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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 2:19:57 PM

Musicmystery

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 2:23:11 PM

ExiledTyrant

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I sit corrected.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 2:27:12 PM

eulero83

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

No leftist blame everything on the tea party your sarcasm detector may be malfunctioning.

never mind

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 2:39:45 PM

bounty44

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something from mark steyn that's a part of the conversation:

"Speaking on Toronto radio this morning, Mark Steyn noted (as he has for years) that belligerent Islam is aided and abetted by non-Muslim Western “leaders”:

"All the appeasing politicians, journalists, cops, human resources directors, professors, their students and the entire apparatus of the elite intelligentsia who make excuses for terrorism, and who scold us poor benighted proles to stop being “Islamophobic.”

"He told Toronto’s John Oakley:

"In my book, I print the lyrics to a parody song I do on stage called, “My Sharia Amour.”

"I took to doing that because I’d been dragged through the Human Rights Commissions and spent a day in a Vancouver courtroom listening to some so-called expert witness who’d been flown in from Philadelphia to do ‘literary analysis’ on my jokes about Islam.

"That has no place in a Canadian courtroom.

“In the end,” Steyn continued:

"Attempting to mediate relations between free people and Islam will not work. Islam either has to get on board with the whole freedom of speech thing or it cannot participate in pluralistic western democracies. It’s as simple as that.

"And the state authorities in Canada and the United Kingdom — some guy in Yorkshire was just arrested by police because he tossed a Koran in a toilet. (…)

"Universities are the most craven in our culture these days. (…) Pansified Western culture is obsessing over “microaggressions” but at the same time when some lunatic head-hackers open fire on you, you’ve just got to put up with it. That’s a recipe for the death of our civilization."

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2015/01/07/mark-steyn-on-charlie-hebdo-massacre-islam-not-the-only-villain/

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 2:42:14 PM

Musicmystery

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This part is certainly true:

quote:

but at the same time when some lunatic head-hackers open fire on you, you’ve just got to put up with it.

Viva the NRA

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 2:50:45 PM

cloudboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Political cartoonists that work for satirical magazines like this know that they put themselves in the firing line because they draw to offend. In a free world though, we have the right to offend and the right to be offended. What we don't have is the right to kill the people who have offended us.

Anyone working within the Charlie Hebdo offices were fully aware of the risks.

I can't think the they had any idea of this type of risk while living and working in Paris. To me, this is really crossing a line.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 3:27:04 PM

MariaB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Political cartoonists that work for satirical magazines like this know that they put themselves in the firing line because they draw to offend. In a free world though, we have the right to offend and the right to be offended. What we don't have is the right to kill the people who have offended us.

Anyone working within the Charlie Hebdo offices were fully aware of the risks.

I can't think the they had any idea of this type of risk while living and working in Paris. To me, this is really crossing a line.

My husband knows some of the journalists that works within those offices. Last summer he visited their building and said they had armed police on the door who scrutinized his papers before letting him in. You can't run a political piss take magazine without consequences or risk, every journalist and political cartoonist knows that. They have already been fire bombed and they have been getting death threats for some time now. At least two of the cartoonists had private body guards and everyone was aware that it was just a matter of time and opportunity before something else happened. I'm sure nobody imagined it could be anything as horrific as this and that whatever it was, that they hopefully had enough protection.

Personally I don't like Charlie Hebdo because in my mind it steps too near the mark, especially recently but like I said, I have the right to be offended and if I'm offended I won't continue to view the content that offends me. The beauty of living in the west is, we have the rights of choice.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 3:31:28 PM

Musicmystery

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Political cartoonists that work for satirical magazines like this know that they put themselves in the firing line because they draw to offend. In a free world though, we have the right to offend and the right to be offended. What we don't have is the right to kill the people who have offended us.

Anyone working within the Charlie Hebdo offices were fully aware of the risks.

I can't think the they had any idea of this type of risk while living and working in Paris. To me, this is really crossing a line.

Oh. So where is it more acceptable?

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 3:44:13 PM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Political cartoonists that work for satirical magazines like this know that they put themselves in the firing line because they draw to offend. In a free world though, we have the right to offend and the right to be offended. What we don't have is the right to kill the people who have offended us.

Anyone working within the Charlie Hebdo offices were fully aware of the risks.

I'm sorry, Maria but I am having some real issues with this post. I don't think I'm understanding, maybe?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

Political cartoonists that work for satirical magazines like this know that they put themselves in the firing line because they draw to offend.

In the firing line? Did you mean this, literally? That political cartoonists should be aware that their career choice includes bullets and machetes?

quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

In a free world though, we have the right to offend and the right to be offended. What we don't have is the right to kill the people who have offended us.

France is still the "free world". Right? This wasn't a bunch of political cartoonists, working in an office building with a view of Mecca?

This almost sounds as if you're "victim blaming"? "They knew the risks " Really? Do you think any of those people grew up, thinking: "Let's see ... military service or political cartoonist ..."

I canNOT subscribe to the theory that any kind of communication can be met with violence.

These people are a blight that should be obliterated. Ostracize them from every country in the world that doesn't (at least) turn a blind eye to Sharia law.

I will give you this: France has been a liberal cesspool of an attitude of: "Awwww! Those poor, misunderstood terrorists" for so long that this might be an instance of the chickens, coming home to roost. Even if it is that, we're talking about individuals, exercising a God-given right (Yes, the same God as "Allah") and paying for it with their lives?

Michael

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 4:06:19 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

The beauty of living in the west is, we have the rights of choice.

Until the Muslim population reaches a certain saturation point

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 4:11:22 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I can't think the they had any idea of this type of risk while living and working in Paris. To me, this is really crossing a line.

Oh. So where is it more acceptable?

For whatever reason, leftist boy thinks Paris should be a magical artsy area where practically anything goes, despite all of the Islamists who live there

cloudboy, meet reality

Reality, meet cloudboy

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 4:40:05 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Yes. I agree with you. There will be plenty of time to point fingers when those responsible are identified and caught.

It seems that the magazine targetted has been fire bombed in the past, and that French police were guarding some of the staff. Two police are among the dead, according to early reports.

Right

Whats important now, is that we minimize this as much as possible, and work to bury our heads in the sand a little further

Your head isnt burried in the sand, its stuck firmly up your arse.

This was clearly a terrorist attack carried out by people who had military training. I havent seen anyone trying to minimise it, just suggesting we wait until there is more info.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 4:41:29 PM

BamaD

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FR

NBC has reported, though I don't know if it has been confirmed, that one terrorist is dead, and the other other two have been captured.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 4:53:35 PM

PeonForHer

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quote:

cloudboy, meet reality

Reality, meet cloudboy

Speaking of which, it might be as well to stop and think for a bit about whether we have, in fact, grasped 'reality' when it comes to Islamist terrorism. See, one thesis has it that the purpose of such acts is to provoke a backlash against not just Islamists but all those claiming to represent the Muslim faith. This would radicalise (especially young) Muslims who've hitherto been moderate. Once radicalised, of course, they now have a 'home' to go, in ISIS. Either that, or they could be welcomed into the arms of Al Quaeda ....

Given that, yep, the terrorists and those on the extreme right who stand against them do have one, very crucial, aim in common: to get everyone else to see the world as they both do: as one mass population of 'right-thinking good people' against another mass population of 'wrong-thinking bad people'.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 4:54:52 PM

Lucylastic

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Per Salman Rushdie
Religion, a mediaeval form of unreason, when combined with modern weaponry becomes a real threat to our freedoms. This religious totalitarianism has caused a deadly mutation in the heart of Islam and we see the tragic consequences in Paris today. I stand with Charlie Hebdo, as we all must, to defend the art of satire, which has always been a force for liberty and against tyranny, dishonesty and stupidity. ‘Respect for religion’ has become a code phrase meaning ‘fear of religion.’ Religions, like all other ideas, deserve criticism, satire, and, yes, our fearless disrespect.

http://www.englishpen.org/campaigns/salman-rushdie-condemns-attack-on-charlie-hebdo/

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 5:04:46 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

Peon:

Given that, yep, the terrorists and those on the extreme right who stand against them do have one, very crucial, aim in common: to get everyone else to see the world as they both do: as one mass population of 'right-thinking good people' against another mass population of 'wrong-thinking bad people'.

QFT...... Kudos Peon

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 5:06:51 PM

Lucylastic

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Le Monde is citing police sources as saying the suspects are still at large.

Agree with peon too!

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 5:10:54 PM

LiveSpark

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

Peon:

Given that, yep, the terrorists and those on the extreme right who stand against them do have one, very crucial, aim in common: to get everyone else to see the world as they both do: as one mass population of 'right-thinking good people' against another mass population of 'wrong-thinking bad people'.

QFT...... Kudos Peon

I agree, beautifully put peon.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 5:26:56 PM

igor2003

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama you will not find me among those that think just because millions of Muslims are peaceful this absolves them of all responsibility of these terrorists acts. I personally think Islam in general by its very nature and teachings breeds terrorism more so then other religions. But i will not blame the vast majority of Muslims for the specific acts of terrorists.

But what I believe, and will take the heat for, is my belief that peaceful Muslims do not do enough to stamp out radicals in their religion. Radicalism cannot exist on the scale it has manifested itself today without help, indifference and denial of responsibility by the leaders of the religion.

Butch

I agree that if more peace loving Muslims would speak out against the radicals it would help to keep the terrorist attacks under some degree of control. But Muslims living in the Middle East, and those that have immigrated from there have lived for many years knowing, or at least believing, that if they speak out against the radicals their lives, and the lives of their families will quite likely be targeted. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that is why more of them don't speak out, and living with that kind of fear, I could understand their silence.

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RE: 12 dead in Paris - 1/7/2015 5:35:42 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

cloudboy, meet reality

Reality, meet cloudboy

Speaking of which, it might be as well to stop and think for a bit about whether we have, in fact, grasped 'reality' when it comes to Islamist terrorism. See, one thesis has it that the purpose of such acts is to provoke a backlash against not just Islamists but all those claiming to represent the Muslim faith. This would radicalise (especially young) Muslims who've hitherto been moderate. Once radicalised, of course, they now have a 'home' to go, in ISIS. Either that, or they could be welcomed into the arms of Al Quaeda ....

Given that, yep, the terrorists and those on the extreme right who stand against them do have one, very crucial, aim in common: to get everyone else to see the world as they both do: as one mass population of 'right-thinking good people' against another mass population of 'wrong-thinking bad people'.

That is right use a terrorist attack to slam people who oppose the terrorists, real class.
There is a slight difference between trying to convince everyone to agree with you and shooting them if they don't.
Can you honestly say you don't try to get "wrong thinking" people to see it your way.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 1/7/2015 5:43:07 PM >

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