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RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:24:31 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No he tried the door... There was no danger...No kicking in... no shoulder against the door. There is just no way to justify this shooting.

Butch



BULL... wait for it... SHIT.

You and the gundiot gang are playing with hindsight, which is a nifty luxury not available to the person dealing with an intruder in the dark.

The basis of the castle doctrine is that the law doesn't get to second guess the decisions of a lawful resident dealing with an intruder. It goes for internet whiners as well.

Clean shooting. Case closed. Get over it. If somebody decides to keep the Alzheimer's patient at home, keep track of them. If someone is to blame, it's the family of the dead guy.

Not castle doctrine since it wasn't inside the man's home.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:28:16 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But... there was NO attempt to break in so there was NO excuse to confront and kill... The police would have taken care of the situation if given a chance.

Let me tell you a story... Many years ago as a young man I had a job with my local municipality. One blizzard on a deserted country road... long after midnight... my truck broke down. Back before cell phones and even radios in trucks I had little choice but to hike up a framers road and knock on the door to use their phone. It was very cold and I was in danger of exposure if I did not get help.

I had to knock and knock...and knock some more before through the door I heard the farmer ask who it was. Yes I asked him to call a number for me... I did not ask to come in... He did i survived... But if knocking on the door was an excuse to kill I would not be telling this story.


Butch

Did he tell you to go away when you didn't identify yourself followed by you going around to the back door.
Did you advance on him with a weapon in you hand after being warned not to three times (and yes a flashlight
can be a lethal weapon)?
Maybe the parallel isn't as direct as you would like to pretend.
He didn't shoot him for knocking on the door it was for the other things I just pointed out.
Had you done those things you wouldn't be here to make silly arguments.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:29:22 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No he tried the door... There was no danger...No kicking in... no shoulder against the door. There is just no way to justify this shooting.

Butch



BULL... wait for it... SHIT.

You and the gundiot gang are playing with hindsight, which is a nifty luxury not available to the person dealing with an intruder in the dark.

The basis of the castle doctrine is that the law doesn't get to second guess the decisions of a lawful resident dealing with an intruder. It goes for internet whiners as well.

Clean shooting. Case closed. Get over it. If somebody decides to keep the Alzheimer's patient at home, keep track of them. If someone is to blame, it's the family of the dead guy.

Not castle doctrine since it wasn't inside the man's home.

Yes Castle doctrine since it was on his property.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:32:27 AM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No he tried the door... There was no danger...No kicking in... no shoulder against the door. There is just no way to justify this shooting.

Butch



BULL... wait for it... SHIT.

You and the gundiot gang are playing with hindsight, which is a nifty luxury not available to the person dealing with an intruder in the dark.

The basis of the castle doctrine is that the law doesn't get to second guess the decisions of a lawful resident dealing with an intruder. It goes for internet whiners as well.

Clean shooting. Case closed. Get over it. If somebody decides to keep the Alzheimer's patient at home, keep track of them. If someone is to blame, it's the family of the dead guy.

Not castle doctrine since it wasn't inside the man's home.

Yes Castle doctrine since it was on his property.

No. Castle doctrine is inside the home only.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:38:47 AM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		Nope and he didn't come outside like a yahoo looking for me with a gun either. There are many situations where gun owners can be defended this is not one of them Bama.

Second... other reports of the tragedy do NOT say he went around back... only that the gunman went out the back to confront him... But even if he did knock on the back door... why do you think that is an excuse to kill anyone!

Why is knocking on the door a capital offense... why take a life so carelessly...why do you insist on defending an obvious egregious use of a weapon that displays gun owners in such a bad light?

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:39:32 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No he tried the door... There was no danger...No kicking in... no shoulder against the door. There is just no way to justify this shooting.

Butch



BULL... wait for it... SHIT.

You and the gundiot gang are playing with hindsight, which is a nifty luxury not available to the person dealing with an intruder in the dark.

The basis of the castle doctrine is that the law doesn't get to second guess the decisions of a lawful resident dealing with an intruder. It goes for internet whiners as well.

Clean shooting. Case closed. Get over it. If somebody decides to keep the Alzheimer's patient at home, keep track of them. If someone is to blame, it's the family of the dead guy.

Not castle doctrine since it wasn't inside the man's home.

Yes Castle doctrine since it was on his property.

No. Castle doctrine is inside the home only.

Wrong again, I know that here it extends to your property line, and I believe it does most places.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:42:23 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Nope and he didn't come outside like a yahoo looking for me with a gun either. There are many situations where gun owners can be defended this is not one of them Bama.

Second... other reports of the tragedy do NOT say he went around back... only that the gunman went out the back to confront him... But even if he did knock on the back door... why do you think that is an excuse to kill anyone!

Why is knocking on the door a capital offense... why take a life so carelessly...why do you insist on defending an obvious egregious use of a weapon that displays gun owners in such a bad light?

Butch



The point were he decided to shoot came after he had warned the man not once, not twice, but three times
to stop advancing on him why do you ignore that this is the key element in the shooting?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:47:26 AM   
Lucylastic


Posts: 40310
Status: offline 		KD thankyou for making sense... i cant add anything you and Ken have said. For people to be so blase about the death of a sick man makes me sick.

_____________________________

(•_•)
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\(•_•)
( (> A NASTY
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(•_•)
<) )> WOMAN
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Duchess Of Dissent
Dont Hate Love

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:48:46 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
No. Castle doctrine is inside the home only.



That depends on the state. It can be anything from inside the walls of the primary residence, to the complete curtilage.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to DomKen)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimers - 3/2/2014 11:55:20 AM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
why do you ignore that this is the key element in the shooting?



Because facts don't matter, and are frequently counterproductive to the gundiot POV.

The wife and I were talking about this over breakfast. We are glad we have big dogs.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 12:41:00 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

KD thankyou for making sense... i cant add anything you and Ken have said. For people to be so blase about the death of a sick man makes me sick.


By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing.

They don't see a dope with a gun.

Look at this case and think of the odds. All you need is one gun nut per jury to acquit.

(in reply to Lucylastic)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 12:43:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

KD thankyou for making sense... i cant add anything you and Ken have said. For people to be so blase about the death of a sick man makes me sick.


By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing.

They don't see a dope with a gun.

Look at this case and think of the odds. All you need is one gun nut per jury to acquit.

Or 12 sane people.
Your accounting would mean a hung jury.
I know this is difficult to follow but a hung jury and an acquittal are not the same thing.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 3/2/2014 12:45:47 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 12:58:12 PM   
cloudboy


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Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
Thanks for making that important point. I will wait to see who gets convicted after the first hung jury.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 1:01:07 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Thanks for making that important point. I will wait to see who gets convicted after the first hung jury.

That should be Dunn

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 1:05:17 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing.




That's a consequence of lumping anybody who disagrees with you into a single category, and using hate speech to describe them.

As I mentioned above, we have big dogs on the premises, so no, we wouldn't have handled it the same way. The dogs would have gone out first, and I've had followed with the 4-cell maglite (a damn good weapon btw) and the wife covering me with her 9mm, with the phone on speaker and her cussing 911 for the shitty ass response time.

But that is me, in my house. He was in his, and the decisions he made are his own.

Now then, would any of the gundiots care to answer for why the crazy old man was out wandering the streets?

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 3/2/2014 1:08:38 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 2:02:14 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		C'mon now, chop chop, kids. Can't we clearly see this as an indictment of all care providers? Obviously, we need registration, and background checks, though it might be best to just require all Alzheimer's victims be institutionalized, because we can see from this case that nobody is qualified to handle the responsibility.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 2:23:09 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

KD thankyou for making sense... i cant add anything you and Ken have said. For people to be so blase about the death of a sick man makes me sick.


By calling it a "clean" shooting, one gets the idea that respondents here would have done the same thing.

They don't see a dope with a gun.

Look at this case and think of the odds. All you need is one gun nut per jury to acquit.


Still painting all gun owners with that same broad brush I see. Had it been me I highly doubt that I would have shot the guy but then I wasn't there either and I don't know what was going on in the mind of the shooter.

And another thing is you keep lumping in other incidences with this one. No two scenarios are exactly the same. Would I have shot some skittle eating thug pummeling my head into the concrete ? Probably I would have. Would I have gotten into the same situation as Zimmerman in the first place ? I highly doubt it.

There were 2 times I've mentioned before where I had a hand on my gun ready to draw but a third time comes to mind. I was upstairs talking to my room mate when the door opened and someone started coming up the stairs. I retrieved my revolver and stood ready. They guy gets to the top of the steps and it turns out he's a friend in a drunken state. You'd think he would have had the courtesy to knock. I thought I would wait to see who my target was but for a minute there, me and my room mate were scared shitless.


_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

(in reply to cloudboy)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 2:52:25 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline
It might help if you called this particular shooter a reckless dope lacking in both common sense and courage.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 2:53:42 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline 		I can't believe you are trying to blame the victim or his family.

I don't know about the rest commenting here but I believe that over the last 15 years there has been a concerted effort on the part of republican policy makers to gain votes with scare tactics when it comes to gun control.

I agree no more gun laws are needed if the NRA and the Republican party would come out against the irresponsible use of guns. But instead they are encouraging this wild west type of behavior....And initiating legislation to promote it…not because it is needed but to get votes.

How many threads have we had like this where senseless tragedies are killing innocents… too many for me. All I hear are the same old crap about gun rights and the need for personal protection… Will it seems the only protection needed is from fellow gun nuts.

I want my guns… I want to keep my rights… but if this killing goes on much longer the majority will take your toys away…and I don’t want that.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 3/2/2014 3:02:40 PM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Senseless shooting: Gunman kills man with Alzheimer... - 3/2/2014 3:13:00 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I can't believe you are trying to blame the victim or his family.



While I'm completely unsurprised that nobody on the gundiot front is prepared to have their methodology thrown back in their faces.

Whoever was responsible for the care of the dead guy failed. What's hard?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 80
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