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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/14/2014 8:19:09 PM

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DaddySatyr what I recently wrote should interest you because it may shed light on Vatican II and the goals of Vatican II. Why did the Church attempt to make itself more agreeable to Protestants?

See http://www.ewtn.com/library/councils/v2all.htm. I do find the dates suspicious, however. 1963-5, the sixties? That these documents were published in the 1960s makes me suspicious.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/14/2014 8:24:48 PM

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DaddySatyr I am curious as to what your objection and the objection of your family to Vatican II were. You may help me get a better understanding of the matter.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/14/2014 8:45:36 PM

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I already pointed you to Pope St. Pius V.

The Catholic Church insists that a pope cannot err in matters in faith and morals. What they fail to repeat as often, these days, is the end of that (" ... unless he preaches heresy.")

If you read St Pius V, you will see that either Pius V or John XXIII was in error, which the church says is impossible.

So, since Pius V was first, what John XXIII put forth in Vatican II was null and void.

I forget the exact wording but part of what John XXIII wrote was that the Catholic Church had to be more like the Protestant churches. Any good Catholic would say: "Why? If I wanted to be a Protestant, I would just go to their church."

I encourage you to read Pius V.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

DaddySatyr I am curious as to what your objection and the objection of your family to Vatican II were. You may help me get a better understanding of the matter.

ETA: Pius V, while writing Ex Cathreda said something very close to: "This is the mass, as given to me by the Holy Ghost, if you change it, in any way, you invoke the wrath of Almighty God."

It's one of the reasons the prayers at the foot of the altar for the conversion of Russia (which were added some time around the 1920s) always occurred well after: "Ite. Missa es."

Screen captures still RULE! ya feel me?

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 4/14/2014 8:53:57 PM >

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/14/2014 8:45:57 PM

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Accusations that the Church/God is evil suffers from a fatal flaw in that the world is evil. It has the hardness of stone. Stone is hard. Stone is not loving. Stone is more than happy to break your bones if you should fall on one. This is the world and it is not fully possible to escape this. So one ends up having to chose between an evil and a lesser evil, but such acknowledgements are dangerous in that human judgement is usually flawed. It is easy to make grave mistakes.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/14/2014 9:10:29 PM

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What I wrote above was posted before I noticed what you wrote DaddySatyr and so it was not intended to be in response to it per se.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

I already pointed you to Pope St. Pius V.

The Catholic Church insists that a pope cannot err in matters in faith and morals. What they fail to repeat as often, these days, is the end of that (" ... unless he preaches heresy.")

If you read St Pius V, you will see that either Pius V or John XXIII was in error, which the church says is impossible.

So, since Pius V was first, what John XXIII put forth in Vatican II was null and void.

I forget the exact wording but part of what John XXIII wrote was that the Catholic Church had to be more like the Protestant churches. Any good Catholic would say: "Why? If I wanted to be a Protestant, I would just go to their church."

I encourage you to read Pius V.

What I can share with you is my take on Papal Infallibility. I will look further into what you prescribed in order to better comment on it. Recall what I wrote earlier on orthodoxy. The problem with orthodoxy is that it is not entirely objective though it strives to be as objective as humanly possible. Opinion does figure in the equation and whose opinion is that? It certainly is not our opinion. It is one of those problems. It is like American citizen saying to themselves that the people have the right to revolt in the event the government ceases to be a government of the people. It is romantic, but it can get you into trouble for good cause. It is not up to us to say what is or is not heresy just like it is not up to us to say what is or is not lawful. So as a practical matter you pretty much have to go along with it.

It is something to be aware of. Is it possible that there is a demonic disorientation within the Church? Yes, but the same can be said of our own lives. We have to work with what we have and God gave us the Church with all of its imperfections.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/14/2014 9:50:53 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Is it possible that there is a demonic disorientation within the Church?

I goofed as phraseology is concerned. It is diabolical disorientation. So the above sentence should have went: Is it possible that there is a diabolical disorientation within the Church?

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 11:23:03 AM

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Personally, I like the Tridentine Mass. I would go so far to say I prefer it.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 11:31:52 AM

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St. Pius V's words are quite clear. If the Catholic church were to follow it's own dogma and canon law, John XXIII was a heretic. Plain and simple.

Also, following canon law, once a pope preaches heresy, he ceases to be a pope and any decisions, proclamations, papal bulls, etc. are null and void.

I can't give you a path to follow to find these things out, personally where you may live but I know that the Society of St. Pius V (SSPV) has a website where they share some information.

Deus macum est,

Michael

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 11:59:15 AM

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Whether or not Vatican II was legitimate the Protestants strategically as I pointed out have no choice in the matter if their end of the world comes later than sooner. The Protestants are hoping they won't have to make the decision to return to the Church because God will intervene and save them from having to take responsibility.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 12:04:50 PM

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It is not up to you or me to say what is or is not a heresy. I am sympathetic, but that is about as far as it goes.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 12:09:29 PM

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DaddySatyr if you wish to pray for the Pope you are certainly free to do so.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 12:10:36 PM

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I didn't say it was heresy. The Catholic church/St. Pius V said it was. The fact that the Vatican, in its un-bridled need to acquire more "power", neglected their own rules doesn't mean that the rules don't exist.

It's really simple:

Catholic Dogma says: "A pope can not err in matters of faith and morals unless he preaches heresy."

Pius V says: "This is what God told me the Mass is to be, in perpetuity."

John XXIII says: "Pius V was wrong. This is the 'new' Mass."

Sorry. That turd won't flush.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

It is not up to you or me to say what is or is not a heresy. I am sympathetic, but that is about as far as it goes.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to BenevolentM)

RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 12:15:28 PM

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You evidently don't get it. You do not have sufficient standing with respect to Canon law to make such an assessment.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 12:15:44 PM

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I'm free to do a lot of things; including no longer being a Catholic.

I pray for all people (very generally) and some people specifically.

The "pope" isn't even on my radar.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

DaddySatyr if you wish to pray for the Pope you are certainly free to do so.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to BenevolentM)

RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 12:37:39 PM

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What you wrote suggests that you are an anarchist. Complete opposition to the rule of law is ungodly.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 12:40:05 PM

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I am NOT an anarchist. Growing up, I was encouraged to study canon law and doctors of the church. It's right there in black-and-white, for all to see.

Either you're misunderstanding me or you're being insulting. Either way, we're done, "sir".

quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

What you wrote suggests that you are an anarchist. Complete opposition to the rule of law is ungodly.

Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?

_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to BenevolentM)

RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 12:58:33 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Growing up, I was encouraged to study canon law and doctors of the church.

In that case you may have something useful to contribute. Some remnant of your former self no doubt remains. Though I suppose it is possible that you have forgotten all of it.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 1:27:14 PM

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I recall the conceited remarks made by GotSteel about how atheists know more about Christianity than Christians. Spoken sarcastically, yes, you have excellent teachers. People like DaddySatyr to inform you about what Catholicism is all about and how it works. Add that to how you cherry pick your data.

(in reply to BenevolentM)

RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 1:32:22 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BenevolentM

Add that to how you cherry pick your data.

You learn from the fallen ones. Your approach is not going to give you unbiased data.

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RE: What good is morality anyway? - 4/15/2014 1:51:41 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

Either you're misunderstanding me or you're being insulting. Either way, we're done, "sir".

BM is always deliberately obtuse unless you explicitly follow "his" brand of faith.
And, he also deliberately fails to notice that he insults and offends almost everyone else with his diatribe.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

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