RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy?

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RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 11:20:05 AM

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From: Dante's Inferno
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

So Manko, since you're fine with some random dude telling you that all men are superior to all women, are you going to bow down and give him that bj? And would you be fine with it if he told you that he's superior to you because he's white and you're black and therefore you need to spread your legs for any white who told you to?

Because I sure as hell wouldn't be. I don't do bigotry and when you claim all of one group is superior based on shit like sex or skin color, that's bigotry.

Forgive me, but I don't understand what you are proposing. For some reason I'm having a hard time piecing it together. It literally makes zero sense to me.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 11:25:49 AM

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Hmmm this thread has taken a creepy turn, LOL. I think it's an issue with emotional maturity and being able to discuss things like adults without hitting below the belt.

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http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to GoddessManko)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 11:31:32 AM

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To me, consentual male supremacy, like I already said, means a belief you are superior to everyone else of the opposite sex.

Meaning that just because one person agrees with you, there is a mess of people you feel superior to who have not.

Consenting to traditional male led relationship is not a belief in male supremacy- it means he leads you, not that he leads the whole world.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 11:33:25 AM

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From: Dante's Inferno
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I love how some people are just fine with it being proposed I start giving strangers blowjobs merely because of my position on this thread. Telling of personal character and duly noted. Sorry to disappoint but I don't suck dick,I leave that to other people who do. And I have had many powerful people all in one room subbing for me. Do I care if you believe me? Not really. And I don't make it my business to tell other people what kinks are or are not OK, unlike some of you, which is really hilarious. It is the same as vanilla people slut shaming, and I find some of you grossly hypocritical.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 3/8/2015 11:36:24 AM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 11:38:06 AM

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I think, and I like you, but frankly, you are having a hard time understanding supremacy.

Supremacy by definition almost always causes oppression. If you believe in female supremacy you are negating my feelings as a female sub who finds male submissives a turn off. That is what my issue is.

(in reply to GoddessManko)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 11:40:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

I love how some people are just fine with it being proposed I start giving strangers blowjobs merely because of my position on this thread. Telling of personal character and duly noted. Sorry to disappoint but I don't suck dick,I leave that to other people who do. And I have had many powerful people all in one room subbing for me. Do I care if you believe me? Not really. And I don't make it my business to tell other people what kinks are or are not OK, unlike some of you, which is really hilarious. It is the same as vanilla people slut shaming, and I find some of you grossly hypocritical.

And on this note, it is appearing that this conversation will quickly degrade into something that is leaving me too uncomfortable and thus there is no place for me to continue to participate.

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(in reply to GoddessManko)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 11:43:33 AM

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I may be going out on a limb, here (but I've heard branches, creaking under my weight, before), but I would be willing to bet that at least one of my ladies finds me to be superior to her in certain things. That's a personal thing. Knowing her, as I do, I think there's also some element of male supremacy going on with her. I don't think it's blatant or absolute, but I think, if she absolutely had to answer, she would say something akin to: "Men are supposed to be" the "boss". That would seem to imply that men are, by-and-large, superior, I guess.

I know that, when I offer to help her with the laundry, her response is always along the lines of: "You have more important things to do." That always leaves me, scratching my head (although, it is appreciated on Saturdays, between August and and November {and a couple of days in January}). I honestly don't see what's so important about screwing around with my music or trying to update my website or whatever. I have, however, come to believe that that is how she honestly feels. I can only take a guess that it might be something to do with no matter what I choose to do, she views it as being more important than whatever time-waster in which she might like to engage?

I do know that I don't believe that either gender is inherently superior to the other. I guess that could go back to my belief that a submissive should make their lives all about their dominant as long as their dominant realizes that life isn't all about him; he'll make the right choices for both of them.

Michael

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RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 11:49:52 AM

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At the potential risk of attracting social flak, yes, I believe in male supremacy (though I am not convinced if thats the right term for it) in some form. allow me to explain using your questions.

How exactly do you perceive male supremacy? Why do you like it?

Excellent question. The modern social perspective is that of equality of genders. I personally believe (and I can cite studies that back me up) that males and females are not biologically, physically, emotionally equal. Does that mean I do not support equality? No. I believe in equality of rights, opportunity and choice. But fundamentally, males and females are very different. We think, perceive and act in very different ways. On an average, for example, women are more sensitive, emotionally stronger (yes I admit it, despite my starting comment), better caregivers and socially more adept than men. Men, on an average, are better problem solvers, more focused and driven, and better providers than women. I know I have said a few things that will already raise some eyebrows. But note that I say "on an average". I completely agree it is possible for you to point out room-fulls of people where the reverse is true.

How does the topic of male supremacy (again, I cringe at the term) come into this? I believe that men have the stronger capacity of being better providers, protectors and shelters for others (women and children specially). I have often highlighted that a good dominant is chivalrous. He offers his seat to a woman, he goes the extra mile to ensure her happiness and comfort, he makes sacrifices to protect and provide for his family. That is not to say women dont do that, I am only saying that I feel men are probably better disposed to do so and produce, "on an average", more results doing so.

I like the notion of male supremacy in the context that I have described above because it presses home a very important principle - that supremacy, dominance, power or whatever you choose to call it - comes with a lot of responsibility. A superior human being is one who can shoulder that responsibility, make a better man out of himself and inspire others to do good. Male supremacy, to me, is sexy because it makes a man responsible for his actions, how he treats others and puts him at the forefront of caring for those that depend on him.

How are your relationships structured to accommodate this? What reactions have you had from people regarding this?

Lets say that I have not been well received in general society for my viewpoints. I understand where people are coming from. It is definitely not easy to hand over control of your life and decisions to a man and hope that he will have your best interests in heart when he makes choices for you. Numerous times it has, and no doubt will continue, to go wrong, and people will end up with broken expectations, broken hurts and broken trusts. Which brings us to the key point.

Supremacy is not bought for a cheap price. It is a token of a profound amount of trust and faith in someone's ability to lead and put others before themselves despite being a higher authority. This comes with time, with patience, and with proven action, not just words of solace. A man who has earned his way to such a position of trust is not merely someone who is sexually supreme. He is someone who elicits respect from all around him. Which brings me back to my core tenet - supremacy is sexy because if properly practised, it brings out the best in us.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 12:00:42 PM

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From: Dante's Inferno
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I think, and I like you, but frankly, you are having a hard time understanding supremacy.

Supremacy by definition almost always causes oppression. If you believe in female supremacy you are negating my feelings as a female sub who finds male submissives a turn off. That is what my issue is.

I understand Supremacy, to quote the definition exactly.su·prem·a·cy
so͞oˈpreməsē/
noun
noun: supremacy

the state or condition of being superior to all others in authority, power, or status.
To my sub, I am, if all women were, that also would be entirely fine.
To the issue of oppression. I am not going to be compared to Nazis or terrorists, that is taking it several steps too far.
To you shifty...the same can be said of eugenics but eugenics in itself is an actual science. RNAi technology is a far cry from the Hardy-Weinberg theory of evolution. Some people are genetically faster, some people are genetically stronger and some people are genetically smarter. Still that does not justify oppression of anyone. I believe that Supremacy in itself as a concept is a matter of perspective. I can tell you might have felt awful seeing that black girl bound on the floor with the n word scribbled on her, but I wasn't due to the CONTEXT. Some people simply enjoy it, like rape play, water sports, kidnapping and interrogation, gang bangs, etc. Some vanilla people might say "you want to be gagged and bound? WTF is wrong with you?" The same can be said for a number of preferences in the kink world. I try to be as objective as I can be. Part of why I like someone/or thing asking me if I am criminal minded in any way. The answer is no. I am all about consent in regards to this lifestyle and all things kinky.
It simply is something they have found is an extension of their sexuality, and that should be OK. It does not mean they oppose the Civil Rights Act, women having equal pay (or men for that matter), or are going to inherently see all men or women as their lessers. I am fine with my sub seeing all women as "Superior" in regards to his treatment of them and personal views of them. That reinforces our dynamic, but I don't expect him to do anything beyond male courtesies in regards to them, holding open a door, granting a compliment, giving up a seat etc.
I will add a lot of presumptions are made on here and it's almost as if trying to corner someone into revealing things they may not wish to, but sometimes we need to recognize when we do not know the "what, why, or where" but that a person chooses a collar because they're happy within that dynamic and that should be OK. Even if said dynamic is beyond our understanding like BDSM is to vanilla people.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 12:14:41 PM

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This is why people don't talk about their beliefs.... this is also why people call me a masochist ;)

I've come across men and women who both believe that men are genuinely superior.... I myself, for much of my youth held pretty soundly to one side.

You know what I found most odd about it, all of the doms I had who believed in male supremacy had one major thing in common... none had fathers. I always figured it would be the opposite. But in those cases having a relationship where you didn't respect your mother led to idolize get the image they didn't have a reference for.

If one is to go into the different between thinking and acting. My owner doesn't believe in male supremacy(he had a much better relationship with his mother than father) but he holds some common beliefs on behavior. That women thrive best staying home, raising kids,dedicated and loyal to one man for their whole life. The second most women hear that they think back to how most men who like that type are male supremacists, and automatically get defensive. He also realizes that most women don't want to be trapped inside all day and god forbids one thing happens to him he wants them to be able to take care of themselves, so all of his long term relationships he started businesses for his wives. He still saw it as his responsibility to care for them, still believes it is a man's job to protect his woman...but he thinks the girls should have a say in how that happens.

Thought, action.... the final would be speech. I believe that thought dictates speech. which I always figured would be obvious but I run into people constantly who will say something then immediately back pedal into "I didn't mean it" if you said something, no matter if it was emotion fueled or not... you meant it. I hold them to their first opinion no matter what. I.e. one of my exes told me he doesn't find me attractive.... I knew he was lying, but later when he said I turned him on I reminded him that he doesn't, nor will he ever find me attractive. He would never get any. Because no matter if he was lying,he was trying to portray an image with those words. He thought at that moment that being u attracted to me would make him look superior. I'm completely fine letting someone feel superior.... it rarely works out how they intend.

Jokes are another matter, I have a sense of humor that could be seen as self-deprecating, I don't mind looking the fool. I also know when something is a joke there is still truth behind it. Because what you say always is what you are accountable for. Oddly enough I've never been that girl to tell someone a joke is offensive. A joke is a way to poke at someone specifically in a way that isn't offensive in my view. So onto the story:

A couple years ago I was getting a spanking for responding "what's important?" To his suggestion i should do what's important. He said "This! THIS IS IMPORTANT!" holding my face over his crotch. I dont remember my exact wording.... something along the lines of "no it isn't" . So a bit later while we were still laying around joking. I said something along those lines again and he said "have you forgotten all that already?" Of course i responded "all what?" And he looked at me like i'm crazy and said something like "my god the brain damage. You are so stupid! Stupid dogs drink out of the toilet. I twirled off the bed and hopped into the bathroom. Sucking up a big gulp of toilet water walked back to the room and sprayed it in his face...

That was the one time my current tried any of that typical dommydouchery before he learned that I make people eat their words....literally
If a person is fine saying something, eventually they will be fine believing it, then they will act on it.

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 12:34:41 PM

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Supremacy is not just a kink.

It is a belief that all of x is better than all of y.

Race play is a kink

If you actually believe all whites are better, that's bigotry.

That is to say, yes supremacists do oppose the civil rights act, equal pay etc.

You can argue with me all you want but I think you are talking about a choosen lead in the individual relationship, not applying to the whole of the population like a supremicist would.

(in reply to DerangedUnit)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 12:37:05 PM

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From: Dante's Inferno
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_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 3:18:11 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Supremacy is not just a kink.

When it is carried out between consenting parties, that's exactly what it is.

It's my opinion that the difference between BDSM and all the other social ills with which it might be confused is that BDSM is safe, sane and consensual.

So long as one practises ones supremacist beliefs in a safe, sane and consensual manner, then there really ought to be nothing to get upset about.

Or are we playing thought police, deciding what people can and cannot think, can and cannot enjoy, can and cannot enact in their consensual relationships?

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 3:19:38 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
once someone believes that all people of one kind are superior, then consent has long since been thrown out the window.

Do you need the consent of anyone for your beliefs?

(in reply to DesFIP)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 3:23:54 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Supremacy by definition almost always causes oppression.

Really? Cause if I'm being honest, there's whole bunches of people I've always felt superior to. But I've yet to oppress them in any sense whatsoever. Of course I might dislike them, I might avoid them, I might even argue with them, but disagreement is not now and never has been 'oppression' - it is simply disagreement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
If you believe in female supremacy you are negating my feelings as a female sub who finds male submissives a turn off. That is what my issue is.

I see, so if a person is a Christian, then is that negating my feelings as an atheist? Perhaps we should all agree to have exactly the same opinion on things so that no-one's feelings are negated...

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 3:26:33 PM

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You know it seems to me, that this is one of those kinks that people really struggle to accept 'live and let live'. Although they may logically acknowledge that what people get up to in the privacy of their own homes is their own business, it's such a button-pressing topic that they just can't let it lie. It's as thought the mere existence of anyone who things men are superior is just too much to handle.

And yet, I bet those same people have no issue with the many female supremacist Dommes at all, most likely because they see it as harmless.

It's sort of interesting to me, just why people have such an emotional, explosive reaction to it. Is it because they feel subtly undermined as women anyway, and this just seems like more fuel to the fire?

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 3:42:51 PM

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Because they don't believe in live and let live?

Do you think a male supremicist takes a female led relationship seriously? If they do, they are, in my opinion, not a male supremicist- they just prefer male led relationships for themselves. A supremicist to me, and according to the definition I quoted earlier applies this thinking to the entire population, not just their relationship. I 100% think female supremacy is as wrong, considering I've spent this whole thread arguing with a Domme over that very thing...I would find that apparent.

And yes, Christians do routinely opress other religions. Without question.

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 3:47:39 PM

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From: Dante's Inferno
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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Because they don't believe in live and let live?

Do you think a male supremicist takes a female led relationship seriously?

Does it matter unless he was in a female led relationship? I mean forget the fact it is a widely recognized kink and that many female Dominants put it into practice and also that you signed up for a site that has "Female Supremacy" listed as a kink. Does it really even matter what a Male Supremacist who is outside of this dynamic thinks? Or even you who has just zero experience on the matter? I'm just giving you an alternative view here. Because I'm not even arguing, I'm just sort of confused, lmao.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 3/8/2015 3:48:12 PM >

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 4:26:21 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Do you think a male supremicist takes a female led relationship seriously?

So what if he doesn't? Is there some law that dictates what opinion we must have on the relationships of others?

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
If they do, they are, in my opinion, not a male supremicist- they just prefer male led relationships for themselves. A supremicist to me, and according to the definition I quoted earlier applies this thinking to the entire population, not just their relationship.
And yes, Christians do routinely opress other religions. Without question.

You seem to be confusing supremacy with oppression.

Supremacy is a belief system. Oppression is an action. Nobody on this thread is advocating the oppression of anyone else, regardless of their preferred relationship structure. What I am asking about is simply the belief system.

Unless you are suggesting that people do not have the right to believe whatever they wish to believe?

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 4:37:23 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
Supremacy is not just a kink.

When it is carried out between consenting parties, that's exactly what it is.

It's my opinion that the difference between BDSM and all the other social ills with which it might be confused is that BDSM is safe, sane and consensual.

So long as one practises ones supremacist beliefs in a safe, sane and consensual manner, then there really ought to be nothing to get upset about.

Or are we playing thought police, deciding what people can and cannot think, can and cannot enjoy, can and cannot enact in their consensual relationships?

There are two basic kinds of consent. Explicit consent and implicit, tacit consent. Looking away and not intervening to correct a social or personal injustice is a form of tacit consent, as with allowing bullying and harassment. I know that you mean explicit consent between two individuals, but these lines of consent are not always clearly demarcated.

When nations like ours stood passively by not intervening sooner in WWII to oppose fascism, a superpower in a position to take such risks, this was a form of tacit consent.
What the U.S. was doing behind the scenes covertly to assist their future axis allies, was not officially known to the public.

Going by your logic, then, anybody can proclaim any morally reprehensible attitude, sociopathic and/or psychopathic behavior toward another as their kink.
Nazism, Aryan or White Supremacy, Neo-Nazism, misanthropy, misogyny, misandry, religious bigotry, discrimination/snobbery, infidelity (spouse looks the other way), personality disorders, addictions, ad infinitum. . . . Stalkers often have convinced themselves that the one-sided fantasy affair they are carrying on in their minds is a consensual one.

You admitted to having feelings of superiority, and this is not uncommon on a socio-economic level and with those who secretly harbor a belief in their intellectual superiority, to look down upon others. It is probably human nature to do this to one extent or another, to favor one's clan of origin, to revile a homeless person or an indigent vagabond, welfare moms, crack whores and other drug addicts. The choice is always yours to catch yourself and then to practice empathy and compassion, which is the evidence of our humanity. An individual may not have much of choice or control over their anti-social, self-destructive behavior if he or she has a mental illness. But neither does mental illness give this person carte blanche to use insanity as a defense for their actions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

You know it seems to me, that this is one of those kinks that people really struggle to accept 'live and let live'. Although they may logically acknowledge that what people get up to in the privacy of their own homes is their own business, it's such a button-pressing topic that they just can't let it lie. It's as thought the mere existence of anyone who things men are superior is just too much to handle.

And yet, I bet those same people have no issue with the many female supremacist Dommes at all, most likely because they see it as harmless.

You are assuming or accepting of the notion that Male Supremacy and Female Supremacy are kinks or should be recognized as bona fide kinks, but there are those of us who contend that Supremacist philosophies are not.
Racism is not a kink. Race play is a kink.
The I-word is not a kink. I-word/age play is a kink.
Cheating on your spouse or partner, or looking for strange is not a kink. (It may or may not stem from a sex addiction or from porn addiction.)
Being the slave to an addiction is not a kink. Being a slave to one's ego is not a kink. Being self-centered and delusional is not a kink.

I'm not sure about this, but I don't believe that Female Supremacist Dommes count every single man as being inferior to every single woman without exception, or that no man could ever be her equal or deserving of respect as a peer. White Supremacists, on the other hand, believe that every single white person is inherently superior, and that all other races are subhuman, thus justifying inhumane treatment.

< Message edited by dreamlady -- 3/8/2015 5:06:09 PM >

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

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