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RE: The decline of collarme - 12/27/2012 11:13:07 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline 		Let's see if I can be a bit more clear than I was last night. This is what I see:
1. A highly solidified normed standard group by which all other opinions and perspectives are measured. I fall outside these normed standards all the time. One of the reasons I took a nearly three year walk away. Do not attack the ivory towers. This doesn't work for me at all.

2. A mob attack mentality more often used rather than reasoned discussion whether the poster being attacked is troll, dumbass, or sincere (whether misguided or not). Crap! I would be scared to death to post something like asking input on my profile or opinions on a tough situation. Can't people learn, grow, screw up, or even be human anymore? Are we as a CM community really that jaded? And, yes, I have been guilty myself and have tried to refrain from such behavior once I saw the light.

3. People not willing to give away the "keys to the kingdom" lest that information be used unscrupulously. I figure I have been at least passable as not a dumbass, yet I posted a breast nailing basics thread at least a month ago that sits with six posts, three of them I think mine. This happens to a lot of posters, new and regulars, and leaves you asking what the point is. Best just go over to Fet, join the appropriate group, and ask there. I have heard many talk of not wanting to put the "mojo" in the wrong hands. While I applaude the intent, the result is that interesting and more advanced discussion happens in private rather than out on the forums, if at all. You want better quality of discussions, then we are all going to have to make a basic assumption that we are all grown ups here and responsible for the consequences of our own actions. We don't get to blame anybody when we mess up the program even based off of someone's internet postings.

4. We can't seem to be different without being decisive. Have any clue how hard it is to keep a sub vs slave thread from devolving into chaos? I do. It ain't easy, sweethearts. Most wind up in warring factions of it's just a label, choice, limits, Goreans, natural, mutual agreement, ad infinitum. And that's just one really good discussion that I don't even entertain here anymore. There are many, many others that are good for fleshing out exactly what we think, what we believe, and who we are that I miss being able to discuss and enjoy the variance of opinions rather than feel like I am having to referee a bar fight.

5. If we wanted to use google or search, we'd just do it. If I ask some same old thing, I am hoping for new injections of perspective, experience, etc or to explore a specific aspect that interests me in particular.

6. Is it okay to even ask? Again, I wasn't born knowing how to walk or talk. I may have been born with a personality that leads me to be here, but that doesn't mean I don't have to learn how to do things safely, correctly, or whatever. If this isn't a safe place to ask, then where is?

7. I am so tired of teaching and preaching. I am here to have fun and hopefully lend a hand occasionally, but I'm not bashing my head against a wall for anybody. I leave a thread or don't answer one because there is nothing constructive I can say. Seriously, if it is wank or troll fodder, I'd like it if the mods would just clear the damn bridge. If it is a dumbass, I will try once or twice to get through then I am done. If it is a true, sincere question, I will be there as long as I am able.


8. Just because a poster calls another on their bullshit or doesn't conform to the normed standard, does not mean that they need to be moderated or banned. That's what the hell a discussion forum is for. Lack of civility, mob attacks, etc. Go ahead and moderate away. Legitimate beefs and odd or outside the norm perspectives and subject matter needs to be left alone.

9. Posts of live and let live tone are pointless. If you don't have a position, then why post? Actual perspective, opinions, experiences, and expertise move discussion forward and create quality. Apathy is a conversation killer.

10. I am not getting enough cookies. More cookies for me, happier message boards for all. I pwomise!



SD

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/27/2012 11:18:36 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity
3. People not willing to give away the "keys to the kingdom" lest that information be used unscrupulously. I figure I have been at least passable as not a dumbass, yet I posted a breast nailing basics thread at least a month ago that sits with six posts, three of them I think mine. This happens to a lot of posters, new and regulars, and leaves you asking what the point is. Best just go over to Fet, join the appropriate group, and ask there. I have heard many talk of not wanting to put the "mojo" in the wrong hands. While I applaude the intent, the result is that interesting and more advanced discussion happens in private rather than out on the forums, if at all. You want better quality of discussions, then we are all going to have to make a basic assumption that we are all grown ups here and responsible for the consequences of our own actions. We don't get to blame anybody when we mess up the program even based off of someone's internet postings.

I've been guilty of this in the past and I must admit that I still vacilate on some topics. But I agree in general. If we insist on keeping it at the 101 level to save the poor misguided newbies then it'll be 101 forever.

quote:

10. I am not getting enough cookies. More cookies for me, happier message boards for all. I pwomise!

Wait wait. You're saying that this whole problem can be solved if I send you cookies? I'm pretty sure I have an address somewhere still. How many? What type? And how long before everyone is happier with the boards? This is a VASTLY simpler solution so I'm down with it.

:) More seriously, that was a thoughtful post SD. Thanks.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/27/2012 11:20:26 PM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream
It is funny for me to imagine how some of you dig getting jabbed with pins, pissed on, punched and whatever else wets your whistle but if someone mentions something like, let's say reincarnation, you start bellowing like some indignant bunch a squares. Anyone else see this as funny?


I not only find it funny, I think you should get a cookie for pointing it out.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/27/2012 11:23:24 PM   
SacredDepravity


Posts: 270
Joined: 8/6/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: SacredDepravity

10. I am not getting enough cookies. More cookies for me, happier message boards for all. I pwomise!

Wait wait. You're saying that this whole problem can be solved if I send you cookies? I'm pretty sure I have an address somewhere still. How many? What type? And how long before everyone is happier with the boards? This is a VASTLY simpler solution so I'm down with it.

:) More seriously, that was a thoughtful post SD. Thanks.




LOTS, Jeff! And if they don't have chocolate then they are crap! Many, many cookies and all will be right with the world with one bite. The rest of the bites is cause I's a greedy bitch!

Thanks, Jeff. I am hoping I made more sense than my last post to this thread.





(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 12:05:19 AM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		To be honest, these days I simply don't bother with much serious conversation in most threads because the majority of threads on here are the same things that have been said time and time and time and time again. Most threads here are the same threads that get posted every single day here.

How many times can you talk about the difference between a sub or a slave? How many times do you wanna tell people how to tell your partner you're into bdsm? How many times do you wanna tell someone how to do anal? Or how to spot a fake? Or how to be a dominate (misspelled on purpose )? Or how to find a sub? I mean, really. There is nothing new at all.

I can be gone for months from here, come back and the same exact questions are still being posted. I feel as if I've never left. So I see no reason to post anything serious here really. I personally don't even understand the reason people post the same questions over and over again when you can just do a search and find the question having been asked at least 10 times in the last two months. If you don't find the answer you're looking for then there's something seriously wrong with what you're looking for.


_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to SacredDepravity)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 12:20:24 AM   
MissImmortalPain


Posts: 2440
Joined: 4/1/2011
Status: offline 		On the same vein you are hitting, littlewonder, I think often we don't see new things because they ....either aren't allowed or people have a fit about them. I know I have tried before to bring up things I don't often see here and most of the time the threads get jerked. I am willing to admit that not everyone is into ....breath play, gun play, blood play, TNG, etc. but after trying to think of new things to talk about and watching the threads go *poof* I have all but given up on trying now.

_____________________________

It is always by way of pain that we arrive at pleasure.

We must all go through a right of passage,and it must be physical, it must be painful,and it must leave a mark.

(in reply to littlewonder)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 12:35:45 AM   
GothDaddyDom


Posts: 8
Joined: 9/30/2008
Status: offline 		So, what I'm hearing here is that people have two problems.

First, that the moderators of the forums are over zealous and interfering. That they are running the forums in a closed manner and not allowing for diversity and open discussion.

Second, that there is no tolerance for open and differing view points and those views outside the moderators and core groups comfort zone are shouted down or struck down.


Hmmm.....sounds like every forum I've seen on the internet and BBS' for the past two, two and a half decades.

Welcome to the online experience.

And, you might bad mouth or look down on Fetlife folks, but at least over there, if you don't like the way a group is moded or the way a subject is being treated, you can start your own group and mod it yourself. I don't see that sort of freedom here.

Just sayin.

(in reply to MissImmortalPain)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 12:37:17 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline 		LP: You have cmail.

For the rest of you, I can't post my 'evidence' because it involves people being named and I'm not allowed to do that here.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 12:47:47 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline 		It's sooooooooo quiet now. I remember not being able to keep up with everything. Now you sit and wait for something to happen.

A lot of regular posters left. The group that remains seems too homogenous. We need more diversity of people and opinion. Especially, we need people who are willing to disagree and go out on a limb. We also need people who want debate and discussion rather than just socialization.

There's a much higher proportion of newbies now (both new to the forums and new to BDSM). I don't see that as good or bad.

For the record, I like the staying on topic rule.

I've been posting for several years now, and have never noticed these changes in moderation that everyone keeps talking about. (I admit, those complaints leave me mystified. What are you all saying that gets you in trouble?) Which is to say: the changes in moderation style never affected me.

Opinions on moderation and acceptable snark level seem so polarized that I wonder if it might possible to open up another heavily moderated forum and a lightly moderated forum. I've also thought about starting a No Snark Zone thread (and simply asking people to be gentle) for those posters who feel intimidated about posting on the regular forums.

I'm happy with moderation the way it is. If moderation were lighter and posters became more aggressive, I could live with it. If moderation were heavier and posters were required to get more polite... I could live with it.

Pam

< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 12/28/2012 12:50:22 AM >

_____________________________

Pam (aka gungadin09)

Forum Freak

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 12:49:08 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GothDaddyDom

So, what I'm hearing here is that people have two problems.

First, that the moderators of the forums are over zealous and interfering. That they are running the forums in a closed manner and not allowing for diversity and open discussion.

As a general rule, they don't interfere.
But they are seemingly shutting off thread drift more vigourously which sometimes stifles the conversation or debate.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GothDaddyDom
Second, that there is no tolerance for open and differing view points and those views outside the moderators and core groups comfort zone are shouted down or struck down.

That does sometimes happen.
The multitude of gun restriction threads is just one case in point.
Same subject, but discussed from a number of different and distinct perspectives - all suddenly locked down and 'merged' into a single thread that really didn't make any sense. The various angles were all lost in the merging process.


quote:

ORIGINAL: GothDaddyDom
And, you might bad mouth or look down on Fetlife folks, but at least over there, if you don't like the way a group is moded or the way a subject is being treated, you can start your own group and mod it yourself. I don't see that sort of freedom here.

Just sayin.

Many CM members are also members of Fet and I can't recall anyone on here knocking it.
I just wish I could get the bloody thing working.




(in reply to GothDaddyDom)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 12:53:45 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis
We also need people who want debate and discussion rather than just socialization.

I don't know that we need those people. I think we have them. The question is whether this is the right sort of place for debate & discussion of any serious nature. I think not so I keep all my serious topics to myself and explore them in real life or privately with folks. Here I socialize and dispense generic relationship advice like, "If you're unhappy, leave". That doesn't mean I think there's necessarily a problem. It just means CM is not the solution for all my discussion needs. It does serve other needs quite nicely though as evidenced by the fact that I'm here.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to metamorfosis)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 1:02:23 AM   
GothDaddyDom


Posts: 8
Joined: 9/30/2008
Status: offline

[/quote]
Many CM members are also members of Fet and I can't recall anyone on here knocking it.
I just wish I could get the bloody thing working.
[/quote]

I've come across no less than a dozen comments in various threads on here disparaging Fetlife. I've seen many more that back-handedly snark at Fetlife. It's a natural occurance of competition amongst the core group/fan-base of any site.

I'd love to know what problems you are having on Fetlife. I've been a member since about a month or two after it openned. I'm sure I could help. Message me if you wish.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled rants.

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 1:04:18 AM   
GothDaddyDom


Posts: 8
Joined: 9/30/2008
Status: offline 		Dang, I ment to add "in the past two days" to that sentence. (.....no less than a dozen......)

Ugh, I think I need sleep. :P lol

(in reply to GothDaddyDom)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 1:06:06 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC

quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis
We also need people who want debate and discussion rather than just socialization.

I don't know that we need those people. I think we have them. The question is whether this is the right sort of place for debate & discussion of any serious nature.


It's a forum. It should be the right place for debate and discussion of a serious nature. I'm not saying there isn't a place for socialization too, but serious discussion should not be out of place here. There was a thread recently on a science topic, and there were a number of comments from the peanut gallery, making fun of the topic itself, and some of the posters. One of them got called a "nerd" or a "geek" or something. I thought it was sad. If you don't like a thread's topic... read something else. There's no need to make fun of people for taking a serious topic seriously.

Pam

_____________________________

Pam (aka gungadin09)

Forum Freak

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 1:39:29 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: metamorfosis
It's a forum. It should be the right place for debate and discussion of a serious nature.

Perhaps to you and to me. But when you think on it a forum is just a place that people gather to talk. In the real world I would expect to go to one bar and have it be light fluffy conversation and in another it's deep philosophical discussions. Why must all internet forums be the same? It seems to me that each is going to develop a culture and this one has.

I just don't see this as the sort of place where fruitful discussion is going to come of a question like, "Can consent exist in the presence of dominance and submission?" There's a lot of set-up to that question. People would need to be open to examining the BDSM sacred cows. People would need to, at least temporarily, be willing to adopt a definition set for the sake of the conversation. I just don't see it happening here but that same question works well in a living room. Here, "consent is what separates BDSM from abuse" which I find to be a ridiculous concept. Actually, I was going to make a spin off from that thread but I ... well ... didn't bother because it's not the right place.

_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to metamorfosis)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 1:51:32 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffBC
I was going to make a spin off from that thread but I ... well ... didn't bother because it's not the right place.


I wish you would have, because I disagree that it's not the right place. I think there's plenty of room here for everyone.

Pam


_____________________________

Pam (aka gungadin09)

Forum Freak

(in reply to JeffBC)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 1:52:02 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Purple writing is impossible for me to read and it creeps me out so I dont read purple writing even if I can tell it is directed toward me by the quote box.

As far as another post saying something about being tolerant of everyone and everything (or whatever that was about) I dont feel aligned with what that person is saying. I for one certainly do not consider myself, or aspire to be tolerant of everyone or everything. I am opinionated and admit that probably more than half of it is point of view and not the full picture or understanding.

Yes people are people wherever they go, into a kink website or on the bus. Thing is though, one might imagine there is a bit more room for differing points of view here. Like for example if ya went to a lesbo bar, one might think it might be a more accommodating place to dance like crazy and not be judged.

I have witnessed so many times here when someone comes in from the left or from any other direction than middle of the road it sets some of you off and into all sorts of boring loud things. It is funny for me to imagine how some of you dig getting jabbed with pins, pissed on, punched and whatever else wets your whistle but if someone mentions something like, let's say reincarnation, you start bellowing like some indignant bunch a squares. Anyone else see this as funny?
What a shame. I've never known that purple was illegible to you. I must have been mistaken that we've had beneficial exchanges before. In the interest of being polite, I am leaving this one black in order to tell you that I will be sorry that you will be skipping My posts in the future.

For what it's worth, it isn't subjects like reincarnation that prompt Me to write dissenting opinions. If you should ever want to talk about books by Elisabeth Kublar-Ross, I'll be more than happy to discuss the subject with you.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 97
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 2:24:35 AM   
WhenLoveBeckons


Posts: 26
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
quote:

2. A mob attack mentality more often used rather than reasoned discussion


I've been banned here more often than I can count thanks to the mob mentality that is routinely supported by the mods.

And yet, over at Fet I've created and run a monogamy support group with over 900 members, over 300 topics and over 4300 posts, where I am routinely thanked for my advice, insights, support and encouragement. And I managed that in less than ten months.

Why anyone would waste their time trying to discuss anything here is beyond me. Fet offers anyone the chance to build a fully-functional discussion group without the mobs and without the over-bearing mods.

Life is good. :)

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 2:32:42 AM   
metamorfosis


Posts: 1132
Status: offline 		Again, the group you want is "collarme refugees". But snark aside, what was your old username? I'm curious to see what you got banned for.

pam

< Message edited by metamorfosis -- 12/28/2012 2:36:01 AM >

_____________________________

Pam (aka gungadin09)

Forum Freak

(in reply to WhenLoveBeckons)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: The decline of collarme - 12/28/2012 2:32:52 AM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
Joined: 2/12/2012
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhenLoveBeckons
Why anyone would waste their time trying to discuss anything here is beyond me. Fet offers anyone the chance to build a fully-functional discussion group without the mobs and without the over-bearing mods.

I agree with some of that. Fetlife allows any individual to create a group which allows for a lot of flexibility. That person (and any designated indivduals) are the mods. So whether or not there is "overbearing moderation" is group specific. Ditto with mobs. I find the "Ask a Male" group there one of the most hostile places I've seen on the internet in a long time... largely because of mobs of females. So all is not quite so rosy over on Fetlife either.

But honestly, I don't do FL simply because I can't follow a conversation there. It's the web design and nothing more. Otherwise I'd use both more extensively.


_____________________________

I'm a lover of "what is", not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality. -- Bryon Katie
"You're humbly arrogant" -- sunshinemiss
officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to WhenLoveBeckons)
Profile   Post #: 100
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