Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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I respect non smokers and win't light up if it bothers them, but, there is some real bullshit going around these days.It is utterly impossible for second hand smoke to be more dangerous to people than to the smoker himself. After all the smoker is in the closest proximity to the smoke.
There are only two reasons for bad science, for people to enforce their will on others and money. I'm thinking the money part is coming soon. After all smokers are already paying for a host of things like new stadiums, and now they want a cut for the arts. (in Ohio).
Let's go back to the first round of litigation against the tobacco companies. First the government forced them to accurately state the tar and nicotine contents on the package. Then they were accused of manipulating the tar and nicotine. What did they want, it hand written on each pack ? Each crop is a little different, that is why they blend tobaccos. Now they were given another two more parameters to deal with. Of course they had to manipulate the levels so that the numbers on the pack are truthful.
Tell you what, I admit that I wish they had never invented cigarettes. But now I like them.
Funny, right now I am not running the AC, I got one hell of an exhaust fan and I smell car exhaust from the driveway next door. This is from a 1972 Ford pickup truck, which does not have a catalytic converter. It runs perfectly and is a multiple trophy winner.
Now let's look at the next round of lawsuits that I predict. They are going to want tobacco companies to pay for ALL lung cancer whether the person ever smoked or not.
Second hand smoke, OK, I don't smoke around children, non smokers (except the ones who actually say that it doesn't bother them), and the infirm. But when I am in a restaurant paying $30-50 per person for a meal I can make at home for about $10, turn the damn vents on ! Same way with an airplane, turning down the vents saves them money, and for restaurants changing the air costs big in the heavy heating and airconditioning seasons.
I will pay extra to sit in a smoking section, but make it worthwile. Set the HVAC system up properly ! You put the vents all over the floor and the exhausts on the cieling. I should not be able to smell any more than a slight hint of a guy smoking a large skogie sitting right next to me. Always maintain a slight negative air pressure in the smoking area and you won't have a "spillage" into the non smoking section.
Now back to the coming lawsuit.
Are they going to pay deisel mechanics who, because of their job have a higher lung cancer rate than smokers. I'm sure any auto or truck mechanics have this problem to some degree. There are many other occupations that are detrimental to the lungs. Many many factory workers for example.
Are there air filters in your car and do you drive with the windows closed 365 days a year ? How often are you in a traffic jam ? There are inevitably trucks in traffic jams which do not have catalytic converters and spew hydrocarbons at an almost alarming rate compared to a modern car. They are moving slowly to curb deisel emmisions, but money is the reason, and it is actually not greed this time, it is almost common sense. To crack down on trucks right now and come up with very strict mandates would cripple the economy. Everything you buy comes off a truck, even a new truck. The consumer is laden with even more costs, this is detrimental. So much of the cost we bear to buy consumer goods is due to transportation, no wonder alot of consumer products are junk.
My Uncle was an executive at Ford and decided to buy a new Crown Victoria. This is one of their high end cars. He called the dealer (even on the A plan you go through a dealer) and asked where the floor mats were. This wasn't his department so he wanted an answer. He got one. Weight, the reason to omit the floor mats, was still based on money.
Back to the main subject, ever have any form of cancer, other than lung cancer ? Anybody who knows, knows that cancer in other organs frequently moves to the lungs. Do we have to pay for them too ?
Has anyone done a study on effectively how many cigarettes you smoke when sitting in a traffic jam for an hour in the city ?
Now let's pare down these plaintiffs. If you never drove a car, live on a farm in a remote area and don't use any tractors or other equipment that runs off fossil fuel, have no history of cancer in the family, never been to the city, don't use any unnatural products including perfume or air fresheners, basically only breathe clean fresh air except when around a smoker indoors, let's talk.
Let's talk about why this smoker didn't have the decency to not smoke around non smokers, also give your reasons for not leaving the room.
Then someone tell me why the rest of us smokers have to pay for those who are irresponsible, and, for example, smoke around children constantly ? Is it going to get to the point that people will be able to sue elder members of their family who smoked ?
Let's go out on a limb. Sue your grandfather because he smoked around you when you were little. He was the only one in the whole family and circle of friends who smoked. You lived on a farm but moved to rural Wisconson. You now live with Amish people and always breathe fresh air. You eat only heathly organically grown food and eat no refined sugar or salt.
You get lung cancer. You have the most airtight case possible.
Your Grandpa still smokes two packs of Lucky strikes a day and drinks whiskey, but only in moderation. Gets drunk every once in a great while but does drink lightly almost every day. Eats red meat and veggies, some wine or beer once in a while, but no soda or anything. Milk, booze, coffee and beer or tea once in a while. Gambles every Friday night in a smoke filled basement, where others may even be smoking blunts, which have got to be even worse, and some of them filled with pot, but he doesn't partake. He is still exposed to it in an enclosed space. He is retired from the railroad so he can afford to gamble.
Grandpa takes the stand.
L(awyer): So Mr. Jones, do you realize that your addiction to cigarettes has destroyed the life of one of your family members ?
G: Poppycock.
L: Poppycock ? what do you mean by that ?
G: Poppycock, I smoked around everyone else and they don't have lung cancer. I feel for her, she is my granddaughter, but I didn't do it. I don't see what twisted logic has brought this totally stupid court case about.
L: Didn't you know that second hand smoke is more harmful than first hand smoke.
G: Bullsh, oh, poppycock, I was the closest one to my cigarette and I don't have lung cancer.
L: OK, tell us a little about your health, for one how old are you ?
G: You Honor, May I ask the Court, and anyone else who wishes to, guess my age before I answer that question ? I am the defendant here y'know.
J: Prosecuting attorney will please guess the age of the defendant.
L: OK, hmmm plaitiff is 28, hmmmm, OK, I would say you are 75.
G: I am 91.
L: No way.
G: In the words of my grandchildren, YEAH WAY, I got my driver's license right here.
L: So do you have any breathing difficulties ? Like if you walk too far ?
G: Well yes, it's ten miles to the store and I get bored walking so I jog the rest, like half way.
L: So you jog five miles a day ?
G: No, I'm not stupid, when I get there I buy enough stuff for three days.
L: So you have a driver's license but don't drive ?
G: No, I drive.
L: Then why do you walk and jog to the store, for exercise ?
G: Exercise schmexercise, I get enough of that tending the gardens and fixin up the barn.
L: Fixing the barn ? Did the city cite your for it's condition or something ?
G: City, I don't live in the city boy, there ain't no city, this is the sticks. And as if it is any of your business, the roof was getting to look like tobacco road or something so I'm replacing it.
L: You mean you're having it fixed ?
G: Are you stupid, I said I was fixing it, I have one helper. We are going to just tear the old one off and put a new one on, and the old one gets buried. Why are you asking me this ? This is four counties away, what do you care ?
L: I'm wondering how smoking has damaged you sir.
G: Well, it doesn't seem to have. I know it does nothing for me really but I like it, so I smoke, I have a right to do that. Or has that changed ?
You see where this is going. There used to be people like that, smoked all their lives and made it into the nineties. What did they have that we don't have ?
It's the same old shit like with diabetes. They know exactly what causes it but refuse to cure it, like they should and CAN in it's early stages. They blame the smoke. It's the smoke, it's like a mantra. It is set and cannot change. Who says who is the foremost authority on a subject, or the most advanced reseacher ? More importantly who is it that sifts through all these lab reports and somes up with these ridiculous conclusions ?
My fictional repoire back there was intended to be the ultimate counterpoint, My one Grandfather lived into his seventies, and smoked cigars. I never knew the other one.
But then I know people have existed who fit my description. They might've been moving slow when they got old, but they were still moving. My Father quit smoking for a time, but went back to it but no longer inhales. He jokes that he is killing himself with his own second hand smoke. He has cut down to about a pack a week instead of two a day. I agree that can't be bad.
I am not saying that smoking is good for you, that would be stupid. What I am saying is that it seems to affect different people differently, just like any other vice. BTW I do not consider gambling a vice. I don't care what the government says, it is not. If you are any good at it you can gain from it, just don't gamble the house payment. Gambling is only a vice for those who don't know how to do it and stay within their limits. The same is true of drugs and alcohol. Smoking is the only thing I can think of that is truly a vice, because you get nothing out of it. You don't get a buzz like if you use a "substance", and if you actually learn how to gamble you could gain money. Tobacco has no such advantages.
A subject came up between me and my RL cohorts a couple of moinths ago. Who was the first one to figure out how to smoke ? I mean the first one to smoke. Maybe it was the caveman Ogg, you know the inventor of the wheel ? I could see someone actually saying "We are going to burn this stuff and inhale the smoke". When asked why, what possible answer could he give ? What is it that made this so popular ?
I don't mean peer pressure getting teens to smoke, I am talking the first person to do it and how others got it in their head to do it as well. Could it be that some leader of some tribe found some kind of pot or something and all high he said some really cool stuff, wisdom wise, and then the led, unable to find the special stuff the leader smoked decided that tobacco would work too ? Probably wasn't even called that back then, might not have been called anything for some time.
So maybe smokers are addicted. But how did it start. Kids try to emulate their Parents, maybe not in all things but in some things. I am not talking about that, that only perpetuates it. I would like some insight on how it started, how it became taxed and the focus of so much debate. Agreed that while criminal law is based on intent, tort law is not, at least not always. I don't have lung cancer and if I do get it, I am certainly not expecting a check for it, so why should I have to pay ?
Also, why should I have to line the pockets of politicians, and pay for stadia ad infinitum and fund the arts. WTF is the government putting their finger into this shit for ?
Or is it like when you see a commercial for a local utility on TV, they are a monoply. What they're doing is buying control, the more you spend, the more control you get over the content. Plain and simple.
I see this second hand smoke shit as just that, another move in redistributing the wealth. I also see alot of lawyers making alot of money. That couldn't be it could it ? Say it ain't so, Joe.
I don't mind hearing from all sides in this. Whether you agree or not, come on.
T
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