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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 11:30:09 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submaleuk12

I think it's the atheists who are the untolerant ones.

Like many I have a spiritual side, I'm more than comfortable with that and don't feel the need to tell others unless the subject is brought up, atheists on the other hand seem intent on attacking a person because they have a different belief to them, they should be more respectful of others.

As an atheist I'd say that is mostly crap.

There may be some small number of atheists who bring up religion so as to attack people however it is a far smaller group than the religious evangelicals who harass people that do not believe as they do.

Most atheists, myself included, think religion of all stripes is stupid and pointless but never mention it unless some one else thrusts their beliefs upon me. Why should we spend much time or effort on something we don't believe in?

(in reply to submaleuk12)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 11:31:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
I take note of this, and even find it a bit humorous -

quote:

GotSteel
ORIGINAL: SilverBoat
Atheist or Agnostic?

If you start talking to atheists a lot of us (myself and Richard Dawkins included) would answer yes to both of those.

Interesting if one goes by strict definition.

What is this strict definition of which you speak and did a Christian write it?

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 11:34:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

I am a lifelong atheist. I actually *remember* the moment when it struck me that all the stuff the nuns were saying? THEY BELIEVED IT WAS FACTUALLY TRUE. Not just a story, like the myths I was reading on my own time. How I kept my equanamity I am not sure, but I was a well behaved and respectful child.

oh you lucky girl.

I burst out laughing right as the preacher was getting into the fire and brimstone.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 11:37:13 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submaleuk12

For those championing dawkins, I would recommend looking into the work of Cambridge scientist rupert sheldrake, he has the polar opposite view of Dawkins but is just as intelligent, here's one example where he talks about the afterlife..

Sheldrake is a woo pitcher of the worst sort and has not been at Cambridge since his undergraduate days.

(in reply to submaleuk12)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 11:40:34 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Exactly but unfortunately that's just not been my experience with most atheists. I'm glad you are able to do that though.

I've found that usually when christians whine about atheists proseltyzing the truth is they inserted their faith beliefs into a conversation with said atheist who then made clear how ridiculous they found said faith beliefs.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 12:01:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder
I'm a christian with strong beliefs and use intentional living to live my life. I don't have any fear whatsoever of atheists, never have. I simply don't have atheists in my life because they are toxic. Most, note I did not say all, seem argumentative and feel this need to put down christians at every turn.

Maybe they just don't like being confronted or called toxic by you. Look at how people in general act when confronted by bigotry, we tend to get rather pissed off and argumentative. The Uncle Tom days of atheism are over, get used to it.

(in reply to littlewonder)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 12:24:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Actually, MSLA, that isnt true, but you go on with your bad self.

VincentML wouldnt it be spiffy if it all just didnt matter? I had a lovely time at a friend's Shabbos dinner, followed all the cues, and felt no need to say anything negative about any of it. Is respect really that difficult? Obviously it is...

If MSLA's ugly rant is any example of Christian charity, RESPECT is a rare commodity amongst the People of the Book, I think, LadyHibiscus.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 12:37:58 PM

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Apparently, only an "ugly rant" when it points to Atheists -- but all fine and well for the Atheists to put forth THEIR "ugly" (and nonsensical) "rants" about people of faith.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 12:42:04 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submaleuk12
I'm talking about my own experience nothing more

Which is why you were asked how many atheists you have actually met.

quote:

ORIGINAL: submaleuk12
that's all anyone can do.

No it's not. Personal experience is a poor method on account of the generally small sample size, poor controls and tendency for cherry picking.

(in reply to submaleuk12)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 12:54:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

Apparently, only an "ugly rant" when it points to Atheists -- but all fine and well for the Atheists to put forth THEIR "ugly" (and nonsensical) "rants" about people of faith.

Let me know when next you hear an atheist proclaiming relgious belief being responsible for catastrophies in the manner of Robertson and Falwell ranting against the seculars and homosexuals who brought God's wrath down upon this errant nation.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 1:02:35 PM

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Oh, I'll do better than that... I'll show EXACTLY how supposedly tolerant and respectful you Atheists are through YOUR OWN POST to another with a different viewpoint ---> http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4118977

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 1:07:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yachtie
Atheism is not new. I'd posit it goes as far back as when the devil first convinced some he did not exist.

(some might understand what i mean)

I've heard that the devil doesn't exist in Judaism, would any of the Jews in this forum care to comment on whether or not that's correct?

(in reply to Yachtie)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 1:13:15 PM

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Atheism does not scare me. Nor should my beliefs scare any atheist.

We all believe what we believe because of the path we have traveled.

Some day we might know who is right, or, hell we may never know.

I won't think you a heathen for being an atheist if you do not think me a needy lunatic for having my beliefs regarding spirituality.

Wasn't that easy?

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 1:13:51 PM

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quote:

As an atheist I'd say that is mostly crap.

There may be some small number of atheists who bring up religion so as to attack people however it is a far smaller group than the religious evangelicals who harass people that do not believe as they do.

While I agree it's total nonsense that there's any pattern of atheists using their philosophy as a high ground from which to attack people who practice faiths, and also that there are exceptions.

I think it behooves you to admit that you are not in fact an atheist and instead rely on the Arthur Murray Dance-step feet you lay out onto the floor to make all your decisions.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 1:52:54 PM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submaleuk12

I think it's the atheists who are the untolerant ones.

Like many I have a spiritual side, I'm more than comfortable with that and don't feel the need to tell others unless the subject is brought up, atheists on the other hand seem intent on attacking a person because they have a different belief to them, they should be more respectful of others.

I estimate approx 98% of the people I know to be religious from the following backgrounds, listed according to the number of people from that background who I know: Protestant, Catholic, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Buddhist, Other. I know more Protestants than any other group because I grew up in a part of the U.S. where most people come from a Protestant background. I went to school mostly with Protestants and my family worked with mostly Protestants. We lived in a neighborhood that was mixed between Protestant and Catholic, although the two groups didn't mix much. 't was probably not until grad school that I encountered a significant number of people of Jewish or Muslim background.

I have never attacked anyone in my life because they believed. If you read my post carefully, you will see that I say that people need religion. I fault no one for that need.

But throughout my life, even as a child, I have been confronted by people of other faiths who never hesitated to say, even to my face, that I was going to go to hell for not being Christian. I can only speak from my personal experience, but growing up, this was my experience.

I was raised in a religiously observant household. I do not believe in the existence of god. I do believe many people, not myself, need religion. Of my many atheist friends, not one of them goes around attacking those who are religious. We mostly want to be left alone and have our individual freedom to not believe respected. But that appears to be too much to ask of the believers.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 2:04:41 PM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Atheism does not scare me. Nor should my beliefs scare any atheist.

We all believe what we believe because of the path we have traveled.

Some day we might know who is right, or, hell we may never know.

I won't think you a heathen for being an atheist if you do not think me a needy lunatic for having my beliefs regarding spirituality.

Wasn't that easy?

Where in my post did I use the word lunatic? This is YOUR word not mine. Please don't misquote me.

I only said that many people need religion. No where do I make a judgment on that need. I have only made a judgment on the relative intolerance towards nonbelievers. Please don't portray me as attacking when I have done nothing of the sort.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 2:07:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: submaleuk12
I think it's the atheists who are the untolerant ones.

There's a difference between tolerance and agreement. We can for instance tolerate you just fine and also disagree with your position.

We can show you data that atheists are routinely subject to intolerance:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=in-atheists-we-distrust
Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America. Only 45 percent of Americans say they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate, and atheists are rated as the least desirable group for a potential son-in-law or daughter-in-law to belong to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://digitaljournal.com/article/315425#ixzz1uyQP2aYD
The study found that the only group religious people distrust as much as atheists are rapists.

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/Zuckerman_on_Atheism.pdf
According to Psalm 14 of the Bible, people who don’t believe in God are filthy, corrupt
fools, entirely incapable of doing any good. Although those sentiments were written over
2,000 years ago, non-believers are still stigmatized to this day, with recent studies showing
that a negative view of atheists is quite pervasive, especially in the United States (Harper
2007; D’Andrea and Sprenger 2007; Koproske 2006; Downey 2004; Heiner 1992).
In an extensive study of how Americans view various minority groups, Penny Edgell
et al. (2006, 230) and her colleagues found that ‘atheists are at the top of the list of
groups that Americans find problematic.’’ A Religion and Public Life Survey (2002)
found that 54 percent of Americans have an unfavorable opinion of atheists and 28 percent
have an unfavorable opinion of people who are ‘‘not religious.’’ One laboratory
study found that people gave lower priority to patients with atheist or agnostic views than
to Christian patients when asked to rank them on a waiting list to receive a kidney
(Furnham et al. 1998).

So when you run into atheists sticking up for themselves and their position it's probably not about them being intolerant of you. It's about them not wanting to keep bending over and taking the figurative butt rape forever.

(in reply to submaleuk12)

RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 2:11:07 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fucktoyprincess

quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

Atheism does not scare me. Nor should my beliefs scare any atheist.

We all believe what we believe because of the path we have traveled.

Some day we might know who is right, or, hell we may never know.

I won't think you a heathen for being an atheist if you do not think me a needy lunatic for having my beliefs regarding spirituality.

Wasn't that easy?

Where in my post did I use the word lunatic? This is YOUR word not mine. Please don't misquote me.

I only said that many people need religion. No where do I make a judgment on that need. I have only made a judgment on the relative intolerance towards nonbelievers. Please don't portray me as attacking when I have done nothing of the sort.

I didn't quote anything. It was a general reply.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 2:11:32 PM

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Thanks, GotSteel.

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RE: Why Atheism Scares People - 5/15/2012 2:25:45 PM

fucktoyprincess

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

quote:

ORIGINAL: submaleuk12
I think it's the atheists who are the untolerant ones.

There's a difference between tolerance and agreement. We can for instance tolerate you just fine and also disagree with your position.

We can show you data that atheists are routinely subject to intolerance:

quote:

ORIGINAL: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=in-atheists-we-distrust
Atheists are one of the most disliked groups in America. Only 45 percent of Americans say they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate, and atheists are rated as the least desirable group for a potential son-in-law or daughter-in-law to belong to.

etc.

I didn't quote your entire post, but yes, I am sadly aware of all of this. Why do you think I don't go around advertising my atheism.

I also find it ironic that people feel that atheists attack believers when most atheists don't want to self-identify as atheist for exactly all of the myriad of reasons that GotSteel mentions above. I have only ever defended my belief system when confronted by someone else. And usually I am confronted by someone who wants to attack me for not being, in particular, Christian. In other words, I am usually attacked NOT by people who know I am atheist, but by people who assume I am not Christian and then attack me for that. And then, yes, they get very irate when I point out that I don't believe in god at all. But of course, whether I believe in another god or no god at all, they all have no trouble reminding me that I am going to hell and that I am evil (or what was the word that one poster used - toxic). Of course these sorts of threats are really meaningless when I don't believe in hell. But I don't even bother saying things like that, because it just upsets them so. So my strategy for dealing with believers is TO LEAVE THEM ALONE.

And all I ask in return is to also BE LEFT ALONE. But it just doesn't happen. Oh wait, there's the doorbell. Two well dressed men in ties. Oy, the Jehovah's Witnesses. You know, I really don't recall the last time atheists went door to door trying to spread the word. Did I miss that movement? Please, I just really want to be left alone to do my good deeds and live out my one life on this planet with my rights protected politically and legally. Is this really too much to ask!

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(in reply to GotSteel)

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