RE: What actions , if any, should I take?

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: What actions , if any, should I take?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: What actions , if any, should I take?

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 11:38:46 AM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

That's dreadful.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Profile

Post #: 21

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 11:54:12 AM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: absolutchocolat
Things like this make it difficult for women in the community to report rape.

Not intended to troll you, and this is obviously a serious matter, but don't you think a lot of that difficulty stems from the fact that things like "consensual nonconsent" are considered ok in "the community," even fetishized?

My guess is that you're more aware of the legal definition of "rape" and "sexual assault" than the average interneter. How likely do you think it is that the women are using the word according to that definition? I haven't looked at any thread on Fet, so I have less than zero understanding of this particular situation. But just judging from this thread's OP, the D person sounds like a Svengali-type who is good at recruiting women of low self-esteem who interpret sexual objectification as desirable attention. How much of this might be, "I was brainwashed and I have now realized I didn't really consent to have sex with him after all"? Do you consider that "real" rape? Is that rape in the eyes of the law?

I don't have answers to any of these questions, myself. But I do think "If there's smoke, there's fire" changes somewhat if a woman (or man) actively desires, and seeks out, objectification and slavery.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to absolutchocolat)

Profile

Post #: 22

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 12:19:43 PM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

Steven, is Tasha the type of lawyer who would represent women who had been raped? If not, could she not suggest someone appropriate for these five women to see? One person reporting date rape might be ignored by the authorities but five, represented by the same attorney who was also filing civil charges would be taken seriously. The lawyer would be the appropriate person to call the DA's office and explain that there is a serial rapist and to shepherd the victims through the process.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Profile

Post #: 23

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 12:21:17 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

Attorney General Eric Holder Announces Revisions to the Uniform Crime Report's Definition of Rape

U.S. Department of Justice
January 06, 2012

WASHINGTON—Attorney General Eric Holder today announced revisions to the Uniform Crime Report’s (UCR) definition of rape, which will lead to a more comprehensive statistical reporting of rape nationwide. The new definition is more inclusive, better reflects state criminal codes and focuses on the various forms of sexual penetration understood to be rape. The new definition of rape is: “The penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

...The revised definition includes any gender of victim or perpetrator, and includes instances in which the victim is incapable of giving consent because of temporary or permanent mental or physical incapacity, including due to the influence of drugs or alcohol or because of age. The ability of the victim to give consent must be determined in accordance with state statute. Physical resistance from the victim is not required to demonstrate lack of consent. The new definition does not change federal or state criminal codes or impact charging and prosecution on the local level.

...The longstanding, narrow definition of forcible rape, first established in 1927, is “the carnal knowledge of a female, forcibly and against her will.” It thus included only forcible male penile penetration of a female vagina and excluded oral and anal penetration; rape of males; penetration of the vagina and anus with an object or body part other than the penis; rape of females by females; and non-forcible rape.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to RedMagic1)

Profile

Post #: 24

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 2:01:58 PM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline

Someone brought up "consensual non-consent" and I understand that, as I like to engage in that.

However, and this is a BIG however, I only engage in this behavior with someone I am really intimately connected with, meaning not a play partner or someone I just met.

Now, in the past, I did go on dates with men who I misjudged on their understanding of BDSM and "consent". I had some issues with them and despite something happening that I did not want to happen, I considered it MY fault that I allowed this person near enough to me to endanger me.

I could not though, cry rape, as again, I either let them in or allowed myself to get into a situation where I could not get out of.

Context is very important here when discussing rape. I am not saying a woman is never a true victim, I am saying that a woman needs to be responsible for herself and who she chooses to be around her.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 5/3/2013 2:03:01 PM >

(in reply to kalikshama)

Profile

Post #: 25

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 2:33:14 PM

kalikshama

Posts: 14805
Joined: 8/8/2010
Status: offline

quote:

Now, in the past, I did go on dates with men who I misjudged on their understanding of BDSM and "consent". I had some issues with them and despite something happening that I did not want to happen, I considered it MY fault that I allowed this person near enough to me to endanger me.

I could not though, cry rape, as again, I either let them in or allowed myself to get into a situation where I could not get out of.

Context is very important here when discussing rape. I am not saying a woman is never a true victim, I am saying that a woman needs to be responsible for herself and who she chooses to be around her.

Ditto here on all points.

_____________________________

Curious about the "Sluts Vote" avatars? See http://www.collarchat.com/m_4133036/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#4133036

(in reply to sexyred1)

Profile

Post #: 26

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 2:51:00 PM

MHAP

Posts: 58
Joined: 9/17/2009
Status: offline

I sympathize with you conundrum, "But" it may be time to do the "right thing" and stop attending. and maybe warn others to do the same. (I know this option sucks... but.. you get to keep your soul.. )

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Profile

Post #: 27

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 3:03:58 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14413
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

I'd also like to point out:

While this might be classified as a party, she has the events somewhere around twice a month, charges admission and takes ID with a waiver. She is running this like a business.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MHAP)

Profile

Post #: 28

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 3:05:48 PM

CynthiaWVirginia

Posts: 1915
Joined: 2/28/2010
From: West Virginia, USA
Status: offline

Steven, if you do what you're thinking of doing, you're in a no-win situation. You'll be able to warn new women for a brief time before the club takes away your membership to protect their friend from you. The good you would do would be very short lived. IMHO, it's better to start a newbie class, as someone else suggested, and also encourage a (female bottom) safecaller group.

Leaving the group would only work if many others also left, IMHO, and if these people formed a different group. Staying in the group might allow you to see to it that newbies are educated enough to protect themselves...and that they will know enough fem subs or bottoms to be able to (discreetly) blacklist a predator.

(in reply to kalikshama)

Profile

Post #: 29

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 3:49:55 PM

MasterCaneman

Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I'd also like to point out:

While this might be classified as a party, she has the events somewhere around twice a month, charges admission and takes ID with a waiver. She is running this like a business.

That could be a major consideration down the road, once money is involved.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Profile

Post #: 30

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 4:00:34 PM

OsideGirl

Posts: 14413
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I'd also like to point out:

While this might be classified as a party, she has the events somewhere around twice a month, charges admission and takes ID with a waiver. She is running this like a business.

That could be a major consideration down the road, once money is involved.

The first time someone goes to the authorities and says, "I met him/her at Scarlet Moons" she's in for quite a bit of trouble. First, she'd have to hand over all those IDs and waivers. Second, she'd be faced with running an unlicensed business, possibly against the laws of her community and tax issues both personally and with her "business".

She has a lot to lose by not doing her best to find out the truth.

_____________________________

Give a girl the right shoes and she will conquer the world. ~ Marilyn Monroe

The Accelerated Velocity of Terminological Inexactitude

(in reply to MasterCaneman)

Profile

Post #: 31

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 4:06:31 PM

MasterCaneman

Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

quote:

ORIGINAL: OsideGirl

I'd also like to point out:

While this might be classified as a party, she has the events somewhere around twice a month, charges admission and takes ID with a waiver. She is running this like a business.

That could be a major consideration down the road, once money is involved.

The first time someone goes to the authorities and says, "I met him/her at Scarlet Moons" she's in for quite a bit of trouble. First, she'd have to hand over all those IDs and waivers. Second, she'd be faced with running an unlicensed business, possibly against the laws of her community and tax issues both personally and with her "business".

She has a lot to lose by not doing her best to find out the truth.

Which can be expensive and embarrassing to a lot of people, yourself included. There are lists people want to be on, and there are others you don't want to be on.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Profile

Post #: 32

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 4:38:45 PM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

Answers:

To the best of my knowledge, nobody's pressed charges.

I do know as a fact that he's going through women at a burn rate of about one every other month. None of the women that have dropped him, have him on their Friends list.

He did make a written statement to the Mentors Program, when he announced his resignation, that he was innocent. No other details. I consider that suspicious.

He has not raped anyone at the parties. He has met all the women elsewhere first.

I really appreciate everyone's input. It's helping me get a better handle on this mess.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Profile

Post #: 33

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 6:51:23 PM

Aswad

Posts: 9374
Joined: 4/4/2007
Status: offline

I'm not sure I understand what the dilemma is. You heard allegations about a guy on the Internet, and now you wonder if you should start socially attacking him with stalker behavior, or whether you should wait until you have something more substantial to go on, or maybe even wait until he's been proven guilty. The obvious answer is, you should wait, and if you feel it is pressing, you should try to find out more before acting.

Don't go off half-cocked. At the moment, you're not guilty of anything, nor do you have an obligation to act. When you do act, you are creditable with some possibly useful warnings if he proves guilty, but if he proves innocent, then you will be guilty of an unprovoked and vicious attack which may leave lasting harm. The moral risk involved is substantial. Would you rather be part of a lynching of an innocent, or a principled bystander of what may or may not be a preventable rape?

In general, I prefer to be sure I have cause before I attack someone.

Preferences may vary on that point.

IWYW,
— Aswad.

_____________________________

"If God saw what any of us did that night, he didn't seem to mind.
From then on I knew: God doesn't make the world this way.
We do." -- Rorschack, Watchmen.

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Profile

Post #: 34

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 7:51:08 PM

StrictlyADomina

Posts: 103
Joined: 7/11/2011
Status: offline

We would be here for many days debating the point of "did he rape these women as some have related or is this information false". We all know that rape is under reported. Here is a link indicating that less than half of rapes/sexual assault are reported. http://www.nij.gov/topics/crime/rape-sexual-violence/rape-notification.htm. We all know that some get away with it and some are falsely accused. Regrettably, we will not solve this tragic problem on this discussion board.

So the issue becomes what to do? If it were me, I might worry about my reputation in being in a group and supporting a group (even with only my presence) where this type of person might be harbored. A suggestion might be to host your own event/party invite who you want. You have friends there apparently. I'm sure they would be delighted to see you even if it were at another location.

Just a suggestion,
Strictly A Domina

(in reply to OsideGirl)

Profile

Post #: 35

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 8:05:04 PM

UllrsIshtar

Posts: 3693
Joined: 7/28/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

My issue is that Fetlife shows party attendees ahead of time. I could easily pick off the attendees-to-be that he would be interested in, open up conversations with them, and warn them of B. I want to head off any possible issues for them.

Should you mess with allegations that -if true- should be left for law enforcement to deal with, with you having no evidence about who is right and who is wrong, and the guy hasn't been convicted, by randomly notifying people that other people are saying bad things about a person you personally don't know very well?

No, I don't think you should do that at all.

In fact, I would sincerely hope that doing something like that would be beneath you.

_____________________________

I can be your whore
I am the dirt you created
I am your sinner
And your whore
But let me tell you something baby
You love me for everything you hate me for

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Profile

Post #: 36

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 8:59:59 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

Butt out. Leave it be. They're big girls. You are not their protector, their rescuer.

As for the the person who runs the parties, her house, her rules. If you don't like it, don't attend.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. As of right now all you have is a guy who likes to casually fuck and play and girls who say he raped them but yet they have not gone to the police and they still hang out at the same group and they advertise their rape on a fetish/sex site. For all you know, all these women allowed it to happen because they decided they were too horny at the time and then changed their minds afterwards or they all are drama llamas and this guy has a thing for attracting crazies.

Right now all you have are rumors and you feeling like you should be the the one to save all these women from nothing more than rumors and a man who likes to love em and leave em.

< Message edited by littlewonder -- 5/3/2013 9:08:06 PM >

_____________________________

Nothing has changed
Everything has changed

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Profile

Post #: 37

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 9:07:08 PM

Spiritedsub2

Posts: 3315
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: StrictlyADomina
...
So the issue becomes what to do? If it were me, I might worry about my reputation in being in a group and supporting a group (even with only my presence) where this type of person might be harbored. A suggestion might be to host your own event/party invite who you want. You have friends there apparently. I'm sure they would be delighted to see you even if it were at another location.
...

This was exactly my thought when I read your OP, Steven. And personally I think highly of your instinct to protect. It's a quality I think suits a Dom well.

_____________________________

Don’t grieve. Anything you lose comes round in another form.
~ Rumi

Laughing Dolphin

(in reply to StrictlyADomina)

Profile

Post #: 38

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/3/2013 9:36:59 PM

MasterCaneman

Posts: 3842
Joined: 3/21/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Butt out. Leave it be. They're big girls. You are not their protector, their rescuer.

As for the the person who runs the parties, her house, her rules. If you don't like it, don't attend.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. As of right now all you have is a guy who likes to casually fuck and play and girls who say he raped them but yet they have not gone to the police and they still hang out at the same group and they advertise their rape on a fetish/sex site. For all you know, all these women allowed it to happen because they decided they were too horny at the time and then changed their minds afterwards or they all are drama llamas and this guy has a thing for attracting crazies.

Right now all you have are rumors and you feeling like you should be the the one to save all these women from nothing more than rumors and a man who likes to love em and leave em.

I'm gonna second this answer, because it seems to make the most sense in this situation.

_____________________________

Age and treachery will always overcome youth and ambition.

The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting. ~ Sun Tzu

Goddess Wrangler

(in reply to littlewonder)

Profile

Post #: 39

RE: What actions , if any, should I take? - 5/4/2013 5:02:01 AM

LafayetteLady

Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterCaneman

quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

Butt out. Leave it be. They're big girls. You are not their protector, their rescuer.

As for the the person who runs the parties, her house, her rules. If you don't like it, don't attend.

Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty. As of right now all you have is a guy who likes to casually fuck and play and girls who say he raped them but yet they have not gone to the police and they still hang out at the same group and they advertise their rape on a fetish/sex site. For all you know, all these women allowed it to happen because they decided they were too horny at the time and then changed their minds afterwards or they all are drama llamas and this guy has a thing for attracting crazies.

Right now all you have are rumors and you feeling like you should be the the one to save all these women from nothing more than rumors and a man who likes to love em and leave em.

I'm gonna second this answer, because it seems to make the most sense in this situation.

I'm going to *third* this.

The only information you have seems to be what other people have said, and these women's posts on FL. You don't say that you have reached out to the man or even the party host to find out anything about the other side of this. Law enforcement would at least find out his side, but you want to take on the part of judge and jury, warning people off of a rumor.

In the case Oside talked about the first woman was hospitalized after her attack. You mention nothing like that in your situation. That's a HUGE difference in situations.

I'm not saying this guy is completely innocent, but these are adult women, or claim to be since they are attending. Did THEY speak to the host about this guy's behavior? There just seems to be absolutely NO FACTS here, but you are willing to go off half cocked to protect others. Would you like it if someone did that to you?

I agree with others who have said that since you are so concerned, try to get some more information, talk to the party host and find out why she is unconcerned. I'm sure it is about more than her simply being friends with this guy. Approach the guy yourself.

I don't find it the least bit odd that the only thing he said was that he was innocent of these women's claims. Have you considered that maybe he is more of a gentleman that you expect, not wanting to tear these women down? Someone who is guilty will offer all kinds of excuses and reasons for their being innocent. Someone who is innocent doesn't feel the need to do anything except deny the claim and move on with his life.

Although it may be an unpopular opinion, I think you are way out of line here. Being a mentor means you help people learn how to handle situations, learn more about the lifestyle in general. A mentor's job is not to spread rumors, and in fact, that is the opposite of what a mentor should be doing.

Find out more information, and then do something, stay and say nothing, or stop attending the parties.

(in reply to MasterCaneman)

Profile

Post #: 40