RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy?

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RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 4:54:05 PM

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From: Dante's Inferno
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I have to laugh at the above post because I can see a black girl with the n word scribbled all over her and have the common sense to not believe she's being held captive by a Nazi gang. LMAO! Anyway.

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RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 4:55:06 PM

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Wow....I want to comment on so many different things people have said here....

But this is funny that this topic came up because just the other night I had no less than FOUR different guys send me messages asking me (in one form or another) if I believed that men were superior to women and that women were put on the earth for the sole purpose of serving and pleasing men. Even though I am submissive, that attitude just always gets under my skin in a bad way.

And I told each one of them that, I may be a submissive or even slave, and I may be looking for a relationship where I submit to and serve my partner, but to say that women in general are meant to serve men in general is disgusting and ridiculous. It's also ridiculous to say that one gender is superior over the other gender. Yes....there are some things that men (in general) are better at then women, but at the same time there are thing that women (in general) are better at than men. But who was the one who said that what the man did was more important and therefore made him the superior gender overall? Men no doubt....

I also do not understand the idea that men are superior because they are the "protector" of women. What are they protecting women from? Other men? Isn't that kind of weird vicious circle that if men didn't have the attitude that they do toward women then maybe we wouldn't NEED to be protected in the first place??

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RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 5:02:11 PM

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I'm not into race play but I can say "wow that looks cool" without trying to call the NAACP, LMAO.

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RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/8/2015 6:15:03 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

I'm just really curious if anyone here does this, believes this, role plays it or wants a relationship based on it?

Nope to all of the above.

I don't want to be in a relationship where my partner believes, or wants me to believe, that he is "superior" to me, by virtue of having a penis or otherwise. I don't even see us role-playing any scenario based on this.

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RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 12:24:36 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
There are two basic kinds of consent. Explicit consent and implicit, tacit consent. Looking away and not intervening to correct a social or personal injustice is a form of tacit consent, as with allowing bullying and harassment. I know that you mean explicit consent between two individuals, but these lines of consent are not always clearly demarcated.

There is no evidence that a person with a consensual supremacy kink would tacitly or otherwise condone oppression. In fact, the vast majority of kinksters explicitly condemn oppression, whatever the nature of their preferences. For example, on another website there is a group for feminists who like to enjoy a male supremacy kink. It is unlikely that such people would, tacitly, overtly or in any other way condone, allow or encourage oppression against others. I would also point out that there is no onus, in the vanilla world, on people to follow any moral system other than the law. So to suggest that when a kinkster holds a supremacist view, then this is dangerous because it might lead into other things, whilst no such system of checks or pressures operates on vanilla people, then you are espousing a double standard, whereby the views of kinksters are suspect, non-consensual and encouraging oppression, whereas the views of vanillas are harmless, individualist and nobody else's business. Thus your post, by your own logic, tacitly encourages and condones a system of oppression against kinksters.

I would also point out that one could make the 'slippery slope' argument for many other kinks, for example that sadomasochists tacitly condone domestic abuse, or that Daddy Doms tacitly condone paedophilia, or that M/s relationships tacitly condone real life slavery. Where does it end? Or is it only male supremacy that is vulnerable to accusations of tacit consent, whereas the vast panoply of kink is beyond reproach?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
Going by your logic, then, anybody can proclaim any morally reprehensible attitude, sociopathic and/or psychopathic behavior toward another as their kink.

Only if it is *consensual* with the other party. And if it is consensual, then yes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
infidelity (spouse looks the other way), personality disorders, addictions, ad infinitum. . . . Stalkers often have convinced themselves that the one-sided fantasy affair they are carrying on in their minds is a consensual one.

I do not believe that these would meet the definition of 'informed consent' and several of them do not meet the standards for safe or sane. I am not sure what relation any of these have to male supremacy. Is it only male supremacy that causes you to wax lyrical about the dangers of 'consensual' behaviour that you dislike, or do you reject the whole concept of consent altogether?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
You admitted to having feelings of superiority, and this is not uncommon on a socio-economic level and with those who secretly harbor a belief in their intellectual superiority, to look down upon others. It is probably human nature to do this to one extent or another, to favor one's clan of origin, to revile a homeless person or an indigent vagabond, welfare moms, crack whores and other drug addicts. The choice is always yours to catch yourself and then to practice empathy and compassion, which is the evidence of our humanity.

And yet, you feel that your belief system is superior to those who enjoy consensual male supremacy, instead of 'catching yourself' and practising empathy and compassion. Perhaps you should take a moment to think about a time when others have considered your fetishes somehow unacceptable, dangerous or reprehensible and apply that understanding to the fetishes of others.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
You are assuming or accepting of the notion that Male Supremacy and Female Supremacy are kinks

Actually, I am assuming or accepting of the notion that consensual Male Supremacy is a kink.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
I'm not sure about this, but I don't believe that Female Supremacist Dommes count every single man as being inferior to every single woman without exception

Are you justifying female supremacy then? Because I would like to point out that if you accept female supremacy as a-ok but not male-supremacy then that is, by definition, sexist, which is exactly what you seem to be arguing against here.

Besides which, we haven't really found out exactly what male supremacists believe, or what extent they take their kink to, because people were so quick to judge that I doubt many male supremacists are keen to contribute their opinion, knowing they may get compared to fascists. Not that I'm judging, compassion and empathy eh? All the way :-)

(in reply to dreamlady)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 1:44:28 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamlady
I'm not sure about this, but I don't believe that Female Supremacist Dommes count every single man as being inferior to every single woman without exception

Are you justifying female supremacy then? Because I would like to point out that if you accept female supremacy as a-ok but not male-supremacy then that is, by definition, sexist, which is exactly what you seem to be arguing against here.

Besides which, we haven't really found out exactly what male supremacists believe, or what extent they take their kink to, because people were so quick to judge that I doubt many male supremacists are keen to contribute their opinion, knowing they may get compared to fascists. Not that I'm judging, compassion and empathy eh? All the way :-)

Due to the late hour, let me jump down to this part of your post for clarification purposes. I did preface my remark with "I'm not sure about this" to convey that I was not defending Female Supremacy vs. Male Supremacy. I thought it was evident that my position is anti-Supremacist. If others, including yourself, misunderstood then it was my bad.

I was speaking about those Dommes I know who lean toward Female Supremacist thinking, not Dommes who are not known to me. IMO, it isn't so much that they are man-haters or radical feminists, but more that on a personal level, they are generally disappointed in the male gender and not so much that they enjoy treating all men like second-class citizens. This may be a coincidence, but I have a penchant for spotting patterns. All of these Dommes (with the exception of one who hasn't mentioned one way or the other) either had fathers they consider failures or were otherwise inadequate as father figures (unreliable, weak or absent) or at one time in their past they were in a domestically abusive relationship/marriage.

You were pondering whether Female Supremacy was perceived as being harmless, and I tried to help broaden your perspective to the extent that I could.

Not to belabor the issue of consent, but I get the impression from your comments that as long as there is initial consent between parties, then anything goes in the name of kink. I'm paraphrasing, of course. Would you agree, though, that if and when any consensual dynamic crosses over from fantasy roleplay into indelible reality, that there is a much greater potential for oppression and abuse getting perpetrated by the naturally "Superior" partner? Not as in greater in authority by virtue of individual attributes, but as in "my" kind is automatically entitled to lord it over "your" kind. How can a person who is predisposed to wanting to be objectified (e.g. submissive) distinguish between consenting to objectification, and being depersonalized categorically or getting inextricably entangled into a clusterfuck of oppression?

Another poster brought up seeing a black girl who didn't object to having the "n"-word scribbled on her body. Race play and or a humiliation/degradation fetish aside, I've also been told on many occasions by African-Americans (and witnessed) that they can use the "n"-word among themselves without offense (unless there is a personal objection to this practice) - to diffuse the negative hold this derogatory term has held over them for hundreds of years (the way that some females and males alike use the word "slut" amongst themselves) - but that if you are an outlier (not a homeboy), an ethnic outsider, who hasn't been grafted into the in-group, then this is off limits and you get no free pass.

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 3:53:11 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: orgasmdenial12

Besides which, we haven't really found out exactly what male supremacists believe, or what extent they take their kink to, because people were so quick to judge that I doubt many male supremacists are keen to contribute their opinion, knowing they may get compared to fascists. Not that I'm judging, compassion and empathy eh? All the way :-)

Icarusburning wrote a thoughtful response. Maybe it's not getting much attention because it's not quite the extremist, hateful attitude that some were hoping for.

(in reply to orgasmdenial12)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 6:18:30 AM

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Icarus wrote a thoughtful response- but ive been ignoring it because I simply disagree with his science and I'm not looking to link articles back and forth. I still found it bigoted. I also found it ironic that he has a post going about dangerous desires and I consider his belief system to be very dangerous. I also didnt want to respond to it because my last post here got met with "are you saying people can't believe what they want?" To which I wanted to respond "are you?"

Belief systems can be dangerous. I don't think any supremacy is a good belief system. I think if someone joins the KKK but never burns a cross or kills a black or marches with them, they are still part of an oppressive and dangerous belief system and they are sure as hell still racist.

I think believing in supremacy, no matter how you spin it, is extreme.
Choosing and consenting for a male led or female led relationship for yourself? Fine.
Thinking that it would work for everyone else? Extreme, short sighted, dangerous.

(in reply to Kaliko)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 6:37:28 AM

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I just can't honestly believe we are talking about what's extreme beliefs, and what isn't... you do realize EVERY SINGLE PERSON HERE is considered a nut case by vanillas right? for our "deviant" behavior, with "abusers" and we are all fucked in the head according to THEIR beliefs... I'm just really in awe that so many hypocrites are in this thread. "its ok for me to believe and practice what I want, but nobody else can, it's wrong" just ROFL. seriously I LOL'd.

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 6:55:44 AM

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Everyone has kinks they see as immoral or wrong.
I guess this is one of mine *shrugs*

Supremacy to me, basically means you don't believe in homosexual relationships, or the opposite gender leading a relationship. What about those who are gender neutral? Trans? Where do they fit into this? You certainly don't recognize switches of either gender- and you cant possibly have consent from "all others" of your gender being superior. It simply isn't possible to have it be consentual with everyone you've met- especially when you're already basically calling all those things I just mentioned unnatural.

Manko says her sub treats all women as superior. I didnt consent to him seeing me as superior. "Why does that matter shifty?" Because I'm a female sub, a bi female sub- I can see both genders as my superiors, I want to choose how I view a person and see them for what they are, not something that is instantly inferior based on what they identify as. I am better at certain shit than my guy, and vice versa. He certainly doesn't think its because I'm female, he thinks we each have unique talents- because we are people. To sit here and say that "men are better" is a bigoted generalization that marginalizes whole groups of people. I feel strongly it is wrong to do that. I feel strongly that women and men have contributed things throughout history- and to negate withers contributions is ignoring the facts.

I'm not a hypocrite- I'm very firmly in the camp of this "kink" or "belief system" is wrong. I have a similar speech about other "kinks" I think are wrong- I don't have to accept something because it's being presented as kinky- when I don't feel it is just kink.

(in reply to Kittenluv954)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 7:01:23 AM

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For clarification, when I say that his post wasn't extremist, I meant it didn't use extreme examples the way some others put it on this thread: that in order to believe in gender superiority, that means that the other gender must be treated badly. (Scum, brainless.) Having a belief in male superiority doesn't necessitate female degradation. (Unless, of course, you find the very idea degrading.)

Anyway, perhaps "extremist" was the wrong word for me to use. I'm writing on the fly.

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RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 7:17:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Everyone has kinks they see as immoral or wrong.
I guess this is one of mine *shrugs*

Supremacy to me, basically means you don't believe in homosexual relationships, or the opposite gender leading a relationship. What about those who are gender neutral? Trans? Where do they fit into this? You certainly don't recognize switches of either gender- and you cant possibly have consent from "all others" of your gender being superior. It simply isn't possible to have it be consentual with everyone you've met- especially when you're already basically calling all those things I just mentioned unnatural.

Manko says her sub treats all women as superior. I didnt consent to him seeing me as superior. "Why does that matter shifty?" Because I'm a female sub, a bi female sub- I can see both genders as my superiors, I want to choose how I view a person and see them for what they are, not something that is instantly inferior based on what they identify as. I am better at certain shit than my guy, and vice versa. He certainly doesn't think its because I'm female, he thinks we each have unique talents- because we are people. To sit here and say that "men are better" is a bigoted generalization that marginalizes whole groups of people. I feel strongly it is wrong to do that. I feel strongly that women and men have contributed things throughout history- and to negate withers contributions is ignoring the facts.

I'm not a hypocrite- I'm very firmly in the camp of this "kink" or "belief system" is wrong. I have a similar speech about other "kinks" I think are wrong- I don't have to accept something because it's being presented as kinky- when I don't feel it is just kink.

but the very first line in this statement conflicts with the last. is it a kink, or isn't it? honestly, and this is just a guess. but I think something in this entire topic is just triggered something in you to fight. this is coming from someplace personal, and really not about the discussion topic IMO. as for the "everyone has kinks they think are immoral or wrong" I really don't. I have kinks I find disgusting, way too edgy FOR ME, and things that are just straight up fucking strange, and I have no idea how ANYONE can be into it. I just avoid those things like the plague, but I don't take them up as a personal crusade to fight against. this is all just discussion for conversation sake. but I get the feeling it just strikes a raw nerve here, so any discussion at that point is futile.

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 7:49:17 AM

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I guess there are people in this world who try to justify child molestation as kink.
I see this as a means of justifying misandry, homophobia, mysoginy etc.

My issue is that supremacy is applied to the whole population- vanilla, kinky, gay, straight- and I do not feel it is morally acceptable to do that in the guise of kink, or otherwise.

The ONLY instance I would be ok with this is in a role play scenario.

(in reply to Kittenluv954)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 8:20:03 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Belief systems can be dangerous. I don't think any supremacy is a good belief system. I think if someone joins the KKK but never burns a cross or kills a black or marches with them, they are still part of an oppressive and dangerous belief system and they are sure as hell still racist.

I think believing in supremacy, no matter how you spin it, is extreme.
Choosing and consenting for a male led or female led relationship for yourself? Fine.
Thinking that it would work for everyone else? Extreme, short sighted, dangerous.

Sexism and racism, and extreme religious and anti-religious intolerance are belief systems which have no place in BDSM, and they violate the very principle of consensuality. Does a group of people lumped together categorically consent to being persecuted or terrorized? No, consent doesn't factor in.
They have no place in D/s. This is the whole point. Not everyone practicing their kinks and fetishes follows SSC either, so this is not about imposing or opting-out of Sane, Safe and Consensual conduct for those who choose Risk Awareness instead.

Consensual superiority/inferiority dynamics between individuals as individuals is a private affair. It may not be what I personally get into (and why I feel uncomfortable with doing any sort of race play or age play, because it's too close for comfort for me personally), but I don't need to be told that practicing sexism, racism or any other -ism is a personal preference which falls under the no-judgment zone of BDSM kink.

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

To sit here and say that "men are better" is a bigoted generalization that marginalizes whole groups of people.

- I don't have to accept something because it's being presented as kinky- when I don't feel it is just kink.

. . . because this is sexism - and not even thinly disguised - or an -ism in one form of groupthink or another. To say that entire populations of peoples are inferior to others is prejudicial, bigoted and anti-humanistic. (Although humanism is an -ism, it doesn't promote targeting others in self-interest, or it shouldn't under the banner of humanism. Neither does altruism. In fact, neither should feminism, which has gone astray from its foundational Abolitionist/Suffragette roots of freedom of opportunity to make individual choices and to be able to pursue these choices without being infringed upon nor infringing upon the rights of others.)

You expressed it more succinctly than I did, shiftyw, that a kinky subset or components of fetishes incorporated into ideological doctrines does not make it ex cathedra.

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 8:20:29 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kaliko

Icarusburning wrote a thoughtful response. Maybe it's not getting much attention because it's not quite the extremist, hateful attitude that some were hoping for.

I spent some time last night speaking with my man about the issues that IcarusBurning brought up-- because, ya know, what else is there to do on a Sunday night?

The conversation started with me saying "hon, you know that I don't consider you a superior being, right?"

He just chuckled and said, "good, I don't consider myself one either".

We both came into this relationship with our own strengths and weaknesses, so we are not "equal" by any stretch of the imagination. Because I have chosen to submit to him though doesn't make him a "superior human being" in my mind. I have surely put my trust and faith in him-- and he has done the same with me.

Does he have "supremacy" in the relationship? Sure, if I'm using the portion of the definition referring to being higher in authority. Is he "superior" to me? That's where I have issues.

According to the definition--

adjective
1.
higher in station, rank, degree, importance, etc.:
a superior officer.
2.
above the average in excellence, merit, intelligence, etc.:
superior math students.
3.
of higher grade or quality:
superior merchandise.
4.
greater in quantity or amount:
superior numbers.
5.
showing a consciousness or feeling of being better than or above others:
superior airs.
6.
not yielding or susceptible (usually followed by to):
to be superior to temptation.
7.
higher in place or position:
We moved our camp to superior ground.

To me, the word "superior" connotes the idea that someone has inherent qualities that just make them *better* than others. Whether it's used to describe one person or a group of people, it's an idea that I don't subscribe to-- either generally or in my personal relationships.

quote:

ORIGINAL: IcarusBurning

A superior human being is one who can shoulder that responsibility, make a better man out of himself and inspire others to do good.

"Superior" to whom? Does the ability to *effectively* lead, whether it be one person or millions, make someone inherently a "better person"?

Certainly, I'm "superior" to my man in certain things, and he's "superior" to me in others. Overall though, I don't accept the fact that because he is Dominant, he is, by definition, a "superior being".

(in reply to Kaliko)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 9:49:34 AM

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^^ LLB is making the point I've been trying to make the whole time. Supremacy is a belief that ALL of x is better than ALL of y.

Not that some people prefer a male led relationship or a female led relationship <---- I have zero issues with that.

I have issues with someone who assumes they are better, superior to, or otherwise above some based on what's between their legs.

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 9:50:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Icarus wrote a thoughtful response- but ive been ignoring it because I simply disagree with his science and I'm not looking to link articles back and forth. I still found it bigoted. I also found it ironic that he has a post going about dangerous desires and I consider his belief system to be very dangerous. I also didnt want to respond to it because my last post here got met with "are you saying people can't believe what they want?" To which I wanted to respond "are you?"

Belief systems can be dangerous. I don't think any supremacy is a good belief system. I think if someone joins the KKK but never burns a cross or kills a black or marches with them, they are still part of an oppressive and dangerous belief system and they are sure as hell still racist.

I think believing in supremacy, no matter how you spin it, is extreme.
Choosing and consenting for a male led or female led relationship for yourself? Fine.
Thinking that it would work for everyone else? Extreme, short sighted, dangerous.

Those who do believe in the supremacy of one gender over another I would ask: on what basis is this idea borne? Have you never met someone of the gender you feel superior to who is smarter, nicer, richer, (etc.) than you? How do you explain that? If your response is something along the lines of exceptions to every rule, then gender supremacy is not a viable belief.

I think it is rather silly to believe that a person's genitalia makes them superior. Instead of male or female supremacy, I propose we call it what it is; penile or vaginal supremacy. Kinda makes me giggle to think about it!

< Message edited by catize -- 3/9/2015 9:52:36 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 10:38:31 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I have issues with someone who assumes they are better, superior to, or otherwise above some based on what's between their legs.

For some reason, I have the line from Spiderman (?) running through my head-- "With great power comes great responsibility".

"Son, your penis gives you great power, but you have to use it responsibly. Those without a penis don't understand how much of a burden it is to live as a superior being. That's just how they are. Don't blame them though-- they had no choice in not having a penis. Those without a penis will look up to you, and view you as superior. Make sure that you give up your seat for them, or open doors for them-- they need to see these simple things as an outward expression of your superiority. It makes them feel better about viewing you as a superior being. You will see, as you grow older, how emotional those without a penis can be. Again, don't blame them for this, as they had no choice in it. You just be the best person with a penis you can be."

(in reply to shiftyw)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 10:42:12 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I have issues with someone who assumes they are better, superior to, or otherwise above some based on what's between their legs.

For some reason, I have the line from Spiderman (?) running through my head-- "With great power comes great responsibility".

"Son, your penis gives you great power, but you have to use it responsibly. Those without a penis don't understand how much of a burden it is to live as a superior being. That's just how they are. Don't blame them though-- they had no choice in not having a penis. Those without a penis will look up to you, and view you as superior. Make sure that you give up your seat for them, or open doors for them-- they need to see these simple things as an outward expression of your superiority. It makes them feel better about viewing you as a superior being. You will see, as you grow older, how emotional those without a penis can be. Again, don't blame them for this, as they had no choice in it. You just be the best person with a penis you can be."

You made me laugh LLB!!!

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to littleladybug)

RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy? - 3/9/2015 10:44:58 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Everyone has kinks they see as immoral or wrong.
I guess this is one of mine *shrugs*

Supremacy to me, basically means you don't believe in homosexual relationships, or the opposite gender leading a relationship. What about those who are gender neutral? Trans? Where do they fit into this? You certainly don't recognize switches of either gender- and you cant possibly have consent from "all others" of your gender being superior. It simply isn't possible to have it be consentual with everyone you've met- especially when you're already basically calling all those things I just mentioned unnatural.

Manko says her sub treats all women as superior. I didnt consent to him seeing me as superior. "Why does that matter shifty?" Because I'm a female sub, a bi female sub- I can see both genders as my superiors, I want to choose how I view a person and see them for what they are, not something that is instantly inferior based on what they identify as. I am better at certain shit than my guy, and vice versa. He certainly doesn't think its because I'm female, he thinks we each have unique talents- because we are people. To sit here and say that "men are better" is a bigoted generalization that marginalizes whole groups of people. I feel strongly it is wrong to do that. I feel strongly that women and men have contributed things throughout history- and to negate withers contributions is ignoring the facts.

I'm not a hypocrite- I'm very firmly in the camp of this "kink" or "belief system" is wrong. I have a similar speech about other "kinks" I think are wrong- I don't have to accept something because it's being presented as kinky- when I don't feel it is just kink.

I'm pretty sure my collared doesn't care about who or what you are nor will you elicit much of a response from him other than a yawn, so you can rest better at night.

_____________________________

Happy consent is the name of the game. You are my perfect Mistress. - my collared.

http://submissivemale.blogspot.com/

The Bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame.

(in reply to shiftyw)

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All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: Bit Controversial - Consensual Male Supremacy?

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