to want his domme to control his money or use his money. It is in a way, giving up control on certain aspect of your life, like your income.
Not for everybody, but different strokes for different folks.

(in reply to HisPet21)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 9:38:59 AM

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same here, but I've read all the posts and one thing I took from all this is that the most unhelpful responses were... from the findommes. You'd think that they could explain to HisPet21 quite succinctly what its all about, but instead they seem to prefer to "keep it a secret", and condemn the questions as "obsessive" intrusion into "their" kink.

One would almost think that the competition between the findommes is such that they must protect their patch as much as possible in case another findomme comes along and steals all their piggies.

Personally, I feel that the 20 year old pay princesses (who seem to take great delight in shouting how much their piggies have paid them and displaying pictures with them holding wads of cash, like some motivational business preacher attempting to tell you that they are so successful you must believe and follow them) are no more than the latest Nigeria scammers who've given up on asking you to transfer their billions. At least the "slave wanting to relocate to new master" and "one off tribute to prove you're serious" ads have stopped :)

So what's the difference between findommes and prostitutes? I can't think there's much, many 'pro dommes' don't go near their sub's danglies anyway, so maybe the distinction is too small to notice. Perhaps the findommes would do a lot better if they did approach the subject with a more .. professional manner. Up front and transparent with no suggestion of scam. Maybe then the kink wouldn't bother the rest of us in the same way.

(in reply to Rochsub2009)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 9:55:15 AM

jj292

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I look at it more as a twist on an old stereotypical gender role of the male being the provider.

Think about it, findom is not really a whole lot different than vanilla life. Men pay for dates. Men are supposed to take care of and provide for his gf/wife. Men always buy gifts for their gf. Fathers have a tendency to spoil and coddle their daughters. Etc, etc... Marriage was a necessity for women in the past because they were dependent on their husband to provide for the household. Western society is well beyond that now. But old traditions die hard.

Findom is simply a twist on this dynamic. The sub still maintains control though. If a findomme is relying on her subs to pay her rent, food, clothes, and everything else and she suddenly loses the loyalty of these subs and her cash flow ends, she's out on the street unless she can get a real job. The male subs are still the ones making the money and are the decision-makers in the whole thing.

If you want a truly financially-controlled relationship, YOU would be making the money while keeping other partner from making any. That could then lead to a true dependency situation. And like it's been mentioned in this thread already...there are some male doms that demand this on their female subs. They make the money and then demand their female subs to not make anything or not enough to support themselves. That's how they gain that situation of dependency. That is true financial domination.

When a findomme or a prodomme makes their male subs pay, they claim it is control. But it's not. The control is an illusion. It's the woman playing into a male fantasy. The male sub still maintains control of whether or not to give the money. If the woman doesnt play into his kinks and fantasy anymore, he'll dump that woman and find someone else. So he's still in control.

I know some get into other things like blackmail. That's illegal no matter how you want to phrase it or set it up. As soon as it becomes non-consensual, it's illegal and a violation of BDSM's golden rule of SSC. And with that kind of play, it's very difficult to determine when the consent stops. So play with that at your own risk.

< Message edited by jj292 -- 1/16/2012 10:01:47 AM >

(in reply to jaslyn82)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 10:05:45 AM

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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bittenkiss

same here, but I've read all the posts and one thing I took from all this is that the most unhelpful responses were... from the findommes. You'd think that they could explain to HisPet21 quite succinctly what its all about, but instead they seem to prefer to "keep it a secret", and condemn the questions as "obsessive" intrusion into "their" kink.

One would almost think that the competition between the findommes is such that they must protect their patch as much as possible in case another findomme comes along and steals all their piggies.

Personally, I feel that the 20 year old pay princesses (who seem to take great delight in shouting how much their piggies have paid them and displaying pictures with them holding wads of cash, like some motivational business preacher attempting to tell you that they are so successful you must believe and follow them) are no more than the latest Nigeria scammers who've given up on asking you to transfer their billions. At least the "slave wanting to relocate to new master" and "one off tribute to prove you're serious" ads have stopped :)

So what's the difference between findommes and prostitutes? I can't think there's much, many 'pro dommes' don't go near their sub's danglies anyway, so maybe the distinction is too small to notice. Perhaps the findommes would do a lot better if they did approach the subject with a more .. professional manner. Up front and transparent with no suggestion of scam. Maybe then the kink wouldn't bother the rest of us in the same way.

I'm not a findom, I used to be a pro dom, but I just beat ass or played dress up. I think about it, but it's a lot of work, getting into someone's head that way.

What deep trade secrets are you interested in? WE GET PURSUED. Even those pay princesses (who I find repulsive, personally) get people sending them things. And it has to be things, or gift cards, or some damn thing like that. I want men to send money to my favorite charities---and that is MOST unsexy. If someone sends me money--and yes, it's happened--I have to spin it so it makes him happy. Once one of my foot guys spontaneously sent me pedicure money, and he was so pleased to hear my description of the experience!

It's a KINK. That so many people get SO het up over SOMEONE ELSE'S MONEY shows the power of cash in our society. Findom is just another transaction, like pro domination, like getting a massage, a lap dance, or yes, hiring an escort or prostitute. It's all sex work, even for those of us who never had sex, or who only talk on the phone.

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]

(in reply to Bittenkiss)

RE: Why Financial Domination Bothers Me... - 1/16/2012 12:49:51 PM

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bittenkiss

same here, but I've read all the posts and one thing I took from all this is that the most unhelpful responses were... from the findommes. You'd think that they could explain to HisPet21 quite succinctly what its all about, but instead they seem to prefer to "keep it a secret", and condemn the questions as "obsessive" intrusion into "their" kink.

One would almost think that the competition between the findommes is such that they must protect their patch as much as possible in case another findomme comes along and steals all their piggies.

Personally, I feel that the 20 year old pay princesses (who seem to take great delight in shouting how much their piggies have paid them and displaying pictures with them holding wads of cash, like some motivational business preacher attempting to tell you that they are so successful you must believe and follow them) are no more than the latest Nigeria scammers who've given up on asking you to transfer their billions. At least the "slave wanting to relocate to new master" and "one off tribute to prove you're serious" ads have stopped :)

So what's the difference between findommes and prostitutes? I can't think there's much, many 'pro dommes' don't go near their sub's danglies anyway, so maybe the distinction is too small to notice. Perhaps the findommes would do a lot better if they did approach the subject with a more .. professional manner. Up front and transparent with no suggestion of scam. Maybe then the kink wouldn't bother the rest of us in the same way.

Besides the question of what safety measures I personally put in place, (which I will not answer for my own reasons) what questions did I fail to address? Since findoms are among the most denigrated and seemingly the most hated on sites such as this, you'd be hard pressed to find almost anyone who identifies as such to calmly and civilly answer almost all questions, and politely put up with posts that insinuate that we are prostitutes, that we care only for ourselves, that we are liars, scam artists, and any number of evil things.

The difference between a findom and a prostitute? I would begin with the fact that we don't have sex with our clients or provide sexual favors and go from there. Then again, many people claim that there's not any difference between a housewife and a prostitute. I disagree with both of those assertions, but you are welcome to your own opinion.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com

(in reply to Bittenkiss)

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