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RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 6:57:28 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

Peon, you're such a cock block.


Even after looking that up, I can get no sense out of it.

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Profile   Post #: 61
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 7:08:06 PM   
UnholyBear


Posts: 661
Joined: 10/19/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

I really don't understand the idea that communicating online is a skill that's completely different from communicating in the real world. It really isn't.



Well the major difference is that online communication does not carry with it the automatic feedback of, if you are being a dick, that you don't get punched in the face for it. So, the online difference is that people tend to act differently because that punch will not land on them. If, however, someone comes here and acts as you described and actually tries to fit in and acts like they are in real life, the communication goes better and people are more receptive to it.

quote:

This is the real issue. It's not with old posters hazing new ones. It's not with some secret skill to expressing yourself on a forum. The rules of the real world still apply here: You introduce yourself, you state what you're looking for, and you contribute to conversations in a civil manner (unless you're in P&R, then all bets are off.) You don't go running in the room screaming what you want and expecting members of your target demographic to jump all over you.


Yep. I raised my children, I don't have enough patience to raise adults.

Good post Rocka. Take a pat on the back out of petty cash.



Very well stated Gauge.

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Profile   Post #: 62
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 8:26:51 PM   
RedMagic1


Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla
The rules of the real world still apply here: You introduce yourself, you state what you're looking for, and you contribute to conversations in a civil manner (unless you're in P&R, then all bets are off.) You don't go running in the room screaming what you want and expecting members of your target demographic to jump all over you. Even if hordes of angry women jumping on you happens to be your fetish. ESPECIALLY if that happens to be your fetish.

That's a simplistic understanding, sadly. There are lots and lots of people who have suppressed their kink for many years, and when they finally are able to communicate about it, it's like a monster possessing them. Similar to kids moving out of the house for the first time, or when someone suddenly gets promiscuous after leaving a bad relationship.

I think new OPs are often assholes because they have no idea how to communicate about overpowering sexual feelings. That's part of the reason I usually try to respond to assholery with dry facts -- to demonstrate that it's possible to analyze these things outside of oneself, so there's no need for them to have such power over you.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 9:24:59 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Well the major difference is that online communication does not carry with it the automatic feedback of, if you are being a dick, that you don't get punched in the face for it. So, the online difference is that people tend to act differently because that punch will not land on them


Gauge this is why I like debating online rather than in person. Not that i am afraid of being punched but because people are more honest in their feelings and show their true character. If i were to get to know someone casually in person it would take a significant time to see their real persona. Online you get the measure of a person in just a few posts... and it seems to me to be a lot more accurate.

In fact I think you learn more about a new poster in a few threads then perhaps a lifetime of casual friendship. I hate to say it but the challenges of chat rooms and how the person handles themselves in adversity may be the only way to really know someone quickly... So i do not worry too much about the so called hazing of newbies.

Butch

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 9:40:25 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

So just in case somebody hasn't heard my spiel by now I'm often horrified by the way new posters are treated around here. Upon stating this in the past I've received the response that usually the new poster does something to instigate the responses and I think that's true.

Sometimes it's the case that the poster has an uncommon kink that doesn't fit in around here, but should we really be throwing rocks over that, seems to me an awful lot like we're living in a glass house on this one.

Sometimes the poster stumbles onto a hotbutton topic, but really how can we reasonably expect someone new to know where all the mines are buried?

Sometimes it's that the poster makes some spelling mistakes or doesn't express themselves well. Thing is expressing oneself on a forum is a skill and we're talking about posters who are new. It's a very rare person who's perfect at well just about anything their first time.

Don't get me wrong, there are work arounds to these problems: learning to post elsewhere/a substantial amount of lurking. But isn't that setting an awfully high bar to be allowed to post here without getting heckled off the site?

I mean we're basically asking new posters to hit the ground running in the middle of a mine field, is it at all surprising that has a tendency of not working out very well!

About this time in my argument someone's apt to make a comment about this is just how it is. Thing is that's not actually true, I can point to examples both in meat space and on fet of communities who are night and day different, think about it for a second, can't all of you do the same?



This is a discussion group on a public forum that is available to anyone who wants to join. Some people here want to have discussions; some just want to attack; some are killing time; some are pontificating and want to lord over people with their self-assumed superiority -- no different than most other public Internet forums.

You can't police the Internet. You can't force people to be civil. You can't make people have discussions in the way you want them to discuss things -- they'll do what they want.

Most people will simply react to the content of the message. They don't care if the poster is brand new here or has posted a million times before.

That's life; that's the Internet.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 10:10:59 PM   
seekingreality


Posts: 599
Joined: 8/11/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MissKittyDeVine

IMO the OP on the other thread was asking a valid question. Why indeed do so many people set themselves up for failure by messaging someone for whom they clearly do not fulfil essential criteria?


Same reason people apply for jobs for which they are lacking essential criteria -- doesn't cost them anything to try, and they hope something about them sparks the other person's interest enough that they overlook their missing the ostensibly "essential" criteria. And on rare occasion it might work. So if you are just sending a canned response to everyone, why not?

(in reply to MissKittyDeVine)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 10:46:42 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I mean I'll present evidence and try to reason with people as long as I find the conversation meaningful. But if things are starting to irritate me, why stick around for that?



Why stick around to have a discussion about the point you brought up? Gee... let me think that one over for a minute...

I posed questions to you and you have dodged them not once, but twice now. Others have asked questions to you directly or have asked questions relative to your point and you haven't answered them either. If you have no solutions to your perceived problem, then what was the point of posting this at all? If you have solutions, or suggestions, then let's hear them. Who knows... maybe I can be persuaded? Unless I hear the entirety of your point, including your responses, how the hell do you expect anyone to get anywhere? No, you threw the gauntlet down, if you don't have the stomach for the fight, why did you pick it in the first place?


< Message edited by Gauge -- 12/4/2014 11:35:31 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 10:49:51 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

No, you threw the gauntlet down, if you don't have the stomach for the fight, why did you pick it in the first place?



Suddenly, I'm seeing the "Black Knight" scene from Monty Python & The Holy Grail and hearing John Cleese's voice saying: "Come back here! I'll bite your kneecaps off!"



Michael





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Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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Profile   Post #: 68
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 10:53:39 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1

That's a simplistic understanding, sadly. There are lots and lots of people who have suppressed their kink for many years, and when they finally are able to communicate about it, it's like a monster possessing them. Similar to kids moving out of the house for the first time, or when someone suddenly gets promiscuous after leaving a bad relationship.

I think new OPs are often assholes because they have no idea how to communicate about overpowering sexual feelings. That's part of the reason I usually try to respond to assholery with dry facts -- to demonstrate that it's possible to analyze these things outside of oneself, so there's no need for them to have such power over you.


Perhaps the new folks are overwhelmed, and most of that is met with a mixed bag of responses, some good, some tending toward snark. Not defending that, just stating it. It is understandable to a degree for the newly discovered kinkster to want everyone to listen and enjoy and agree with what they like. That, however, is not reality and that is why the mixed bag of responses happens. It all depends on how reasonable the OP is and whether or not they listen and at least try to understand, or whether or not they want to give in to the dick side of things.

Some people come here swinging a baseball bat and are shocked when people don't like that. It happens. Those that try are the ones the community works best with, and that is the general rule of most forums on the Internet.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 11:01:50 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Gauge this is why I like debating online rather than in person. Not that i am afraid of being punched but because people are more honest in their feelings and show their true character. If i were to get to know someone casually in person it would take a significant time to see their real persona. Online you get the measure of a person in just a few posts... and it seems to me to be a lot more accurate.

In fact I think you learn more about a new poster in a few threads then perhaps a lifetime of casual friendship. I hate to say it but the challenges of chat rooms and how the person handles themselves in adversity may be the only way to really know someone quickly... So i do not worry too much about the so called hazing of newbies.

Butch


Butch, I like it too. I am one of those rare folks who is exactly like I am online, I am an open book. I have my good points and bad ones and I am always willing to admit when I am wrong.

What you say is quite true, I remember reading online somewhere in a dark corner of the Internet, a thread where someone stated that they had wanted to kill themselves. I was both moved and horrified at the responses that were posted. The overwhelming amount of posts were encouraging the person to get some help and to try to do something, but there was a very vocal minority who called the person every name they could, told them they were worthless and that they would be better off dead. In that thread, I saw the good and bad in people, and I was thankful that the majority of people were trying to help, but it also occurred to me that what I was seeing was truth. Truth of who these people were. Some were kind, even though they had no understanding of how to help, others were extremely helpful, while others weren't worth the powder it would take to blow them off the face of the planet. In short order you can tell the character of most, especially when facing some adversity.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 11:02:57 PM   
domincalifornia


Posts: 88
Joined: 6/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

I mean I'll present evidence and try to reason with people as long as I find the conversation meaningful. But if things are starting to irritate me, why stick around for that?



Why stick around to have a discussion about the point you brought up? Gee... let me think that one over for a minute...

I posed questions to you and you have dodged them not once, but twice now. Others have asked you questions to you directly or have asked questions relative to your point and you haven't answered them either. If you have no solutions to your perceived problem, then what was the point of posting this at all? If you have solutions, or suggestions, then let's hear them. Who knows... maybe I can be persuaded? Unless I hear the entirety of your point, including your responses, how the hell do you expect anyone to get anywhere? No, you threw the gauntlet down, if you don't have the stomach for the fight, why did you pick it in the first place?



Just because someone starts a thread doesn't mean they are obligated to respond to everyone who writes a comment to them. They can step out anytime they want, and stop talking to anyone anytime they want.

My feeling is if you perceive someone is continually dodging questions and you don't enjoy engaging them in discussion, then it's on you to simply not bother to talk to them.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 11:04:10 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingreality

This is a discussion group on a public forum that is available to anyone who wants to join. Some people here want to have discussions; some just want to attack; some are killing time; some are pontificating and want to lord over people with their self-assumed superiority -- no different than most other public Internet forums.

You can't police the Internet. You can't force people to be civil. You can't make people have discussions in the way you want them to discuss things -- they'll do what they want.

Most people will simply react to the content of the message. They don't care if the poster is brand new here or has posted a million times before.

That's life; that's the Internet.


That is true.

This community is more patient and understanding than some sites I have seen. Some of these folks wouldn't have a fucking prayer were they to post elsewhere like that.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to seekingreality)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 11:11:36 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Touche, you still owe me nudes. Kidding! This is how rumors start.



You couldn't handle nudes. I'm not certain I could either.

quote:

We all know some people simply don't mesh well and sometimes they need to hear a real objective opinion, not just "dump him, he hates you" or "she sounds selfish". We can't go on the first tangent relative to our experience. We have to consider what they are trying to say as unbiasedly as possible. For some this is hard.


Yes, those responses without enough information are cringe-worthy for me too. I try to be unbiased and offer whatever advice I can, I am not always successful, but that is my failing and no one else's.

Most people cannot offer advice for something they are not experienced in, although that does not prevent them from opening their mouth. I try to stay away from threads where I feel I have nothing to contribute, it keeps me from trying to use my mouth as a slipper. I try to use the adage, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to GoddessManko)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 11:12:57 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


Suddenly, I'm seeing the "Black Knight" scene from Monty Python & The Holy Grail and hearing John Cleese's voice saying: "Come back here! I'll bite your kneecaps off!"



Michael



Sounds like a movie for movie night.


_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 11:18:30 PM   
sexyred1


Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
Status: offline 		And you are incredibly patient with this never ending topic.

I will say the only thing I disagree with is that you can know all about a person from their posting style.

I have spoken on the phone to people from here and they were very different than their online personas.

You just need to be a good writer to be anyone you want.

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 11:23:51 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domincalifornia

Just because someone starts a thread doesn't mean they are obligated to respond to everyone who writes a comment to them. They can step out anytime they want, and stop talking to anyone anytime they want.



Thanks for clearing that up for me. Of course that is the case, but for this thread in particular, where someone is taking a pot shot (and not their first one) at the community, perhaps sticking around would be a great idea so you can be heard.

What precipitated this thread was a comment by the OP to the community that we ran off yet another new poster. I could link back to it, but all you have to do is search post history to find it.

It is a pretty lofty indictment of the community as a whole to be told that we are intolerant of new people when the reality is that this community does pretty well overall. Do we have faults? Sure, but I do not see them as glaring ones, I see them as normal. New people pop up all the time, post once, shit stir and vanish... this says to me that they were never going to stick around in the first place. Others might shit stir and post a few times and get folks good and riled up, and vanish, not because they were treated poorly, but because I believe it is an outside effort to stir the community up, though not always. That last statement is not paranoia, we have had it happen more than once.

quote:

My feeling is if you perceive someone is continually dodging questions and you don't enjoy engaging them in discussion, then it's on you to simply not bother to talk to them.


There is a very short list of people that I do not bother engaging on this forum. However, I refuse to allow someone to spit in my oatmeal and I just take it without saying a word.

If the OP wants to blast the community, then let's hear it. Fire away... this was why this thread was started, at least that is why I thought it was started.


< Message edited by Gauge -- 12/4/2014 11:40:58 PM >

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to domincalifornia)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: hazing new posters - 12/4/2014 11:28:28 PM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

And you are incredibly patient with this never ending topic.

I will say the only thing I disagree with is that you can know all about a person from their posting style.

I have spoken on the phone to people from here and they were very different than their online personas.

You just need to be a good writer to be anyone you want.


Of course the hard and fast rule will be that people can be different in person than their online persona. Some here have admittedly said that here they are timid, but get them face to face and they will chew your ear off with chatter. You can, however, get a general feel for a person, you can never know all about them, not ever... even face to face. Hell, you can't tell everything about me from here, but I will tell you that I am not much different than I am on here, perhaps a lot more humorous, but that is about it. I'll give you my number as long as you slip me some hawt nudes in email... and you can judge for yourself. Just kidding... kind of...

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to sexyred1)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: hazing new posters - 12/5/2014 5:13:14 AM   
GotSteel


Posts: 5871
Joined: 2/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
GotSteel- at one point you said that sometimes mods jump in and shut everyone up on other forums you have been on.

Actually I pointed to a thread where a single poster got moderated at the initial snark phase which kept things from escalating due to instigation the way they do here sometimes.


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
I'm used to a less moderated forums than this one (this one is truly the most modded one I'm on...), I'm kinda curious when and where you think that line is for a moderator? Is it the moderators job to shape the community to what you envision? and why?

Mod3 should also chime in, if allowed...

In the best forums (and the worst forums) that I've been to it has been the case that the moderators were part of the community. It's certainly the case that mods have a disproportional amount of power to shape the community compared to the rest of us. That said the rest of us are not powerless, we are the community.

You were talking about "clique like behavior", that clique can be about being open and positive, on the other hand we can decide to be exclusive and bully anyone different off.

(in reply to shiftyw)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: hazing new posters - 12/5/2014 9:44:24 AM   
HeartAndSoul31


Posts: 148
Status: offline 		Can I be mean today and haze old posters?

(in reply to GotSteel)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: hazing new posters - 12/5/2014 9:59:51 AM   
GoddessManko


Posts: 2257
Joined: 3/6/2013
From: Dante's Inferno
Status: offline
quote:


Even after looking that up, I can get no sense out of it.

www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cock+block
Urban Dictionary
cock block. One who prevents another from scoring sexually. (with M3 even though it's still a pie in the sky dream.)
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMagic1
That's a simplistic understanding, sadly. There are lots and lots of people who have suppressed their kink for many years, and when they finally are able to communicate about it, it's like a monster possessing them. Similar to kids moving out of the house for the first time, or when someone suddenly gets promiscuous after leaving a bad relationship.

I think new OPs are often assholes because they have no idea how to communicate about overpowering sexual feelings. That's part of the reason I usually try to respond to assholery with dry facts -- to demonstrate that it's possible to analyze these things outside of oneself, so there's no need for them to have such power over you.

With this logic, you were once and asshole but now you're sanctified! Praise bejeebus!


quote:

Can I be mean today and haze old posters?

Can I join you? I got some glue, a paper clip and a Weird Al Yankovich album.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to RedMagic1)
Profile   Post #: 80
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