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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 9:39:25 AM

BamaD

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From Aibo

'The prophet have been avenged' they left yelling when they fled

From me

Is this documented, it would seem to faintly imply that possibly the attackers might have some inclination toward Islamic extremism.

Of course a fair minded person would wait for proof that this wasn't the tea party trying to frame Jihadists.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 1/7/2015 9:41:12 AM >

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 9:43:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I just read about the hard time Cartoonists have in Turkey -- and in general about the censorship worries of authors around the world.

Islamic Extremists hate free speech.

This will probably accelerate the anti-immigration waves sweeping over Europe.

There are lots of groups who hate free speech. Up to now there is nothing that identifies these guys as muslim apart from what they yelled as they left. That simply isn't enough proof for me.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 9:44:53 AM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

Savage, cowardly and despicable yes. But we don't know for sure they are extremist "muslims", they are masked with no identifiable features. While they may be extremists it could also be the work of people looking to make muslims look bad and fan the flames of hatred. Only time will tell when they are caught.

Just a coincidence that the newspaper that got shot up practiced free speech, and published cartoons critical of Islam then

As if extremists are the only ones who want to quash free speech. There is just as much of a chance that this is the work of people looking to fan hatred of muslims as it is extremists themselves. If it is the first group I mention, they are counting on gut reaction rather than people sitting back and thinking before reacting. Looks like it's working. This isn't a liberal vs conservative thing by the way, I'll bet there are some conservatives smart enough to wait til there's more info.

The fact that they want to quash free speech makes them extremists, regardless of their affiliation.

True but there is nothing to show that they are affilited with muslim extremists.

Does the phrase "regardless of their affiliation" mean anything to you?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 9:47:02 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

True but there is nothing to show that they are affilited with muslim extremists.

Except for Muslim extremists claiming responsibility, all of the available eyewitness accounts, news accounts and video...

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 9:49:33 AM

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

From Aibo

'The prophet have been avenged' they left yelling when they fled

From me

Is this documented, it would seem to faintly imply that possibly the attackers might have some inclination toward Islamic extremism.

Of course a fair minded person would wait for proof that this wasn't the tea party trying to frame Jihadists.

Didnt you know or havent you heard

People who despise Islamic extremists love nothing more than to perfectly emulate them

Everybody knows that

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 9:56:29 AM

ThirdWheelWanted

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I just read about the hard time Cartoonists have in Turkey -- and in general about the censorship worries of authors around the world.

Islamic Extremists hate free speech.

This will probably accelerate the anti-immigration waves sweeping over Europe.

Up to now there is nothing that identifies these guys as muslim apart from what they yelled as they left. That simply isn't enough proof for me.

What they yelled as they left. What they were yelling before and during. That an extremist group has claimed responsibility. That the paper has received threats from extremists in the past. That the editor has been living with police protection. But sure, I guess those hoof-prints could be zebras rather then horses.

(in reply to LiveSpark)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 10:04:50 AM

kdsub

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lol... Now what difference does it make if it is Muslim terrorists or someone, personally I can not imagine who would kill 12 people just to make Muslims look bad, trying to discredit Muslims? It is still caused one way or another by Muslim radicalism or a perverted reaction to Muslim radicalism.

Butch

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 10:10:56 AM

kdsub

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Just me... but I cannot understand people that for the sake of hate or entertainment and circulation of their product will purposely enrage a group of people. Of course they did not deserve to die for their improprieties but there is a good chance they may have gotten totally innocents killed and must assume some of the blame in this tragedy.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 10:22:06 AM

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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just me... but I cannot understand people that for the sake of hate or entertainment and circulation of their product will purposely enrage a group of people. Of course they did not deserve to die for their improprieties but there is a good chance they may have gotten totally innocents killed and must assume some of the blame in this tragedy.

Butch

Reading your words I imagined a drunk Mohammad in a filthy, bloody, wife beater shirt screaming, now see what you made me did

(She wouldnt have been dressed that way if she didnt want it)

< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/7/2015 10:26:47 AM >

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 10:29:59 AM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Just me... but I cannot understand people that for the sake of hate or entertainment and circulation of their product will purposely enrage a group of people. Of course they did not deserve to die for their improprieties but there is a good chance they may have gotten totally innocents killed and must assume some of the blame in this tragedy.

Butch

I always thought that the correct response was to not buy their publication.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:03:59 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

Savage, cowardly and despicable yes. But we don't know for sure they are extremist "muslims", they are masked with no identifiable features. While they may be extremists it could also be the work of people looking to make muslims look bad and fan the flames of hatred. Only time will tell when they are caught.

Just a coincidence that the newspaper that got shot up practiced free speech, and published cartoons critical of Islam then

As if extremists are the only ones who want to quash free speech. There is just as much of a chance that this is the work of people looking to fan hatred of muslims as it is extremists themselves. If it is the first group I mention, they are counting on gut reaction rather than people sitting back and thinking before reacting. Looks like it's working. This isn't a liberal vs conservative thing by the way, I'll bet there are some conservatives smart enough to wait til there's more info.

Just as much of a chance? Bullshit.

"I am not afraid of retaliation. I have no kids, no wife, no car, no credit. It perhaps sounds a bit pompous, but I prefer to die standing than living on my knees."
--Charb, one of the cartoonists killed today

How would the cartoonists want to be remembered? If it was me, I would want my work to outlive every one of those masked cowards.

For Charlie Hebdo...

Mohammad and his concubine reading the morning paper.

Ummm that says something about one of the guys who was murdered. It tells us nothing about the guys who murdered him....but rock on. The bit at the bottom of the post says quite a lot about you though, you strike me as exactly the kind of person someone looking to get people inflamed towards muslims would be aiming towards. Again, looks like it worked.

Just to be clear, I didn't offer the quote as evidence of who murdered him. I just wanted to give my respect to a man who chose death over censorship. I can see how it looked like a rebuttal, and for that I apologize. But I sure as fuck will NEVER apologize for getting inflamed over someone getting killed for a goddamn drawing. So what if I made my little Mohammad drawing before all the facts are in? Who the fuck cares? It's a drawing, not a call to arms.

(in reply to LiveSpark)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:09:17 AM

kdsub

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quote:

I always thought that the correct response was to not buy their publication.

Yes among civilized people...but reality says otherwise and they should have known they were playing with fire. Remember their representation of Islam deities was an insult to millions of Muslims for no good reasons other than to poke a stick at an enraged animal.

This served no purpose... why insult good peaceful people just to say you have the right to do it... knowing the history of the radical element in Islam would put innocents in danger?

I am not defending in any way the animals that killed these people but if my daughter was a secretary or a passerby and was killed i would be furious at BOTH the killers and the assholes that provoked it...how about you?

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/7/2015 11:12:26 AM >

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:12:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

This served no purpose... why insult good peaceful people just to say you have the right to do it... knowing the history of the radical element in Islam and put innocents in danger?

Butch

You're asking this question on a forum where Christians and Christianity are assaulted, on a regular basis?

Michael

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:14:55 AM

kdsub

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I would hope that we, as i am a Christian, are better than Islamic terrorists... but of course I know there are fanatics in all religions.

Butch

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Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DaddySatyr)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:24:53 AM

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Freedom of religion and freedom of speech is often attempted to be denied here by many posters and for many reasons. Mostly hypocritically.
I doubt any regular poster here on the left or the right, atheist or christian or muslim or jew will not decry this horrible shitty cowardly murder of the people at Charlie Hebdo (cops included)
But that hasnt stopped some of our posters claiming otherwise.
quelle surprise.

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(in reply to kdsub)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:30:00 AM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I always thought that the correct response was to not buy their publication.

Yes among civilized people...but reality says otherwise and they should have known they were playing with fire. Remember their representation of Islam deities was an insult to millions of Muslims for no good reasons other than to poke a stick at an enraged animal.

This served no purpose... why insult good peaceful people just to say you have the right to do it... knowing the history of the radical element in Islam would put innocents in danger?

I am not defending in any way the animals that killed these people but if my daughter was a secretary or a passerby and was killed i would be furious at BOTH the killers and the assholes that provoked it...how about you?

Butch

Apparently they weren't that peaceful. If anything this attack supports the validity of what they were publishing.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:35:05 AM

Aibo

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I rather applaud hot4bondage here, because he did trigger just the kind of brainless reaction that is at the bottom of the problem here.
Free speech and a society where we are allowed to speak our mind is at the core of everything here, and you who are sexual deviates should be the first to understand why it is so incredibly important to defend that.

This include the right for any Islamist to have his view, to discuss it with his friends, regardless of how extreme it might be.
But nobody have the right to force their view on anybody else.
If anyone start to tamper with that, for any reason including a 'politically correct one' then the country or society have given up.
.....and I will never give up to violence or murder!

(in reply to Lucylastic)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:36:09 AM

Posts: 403
Joined: 7/29/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

I always thought that the correct response was to not buy their publication.

Yes among civilized people...but reality says otherwise and they should have known they were playing with fire. Remember their representation of Islam deities was an insult to millions of Muslims for no good reasons other than to poke a stick at an enraged animal.

This served no purpose... why insult good peaceful people just to say you have the right to do it... knowing the history of the radical element in Islam would put innocents in danger?

I am not defending in any way the animals that killed these people but if my daughter was a secretary or a passerby and was killed i would be furious at BOTH the killers and the assholes that provoked it...how about you?

Butch

My breakfast was an insult to millions of muslims.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:39:43 AM

kdsub

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Bama you will not find me among those that think just because millions of Muslims are peaceful this absolves them of all responsibility of these terrorists acts. I personally think Islam in general by its very nature and teachings breeds terrorism more so then other religions. But i will not blame the vast majority of Muslims for the specific acts of terrorists.

But what I believe, and will take the heat for, is my belief that peaceful Muslims do not do enough to stamp out radicals in their religion. Radicalism cannot exist on the scale it has manifested itself today without help, indifference and denial of responsibility by the leaders of the religion.

Butch

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 11:40:44 AM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aibo

I rather applaud hot4bondage here, because he did trigger just the kind of brainless reaction that is at the bottom of the problem here.
Free speech and a society where we are allowed to speak our mind is at the core of everything here, and you who are sexual deviates should be the first to understand why it is so incredibly important to defend that.

This include the right for any Islamist to have his view, to discuss it with his friends, regardless of how extreme it might be.
But nobody have the right to force their view on anybody else.
If anyone start to tamper with that, for any reason including a 'politically correct one' then the country or society have given up.
.....and I will never give up to violence or murder!

I don't believe I am disagreeing with you on this.
It is one thing to say we should do anything we need to to include everyone in Islam.
It is quite another to kill someone for saying that Islam has a faction of murderers and perverts.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Aibo)

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