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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 9:12:39 AM   
SternSkipper


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quote:

I do believe that people (a vast majority of people) need religion. I think religion provides people with a way to make sense of the world, prevents them from having to deal with too much ambiguity, and placates fear about both existence and the after-life. And for many, if they need religion to deal with those issues, they simply can't fathom how I could exist without the same need. So their conclusion is that, well obviously something is deeply wrong with her.


Well ... that was pretty brave coming up for air in such verbosity. Cool. I understand completely that manner of thinking. I don't think there's a need to feel (at least not here.. since we are all fucked up past repair in one form or another) that a "mix of horror, disgust, pity and fear" HAS to be the uniform response. Course, I don't live where you do. So I sure can't second guess.
But I would say that I think there are a lot of people like me, who were raised heavily catholic and have evolved this manner of looking at our Christianity that is decidedly different that I read in people's descriptions.
For instance, the more I think about Christ, the more I think of him as a person, and the more I think about my christianity as a philosophy as opposed to an unwavering set of beliefs in something supernatural. I guess I look at him and his life as a set of lessons in how to conduct one's life more than anything. My sister, who has been decidedly more traditional describes it like "you have created a jesus for yourself who's more like Santa Claus". And I don't yet know how much I agree or disagree with that. I see a lot of his principles as a guide. And that's sort of where it stands with me.
I often hear 'christian guilt' associated with charitable conduct (which is NOT necessarily giving handouts because we feel bad for what we have). I volunteer with my son some really cold nights helping get homeless people to hop in a van and consent to be taken to Pine Street Inn (an not that much maybe two times a year... cause that's what's needed). Those people have issues and they need to be offered the choice in very basic terms.
And I almost want to PUKE when I see the simplicity of his philosophy used as a stick to beat people with. And it sure has.
And I experience more disgust than ever of late with statements, so-called Christians make when supporting their modality of materialistic behavior.
I understand that it's harder to live a 'simple life' free of material things these days. But that doesn't mean the race for the greatest wealth is in any way right. And throwing a fucking cross on it makes it no less ugly.
So back to the original point. When I look at you, I see a person with what looks like a well formed conscience guiding her. And not much else.


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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 9:16:01 AM   
Yachtie


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

quote:

That underscores, as one example, much of the animosity between atheists (most notably the hard core; Dawkins, Harris, Hitchens, and even Dennett) and the religious. Not for specifically what is stated as the base is sound, but the why of it. Two camps, both laying claim to differing foundations of right and wrong; morality.


This is an old story that predates Dawkins. He is only the current incarnation of evil. I found this a very informative book on the history of Doubt



Read some of the reviews. Looks quite interesting. I may read that book one of these days, when I've cleaned my reading list up a bit.


Just blew me away to learn how long this battle has been on going!!



Atheism is not new. I'd posit it goes as far back as when the devil first convinced some he did not exist.

(some might understand what i mean)

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 9:23:14 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Atheism is not new. I'd posit it goes as far back as when the devil first convinced some he did not exist.


Atheism [doubt and disbelief] pre-existed the Abrahamic religions and thier sick invention of a fiery bogyman.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 9:52:21 AM   
RemoteUser


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Fear or loathing...?

I have not personally seen that atheists are feared, by and large. They might be challenged, but that comes with the territory. While I was atheist (for many years, you may also apply the word disenchanted if it tastes better) I came from a heavy religious background. If atheists were to be scorned or reviled it was because they challenged deities through their existence. A devout follower would take offense to a perceived slight (though not always immediately assume it) against their god, especially if there are methods for dealing with infidels.

Fear might be easier. I'd say if an atheist garners anything more than an incensed debate that the driving emotion is hate, not fear. We hate what is evil, and evil is sometimes the label for what is not righteous or good. o_O

[This opinion is highly coloured, like a crayon book, with influences ranging from geography and chronology to my own vivid internal mess. Don't take it seriously or when you die, Purgatorio will screw you up.]

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 9:56:09 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

Fear might be easier. I'd say if an atheist garners anything more than an incensed debate that the driving emotion is hate, not fear. We hate what is evil, and evil is sometimes the label for what is not righteous or good. o_O

[This opinion is highly coloured, like a crayon book, with influences ranging from geography and chronology to my own vivid internal mess. Don't take it seriously or when you die, Purgatorio will screw you up.]


I will make note of your primary color qualifyer , but I think you have a good point when you mention 'fear' as a motivator for intolerence of non-believers.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 9:56:52 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I am a lifelong atheist. I actually *remember* the moment when it struck me that all the stuff the nuns were saying? THEY BELIEVED IT WAS FACTUALLY TRUE. Not just a story, like the myths I was reading on my own time. How I kept my equanamity I am not sure, but I was a well behaved and respectful child.

When faith based friends have found out I was an atheist, they've been shocked. As if it just couldnt be that such a person as myself wouldn't believe in god. "But you're very spiritual", they say. And I suppose that's true, if irrelevant. I certainly have a worldview, and a strong sense of honour and 'rightness'. I have studied many religions, and respect many paths. I just don't think that some flaming skyfather is watching me, much less that it cares one whit what I do or don't do.

In turn, I look at the endless Christian comments spattered on my Facebook feed, and want to moan in pity. I am sorry that I will never comprehend their faith, it's an uncrossable chasm between me and some of my dearest friends. We are lucky in that our love and respect for each other transcends our mutual bafflement.

I can't sit on my high horse and say that it's so great not having the giant safety net of faith, because it's all I've known. We humans have each other, for far too brief a time. That's all there is, and it's one hell of a lot. That very idea, that there is nothing beyond ourselves, is SCARY. We are scary for believing it.


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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:02:07 AM   
submaleuk12


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For those championing dawkins, I would recommend looking into the work of Cambridge scientist rupert sheldrake, he has the polar opposite view of Dawkins but is just as intelligent, here's one example where he talks about the afterlife..



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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:03:24 AM   
submaleuk12


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frJpThIims8&sns=em

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:08:40 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

I can't sit on my high horse and say that it's so great not having the giant safety net of faith, because it's all I've known. We humans have each other, for far too brief a time. That's all there is, and it's one hell of a lot. That very idea, that there is nothing beyond ourselves, is SCARY. We are scary for believing it.


Scary? Perhaps because we cling so dearly to the privileged life that we know. Anyway, it is reputed that Mark Twain said "I was dead a million years before I was born and that was not inconvenient." So, not to worry.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:09:07 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I don't think that people of faith aren't intelligent, they fall all over the spectrum. I just find their need for faith baffling.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:10:00 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: submaleuk12

For those championing dawkins, I would recommend looking into the work of Cambridge scientist rupert sheldrake, he has the polar opposite view of Dawkins but is just as intelligent, here's one example where he talks about the afterlife..





I didn't notice anyone championing Dawkins in this thread. Perhaps I missed it.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:11:53 AM   
vincentML


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I don't think that people of faith aren't intelligent, they fall all over the spectrum. I just find their need for faith baffling.


Agree. And I find my lack of need just as baffling. Don't know what makes us tick that way.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:14:53 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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Any Atheist who actually believes Non-Atheists are somehow "scared" of Atheism is one DUMB Atheist!!!

The "homeless guy" example is yet further proof of how DUMB ATHEISTS -- who stupidly think they understand the Bible/Christianity -- actually are, as they clearly have never heard the expression, "God helps those who help themselves", or that a core tenet of Christianity is discernment.

Some of the DUMBEST people in this world are those Atheists who foolishly think people of faith (be they Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, or whatever) actually give a fat-rat's furry ass what THEY think.  The reality is, THEY are the ONLY ones focusing on THEIR "Atheism" -- and this thread is a perfect example of that.

Really Atheists... nobody gives-a-shit about you beyond yourselves -- and that holds true for those idiotic Christians and Jehovah’s Witnesses that go door-to-door as well.





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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:24:36 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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Actually, MSLA, that isnt true, but you go on with your bad self.

VincentML wouldnt it be spiffy if it all just didnt matter? I had a lovely time at a friend's Shabbos dinner, followed all the cues, and felt no need to say anything negative about any of it. Is respect really that difficult? Obviously it is...

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:27:14 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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Actually, it is true... but believe (errr... non-believe) as you wish.



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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:27:50 AM   
littlewonder


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I'm a christian with strong beliefs and use intentional living to live my life. I don't have any fear whatsoever of atheists, never have. I simply don't have atheists in my life because they are toxic. Most, note I did not say all, seem argumentative and feel this need to put down christians at every turn. Now, my dad and my daughter's boyfriend was and is atheist but they never ever talk about it or even feel any need to bring it up just as I never had any reason to bring up my beliefs with them unless they asked me a question. Then I'd answer them, they'd shrug and let it go. But most atheists that I've confronted, which are quite a lot, they would ask the question and continue to argue like they somehow are going to change my mind and my faith and turn over to their side. So when they feel that need to argue, I simply walk away but yet they continue to follow me and still want to argue. I still continue to walk away with a smile in my heart for my love of God


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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:40:43 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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I don't understand the need to proseltyze in either direction. If someone says they'll pray for me, I thank them graciously. People accept my beamage and know that I am offering good thoughts and wishes.



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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:44:25 AM   
littlewonder


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Exactly but unfortunately that's just not been my experience with most atheists. I'm glad you are able to do that though.


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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 10:59:22 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

I'm a christian with strong beliefs and use intentional living to live my life.



I'd never heard of "intentional living" before?!!  Hmmm... interesting -- thanks for the new info!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intentional_living



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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 11:04:26 AM   
littlewonder


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anytime. I just wanted to show that not all of us follow this because it's how we grew up and "don't know any better". I chose to live this way, intentionally. I choose to live this way every single day of my life.

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