quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Political Correctness is the problem.

In our country, we put Jehovah witnesses in jail. So we put radical christians in jail.

Our laws jail religious group members who are members of any religion that encourages and teaches their followers to disobey common law.

I would say radical Muslims should come under this category too.

If one thing Ted Cruz is right, it starts with definition. Clear guideline on how to differentiate a radical muslim from a moderate muslim, and then prosecuting radical muslims.

But political correctness will get in the way of this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale
Which is not possible, and the idea of the incredible Mr Trump is not to get radicals, but to get muslims. Being a radical himself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale
Which is not possible, and the idea of the incredible Mr Trump is not to get radicals, but to get muslims. Being a radical himself.

I just don't understand why people like to twist this issue.
Trump is saying, halt all Muslim entry, until he can figure out how to differentiate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims. He wants to find a way to only have good harmless Muslims in and keep out the bad.

It's like the same thing, with Mexicans. He didn't say all Mexicans are rapists. He said there are rapists among illegal Mexicans. And he didn't say he wants to deport all Mexicans. He just want to deport people who were illegally in the US.

People keep twisting his words.

Also, he is simply laying out the general solutions of what really, just very practical solving problems solutions. But when he becomes President, he will learn all the complications of any of his plans from his expert advisers and he will be flexible and make decisions according to what's practical and doable and best way to protect America.

quote:


I just find it also funny how the entire republican party unanimously agrees Reagan was one of the greats, and yet, he was an actor. So it just proves you don't need political experience to be a good President. It just means, you need to have the right intuition to make the right decisions with all the information at hand. And people make successful businesses on intuition. You get all the advise from experts, but the call at the end of the day, is your own, whether to take the advice or not. And make that decision and stand by it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: Svale
Which is not possible, and the idea of the incredible Mr Trump is not to get radicals, but to get muslims. Being a radical himself.

I just don't understand why people like to twist this issue.
Trump is saying, halt all Muslim entry, until he can figure out how to differentiate the good Muslims from the bad Muslims. He wants to find a way to only have good harmless Muslims in and keep out the bad.

It's like the same thing, with Mexicans. He didn't say all Mexicans are rapists. He said there are rapists among illegal Mexicans. And he didn't say he wants to deport all Mexicans. He just want to deport people who were illegally in the US.

People keep twisting his words.

Also, he is simply laying out the general solutions of what really, just very practical solving problems solutions. But when he becomes President, he will learn all the complications of any of his plans from his expert advisers and he will be flexible and make decisions according to what's practical and doable and best way to protect America.

I just find it also funny how the entire republican party unanimously agrees Reagan was one of the greats, and yet, he was an actor. So it just proves you don't need political experience to be a good President. It just means, you need to have the right intuition to make the right decisions with all the information at hand. And people make successful businesses on intuition. You get all the advise from experts, but the call at the end of the day, is your own, whether to take the advice or not. And make that decision and stand by it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

You ain't no muslim, bruv.

Herbert.

quote:

Much better to paint him as an evil racist and then try to claim that all conservatives think like him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

Much better to paint him as an evil racist and then try to claim that all conservatives think like him.

I've not seen the claim anywhere that 'all conservatives think like Trump'. Also, technically it's arguable that it's nothing to do with race if we're talking of a religion rather than a race of people - though I think it's what's called 'cultural racism'. It's still prejudiced thinking. It pre-judges the thing that makes people potentially be dangerous to be their religion.

Why that thing - their religion - rather than anything else about them? I mean, if the positions were to be reversed - say, you or I wanted to get into Saudi Arabia - wouldn't you be at least surprised, or even outraged, if the Saudi Arabians were to say, 'A Christian murdered a man here last year - we're not letting Christians like you in any more'? It wouldn't make sense. Me, I'd say, 'Eh? What's Christianity got to do with it? The Christian man who murdered that person was a lunatic. I'm not a lunatic!'

Such racism doesn't just harm the people towards whom racists are being racist, though. (Though one immediate effect of a ban on Muslims would be to cut off people who live here from their friends and families back in the old country - which seems cruel to me.) It can also damage the lives of the racists. Re that: I sometimes wonder what the net profit to our lives would be, given a policy of 'bar all Muslims'. I mean, for instance: balance the minus of the murders a Muslim terrorist might commit against the lives saved by a Muslim doctor, or the companies Muslim entrepreneurs now can't set up ... etc, etc.

Me, I like the image that the military started to use a decade or so ago - that of 'surgical bombing'. You bomb the people you *know* to be the enemy and do no damage to anybody else. In surgery, literally, you excise the one bit that's doing the damage, and no other. You don't amputate a man's leg to get rid of his verruca, for instance. The cure would be worse than the problem. You do likewise to protect your community.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

The difference is you claimed my figure of 1 mil asylum seekers was pure crap. I thereby proved it was not in fact crap.

It was in fact accurate.

And in fact, asylum seekers in 2016 q on q are ending at the same rate.

And you contest the 20 million figure, while ignoring the un figure that more than 59 million people are currently displaced and seeking asylum.

quote:

Since we were talking about germany, lets try to stay consistent.

I asked you what facts do you have to dispute:

1. Native population is declining.
2. Muslim birthrates, even though they grow closer to native - never get less than 3 children - more than double native german rates.
3. immigration is increasing muslim population 1% a year.
4. On top of all these thngs - significant numbers of convrsions occur - the rate of conversion away from Islam is 1/10 the rate of conversion TO islam.

The fact is - there has never been a pattern such as muslim immigration in the west - it is a new paradigm one not easily described by other immigration patterns.

quote:

It isnt even hearsay, its racist bullshit. As is Hahns notion that there are 20 million migrants waiting to enter the EU. Lets not forget the 20 million figure comes from a member of a conservative party from Eastern Europe.

As are most of Phydeauxs posts, such as accepting Hahns claim at face value, when only 1,300,000 asylum seekers entered Europe last year, many Christian and many from Africa.

quote:

There is A huge difference in our thinking and wiring.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Why do you take it as a given that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are the same.

quote:

Why do you think that Christian / Muslim aren't useful to indicate traits - just as liberal / conservative have a tendency to indicate traits?

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Why do you take it as a given that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are the same.

Why do think that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are different? I mean, in ways that anyone would find really important? Me, I don't give a flying rat's arse if the man next door to me worships a watermelon and bows down to it every night and insists on wearing a watermelon on his head. I just need to know that he's intelligent, polite, thoughtful and doesn't want to kill me. I can't say the same of many of the Christians that the USA has produced.

quote:

Why do you think that Christian / Muslim aren't useful to indicate traits - just as liberal / conservative have a tendency to indicate traits?

Because liberal/conservative make *vast* differences, as do other cultural differences that have absolutely nothing to do with religion. A liberal Christian in England is just about as different to a right wing Republican Evangelist Christian as Ali, the man at my corner shop who sells me daily newspaper, is different to the average ISIS fruitcake killer.

I'd be friendly enough from the outset to somebody like Ali. Your USA evangelist Christians, though, frighten the fuck out of me. They are *not* my type and I don't ever want anything to do with them. I simply don't have anything in common with mad fanatics, of *any* religious variety - and, by European standards, the USA is heaving with fanatical religionists - of the Christian variety.

Jeez, Phydeaux. To get it into proportion ... I imagine you know what the average liberal, generally agnostic American thinks of the average US bible-thumper. Well, in Europe, that feeling would be magnified a hundred times - and I'm talking in the context of conservative Europeans, as well as lefties.

Right wing bible bashers in the USA generally have just *no idea* how plain, downright, dangerously lunatic they look to Europeans. They really, really don't. I'd suggest to you, Phydeaux, that if you don't believe me, you talk to some right wing Christian Europeans. But it'd be a waste of time because you'd ask a self-identified European rightwinger, get the answer I've just given you, and - despite his astonishment - instantly brush him away as a 'lefty'.

To me, the 'us' category contains atheists through to easy-going theists - by which I mean those people who are into their preferred religion but have sifted away the cruel, nasty and plainly irrational parts of it. They've let their religion go 'fuzzy', basically, the better so that it fits with modern day ideas of being reasonable and good people. Such people could be self-identified Christians, Buddhists, Muslims ... whatever. I don't care. They're in the 'decent type' group for me - they want to be nice, they want to get on with people, they don't want to be shits to this or that sort of person. The 'them' category contains Bible or Koran book-bashers who have made nastiness into a virtue. I loathe both types of 'them' and never, ever want anything to do with either.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Why do you take it as a given that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are the same.

Why do think that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are different? I mean, in ways that anyone would find really important? Me, I don't give a flying rat's arse if the man next door to me worships a watermelon and bows down to it every night and insists on wearing a watermelon on his head. I just need to know that he's intelligent, polite, thoughtful and doesn't want to kill me. I can't say the same of many of the Christians that the USA has produced.

quote:

Why do you think that Christian / Muslim aren't useful to indicate traits - just as liberal / conservative have a tendency to indicate traits?

Because liberal/conservative make *vast* differences, as do other cultural differences that have absolutely nothing to do with religion. A liberal Christian in England is just about as different to a right wing Republican Evangelist Christian as Ali, the man at my corner shop who sells me daily newspaper, is different to the average ISIS fruitcake killer.

I'd be friendly enough from the outset to somebody like Ali. Your USA evangelist Christians, though, frighten the fuck out of me. They are *not* my type and I don't ever want anything to do with them. I simply don't have anything in common with mad fanatics, of *any* religious variety - and, by European standards, the USA is heaving with fanatical religionists - of the Christian variety.

Jeez, Phydeaux. To get it into proportion ... I imagine you know what the average liberal, generally agnostic American thinks of the average US bible-thumper. Well, in Europe, that feeling would be magnified a hundred times - and I'm talking in the context of conservative Europeans, as well as lefties.

Right wing bible bashers in the USA generally have just *no idea* how plain, downright, dangerously lunatic they look to Europeans. They really, really don't. I'd suggest to you, Phydeaux, that if you don't believe me, you talk to some right wing Christian Europeans. But it'd be a waste of time because you'd ask a self-identified European rightwinger, get the answer I've just given you, and - despite his astonishment - instantly brush him away as a 'lefty'.

To me, the 'us' category contains atheists through to easy-going theists - by which I mean those people who are into their preferred religion but have sifted away the cruel, nasty and plainly irrational parts of it. They've let their religion go 'fuzzy', basically, the better so that it fits with modern day ideas of being reasonable and good people. Such people could be self-identified Christians, Buddhists, Muslims ... whatever. I don't care. They're in the 'decent type' group for me - they want to be nice, they want to get on with people, they don't want to be shits to this or that sort of person. The 'them' category contains Bible or Koran book-bashers who have made nastiness into a virtue. I loathe both types of 'them' and never, ever want anything to do with either.

Thank you for making my point exceeding well for me.

You have just established that europeans are not the same as americans. Fuzzy theists are not the same as fundamentals.

You, for whatever reasons you choose, choose to lump fundamentalist christians into the same camp as fundamentalist muslims. Thats your right - to characterize people as you wish. So the question becomes, Now, why won't you accept that OTHER people find there are differences between muslims and christians.

Why do you so vehemently argue there is not? When you engage in the exact same behavior, just with different target groups. Why is "your way" ..""correct"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Why do you take it as a given that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are the same.

Why do think that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are different? I mean, in ways that anyone would find really important? Me, I don't give a flying rat's arse if the man next door to me worships a watermelon and bows down to it every night and insists on wearing a watermelon on his head. I just need to know that he's intelligent, polite, thoughtful and doesn't want to kill me. I can't say the same of many of the Christians that the USA has produced.

quote:

Why do you think that Christian / Muslim aren't useful to indicate traits - just as liberal / conservative have a tendency to indicate traits?

Because liberal/conservative make *vast* differences, as do other cultural differences that have absolutely nothing to do with religion. A liberal Christian in England is just about as different to a right wing Republican Evangelist Christian as Ali, the man at my corner shop who sells me daily newspaper, is different to the average ISIS fruitcake killer.

I'd be friendly enough from the outset to somebody like Ali. Your USA evangelist Christians, though, frighten the fuck out of me. They are *not* my type and I don't ever want anything to do with them. I simply don't have anything in common with mad fanatics, of *any* religious variety - and, by European standards, the USA is heaving with fanatical religionists - of the Christian variety.

Jeez, Phydeaux. To get it into proportion ... I imagine you know what the average liberal, generally agnostic American thinks of the average US bible-thumper. Well, in Europe, that feeling would be magnified a hundred times - and I'm talking in the context of conservative Europeans, as well as lefties.

Right wing bible bashers in the USA generally have just *no idea* how plain, downright, dangerously lunatic they look to Europeans. They really, really don't. I'd suggest to you, Phydeaux, that if you don't believe me, you talk to some right wing Christian Europeans. But it'd be a waste of time because you'd ask a self-identified European rightwinger, get the answer I've just given you, and - despite his astonishment - instantly brush him away as a 'lefty'.

To me, the 'us' category contains atheists through to easy-going theists - by which I mean those people who are into their preferred religion but have sifted away the cruel, nasty and plainly irrational parts of it. They've let their religion go 'fuzzy', basically, the better so that it fits with modern day ideas of being reasonable and good people. Such people could be self-identified Christians, Buddhists, Muslims ... whatever. I don't care. They're in the 'decent type' group for me - they want to be nice, they want to get on with people, they don't want to be shits to this or that sort of person. The 'them' category contains Bible or Koran book-bashers who have made nastiness into a virtue. I loathe both types of 'them' and never, ever want anything to do with either.

Thank you for making my point exceeding well for me.

You have just established that europeans are not the same as americans. Fuzzy theists are not the same as fundamentals.

You, for whatever reasons you choose, choose to lump fundamentalist christians into the same camp as fundamentalist muslims. Thats your right - to characterize people as you wish. So the question becomes, Now, why won't you accept that OTHER people find there are differences between muslims and christians.

Why do you so vehemently argue there is not? When you engage in the exact same behavior, just with different target groups. Why is "your way" ..""correct"

Lol, wow, you complete missed the point of what he said, didn't you? Pathetic.

quote:


Thank you for making my point exceeding well for me.

You have just established that europeans are not the same as americans. Fuzzy theists are not the same as fundamentals.

You, for whatever reasons you choose, choose to lump fundamentalist christians into the same camp as fundamentalist muslims. Thats your right - to characterize people as you wish. So the question becomes, Now, why won't you accept that OTHER people find there are differences between muslims and christians.

Why do you so vehemently argue there is not? When you engage in the exact same behavior, just with different target groups. Why is "your way" ..""correct"

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tkman117

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: Phydeaux

Why do you take it as a given that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are the same.

Why do think that people of different nationalities, races, religions and cultures are different? I mean, in ways that anyone would find really important? Me, I don't give a flying rat's arse if the man next door to me worships a watermelon and bows down to it every night and insists on wearing a watermelon on his head. I just need to know that he's intelligent, polite, thoughtful and doesn't want to kill me. I can't say the same of many of the Christians that the USA has produced.

quote:

Why do you think that Christian / Muslim aren't useful to indicate traits - just as liberal / conservative have a tendency to indicate traits?

Because liberal/conservative make *vast* differences, as do other cultural differences that have absolutely nothing to do with religion. A liberal Christian in England is just about as different to a right wing Republican Evangelist Christian as Ali, the man at my corner shop who sells me daily newspaper, is different to the average ISIS fruitcake killer.

I'd be friendly enough from the outset to somebody like Ali. Your USA evangelist Christians, though, frighten the fuck out of me. They are *not* my type and I don't ever want anything to do with them. I simply don't have anything in common with mad fanatics, of *any* religious variety - and, by European standards, the USA is heaving with fanatical religionists - of the Christian variety.

Jeez, Phydeaux. To get it into proportion ... I imagine you know what the average liberal, generally agnostic American thinks of the average US bible-thumper. Well, in Europe, that feeling would be magnified a hundred times - and I'm talking in the context of conservative Europeans, as well as lefties.

Right wing bible bashers in the USA generally have just *no idea* how plain, downright, dangerously lunatic they look to Europeans. They really, really don't. I'd suggest to you, Phydeaux, that if you don't believe me, you talk to some right wing Christian Europeans. But it'd be a waste of time because you'd ask a self-identified European rightwinger, get the answer I've just given you, and - despite his astonishment - instantly brush him away as a 'lefty'.

To me, the 'us' category contains atheists through to easy-going theists - by which I mean those people who are into their preferred religion but have sifted away the cruel, nasty and plainly irrational parts of it. They've let their religion go 'fuzzy', basically, the better so that it fits with modern day ideas of being reasonable and good people. Such people could be self-identified Christians, Buddhists, Muslims ... whatever. I don't care. They're in the 'decent type' group for me - they want to be nice, they want to get on with people, they don't want to be shits to this or that sort of person. The 'them' category contains Bible or Koran book-bashers who have made nastiness into a virtue. I loathe both types of 'them' and never, ever want anything to do with either.

Thank you for making my point exceeding well for me.

You have just established that europeans are not the same as americans. Fuzzy theists are not the same as fundamentals.

You, for whatever reasons you choose, choose to lump fundamentalist christians into the same camp as fundamentalist muslims. Thats your right - to characterize people as you wish. So the question becomes, Now, why won't you accept that OTHER people find there are differences between muslims and christians.

Why do you so vehemently argue there is not? When you engage in the exact same behavior, just with different target groups. Why is "your way" ..""correct"

Lol, wow, you complete missed the point of what he said, didn't you? Pathetic.

So your entire contribution to the conversation is a personal attack. You have quite an obsession with me junior birdman.