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RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 10:46:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

Someone who immaturely expects others to enable them, IS a loser. You cannot be a child forever.

In your opinion!!
I can be quite child like when it comes to punishment, its my bag.
Not for you to judge i don't think.
My kink is not your kink?
However i have never said you are wrong in your opinion just that i dont understand the selfishness in it. That is why i questioned it and hoped to understand it. I see maybe i was hoping for too much, seeing further than the end of ones nose springs to mind!

The selfishness is that of the child, who thinks the world revolves around it. The sub who continues to beat herself up after being forgiven and corrected shows the Dominant that she only cares about her feelings,and will not honor his.

In my opinion that is not strictly true. If i continue to beat myself up it is because i have let my Sir down not because i only care about my feelings.
Its interesting how you say they only care about their feelings when the impression you give is that its only your feelings that count. Just an opinion.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Caretakr)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 10:51:41 AM

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Your analogy is flawed. A puppy is not aware of what is expected. A human who consents to submit does so (or should, anyway) based on information garnered during discussion previous to submitting.
The OP finds treating a submissive like a child objectionable; I am with him on this. He expects to deal with an adult who is self-aware enough to figure out where the problem lies. I find that refreshing.

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to WyrdRich)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 10:52:35 AM

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My feelings when a sub enages in this nuerotic and counterproductive behavior, is that she is second guessing me.

She is telling me that she feels my judgement is off, and that it's her business to correct herself. Not mine. In other words, she tells me that she niether trusts, or respects me.

With all of that self punishment going on, why do you even need to bother with a Dominant? You make us superfluous.

That's selfish.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/22/2006 10:53:34 AM >

(in reply to missturbation)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 10:59:13 AM

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Ok so now im a loser and selfish. I really wish i got off on being insulted by complete strangers cos then this would be fun.
How can you presume to know what is going through a subs head when she continues to punish herself unless you discuss it with her? Maybe if you took a little time to talk to your sub / slaves about these things more you would understand them a little better.
In my opinion a Master who takes no time to understand his slave is selfish and dangerous.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Caretakr)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:04:16 AM

sapphirepleasure

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From: Land of Enchantment
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And so your response is to deem her a loser, if she struggles with forgiving herself and proclaim, "Get the fuck over yourself and deal with it, bitch." Discard her as a neurotic insect and move on to the next one?

Yes, in the ideal world none of us have difficulty letting go of our mistakes or forgiving ourselves, but in the case when a woman is struggling, you, as her Master, choose to see it as a personal affront and resort to name-calling and dismissal from service? Nice.

And now, in this forum, we're all supposed to pat you on the back and assure you that you are not a bastard, but merely looking for adult behavior? As I said in my first post, this just smacks of judgment and bitterness and totally offends me.

(in reply to Caretakr)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:05:45 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Ok so now im a loser and selfish. I really wish i got off on being insulted by complete strangers cos then this would be fun.
How can you presume to know what is going through a subs head when she continues to punish herself unless you discuss it with her? Maybe if you took a little time to talk to your sub / slaves about these things more you would understand them a little better.
In my opinion a Master who takes no time to understand his slave is selfish and dangerous.

You are trying to project my refusal to accept behavior you find difficult to justify in yourself, as my being callous.

I am a very caring and communicative individual.

At the same time, I am charged with a learship role that carries expectations of responsibility-but not the entire burden of that. And part of that responsibility lies in not encouraing negative of self damaging behaviors in one I care for.

In other words, one like yourself would either be given the choice of "getting over herself"-and moving onto a more healthy , self-loving outlook.............or be shown the door.

(in reply to missturbation)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:09:32 AM

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I understand the argument here but I just think it's *FUN* to punish my sub or slave. And every single day if neccessary!

(in reply to Caretakr)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:09:37 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sapphirepleasure

And so your response is to deem her a loser, if she struggles with forgiving herself and proclaim, "Get the fuck over yourself and deal with it, bitch." Discard her as a neurotic insect and move on to the next one?

Yes, in the ideal world none of us have difficulty letting go of our mistakes or forgiving ourselves, but in the case when a woman is struggling, you, as her Master, choose to see it as a personal affront and resort to name-calling and dismissal from service? Nice.

And now, in this forum, we're all supposed to pat you on the back and assure you that you are not a bastard, but merely looking for adult behavior? As I said in my first post, this just smacks of judgment and bitterness and totally offends me.

No. I simply look for healthy behavior to begin with, not mental illness looking for an enabler. I have dealt with this many many times-and I am no masochist. And yes, I am harsh about this, and I look for the reactions. When I see blatant denial from pushing a few buttons-it tells me this is it probably not going to work.

Like I said, I can hear a frog croaking.

< Message edited by Caretakr -- 7/22/2006 11:10:45 AM >

(in reply to sapphirepleasure)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:13:35 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation

Ok so now im a loser and selfish. I really wish i got off on being insulted by complete strangers cos then this would be fun.
How can you presume to know what is going through a subs head when she continues to punish herself unless you discuss it with her? Maybe if you took a little time to talk to your sub / slaves about these things more you would understand them a little better.
In my opinion a Master who takes no time to understand his slave is selfish and dangerous.

You are trying to project my refusal to accept behavior you find difficult to justify in yourself, as my being callous.

You are callous, you have already stated your way of dealing with ur sub who is upset about letting you down is to say get over it bitch.

I am a very caring and communicative individual.

Doesnt look that way when you are not prepared to discuss your subs feelings with her.

At the same time, I am charged with a learship role that carries expectations of responsibility-but not the entire burden of that. And part of that responsibility lies in not encouraing negative of self damaging behaviors in one I care for.

I agree but to help her deal with her feelings you might actually find you need to talk to her about it rather than telling her to get over herself.

In other words, one like yourself would either be given the choice of "getting over herself"-and moving onto a more healthy , self-loving outlook.............or be shown the door.

One like myself? You know very little about me and from what i know about you i wudnt have even stepped through your door in the first place. I as most people do need to discuss things with my Sir not be told to get over it.

I find nothing about myself hard to justify and i certainly have made no attempt to justify myself to you. The only person i answer to is my Sir.
Judgement can be good in the right context - dont judge what u dont know though.

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to Caretakr)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:17:45 AM

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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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fast reply to the general thread...

to caretakr she is a loser, and insect, and a "get over yourself bitch" kinda gal. To another dominant that put the time and effort into her, she is worth her wieght in gold.. we get what we give to the world,.. the dominant that knows this is the one that owns a good submissive that takes care of him because he takes care of her. It really is a value judgment on the part of the dominant and the submissive as to how much they value a certain trait in each other...

Someone is going to pick up caretakrs discards and make an object of art with them... I have on a few ocassions picked antiques out of the trash, in fact my desk is a 1920s teachers desk made out of mahogany that I put back together and refinished, it is worth a couple of grand now... and I put the effort in to make it more than landfill. It is rewarding to put effort into something and have it pay off. It is rewarding to put effort into a relationship and have it work. It also sucks when we put that effort in only to have it fail anyways. Sometimes it just doesn't work.. no one has control over that.. it is just the way shit happens because life just ain't fair.

Mercnbeth posted that he invested in dates with submissives and kept doing so because sooner or later it would pay back.. he now has beth.. and she is priceless to him. Someone else wouldn't have felt that way perhaps...

In the final analysis, one man's trash is another's treasure

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 7/22/2006 11:19:24 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Caretakr)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:19:36 AM

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Joined: 8/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caretakr

My feelings when a sub enages in this nuerotic and counterproductive behavior, is that she is second guessing me.

She is telling me that she feels my judgement is off, and that it's her business to correct herself. Not mine. In other words, she tells me that she niether trusts, or respects me.

With all of that self punishment going on, why do you even need to bother with a Dominant? You make us superfluous.

That's selfish.

Wow! I love this topic! Since joining CM, I've noticed a lot of submissives who LOVE to be punished, seek it out and even complain when their dominants won't punish them as THEY want them to. And, (sorry to all the submissives who love to be punished) mostly what I think is "Personality Disorder".

Who is in command here when this happens? NOT the Dominant. In the two years I have been with Him, He has never had to punish me. Why? Because I try and anticipate His needs and act on them. Do I sometimes fail.....absolutely yes. I'm getting older. I'm not as able to have all the energy I need to always take care of him the way he deserves. What happens when something goes wrong?

We usually laugh about it because it wasn't an intentional screw-up to get attention. He doesn't get all bent out of shape. I don't get bent out of shape. Live goes on. I don't like the idea of punishment and I told him so when I entered His service. He had never had a submissive who didn't crave that kind of attention, but He hated punishment as well.

Now....if I get my ass whopped or whatever, its all for fun and play. Around here, it all feels kind of nice and safe. We are two adults who love each other. Punishment is for children. If you're into Daddy stuff, maybe this works for you. Not me.

_____________________________

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to Caretakr)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:21:18 AM

Level

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*pokes head in to see this thread going well *

I would say a dominant does not "owe" a submissive punishment, or "punishment", for that matter. And a submissive that engages in melodramatics or topping from the bottom is doing neither themself nor their dominant a good service.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to missturbation)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:22:01 AM

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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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What is the name of this personality disorder, and what expertise do you bring to diagnosing such things? I do not want to be punished for anything, but seeing I am not a psychologist I wouldn't tell people they were mentally unwell because this is their kink.. just my opinion

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sunshine119)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:25:54 AM

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Joined: 6/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

fast reply to the general thread...

to caretakr she is a loser, and insect, and a "get over yourself bitch" kinda gal. To another dominant that put the time and effort into her, she is worth her wieght in gold.. we get what we give to the world,.. the dominant that knows this is the one that owns a good submissive that takes care of him because he takes care of her. It really is a value judgment on the part of the dominant and the submissive as to how much they value a certain trait in each other...

Someone is going to pick up caretakrs discards and make an object of art with them... I have on a few ocassions picked antiques out of the trash, in fact my desk is a 1920s teachers desk made out of mahogany that I put back together and refinished, it is worth a couple of grand now... and I put the effort in to make it more than landfill. It is rewarding to put effort into something and have it pay off. It is rewarding to put effort into a relationship and have it work. It also sucks when we put that effort in only to have it fail anyways. Sometimes it just doesn't work.. no one has control over that.. it is just the way shit happens because life just ain't fair.

Mercnbeth posted that he invested in dates with submissives and kept doing so because sooner or later it would pay back.. he now has beth.. and she is priceless to him. Someone else wouldn't have felt that way perhaps...

In the final analysis, one man's trash is another's treasure

I'm gun shy....... I don't dumpster dive any more, sorry.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:29:12 AM

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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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Well the submissive that you trashed probably became another man's treasure... but you will never know it probably..smiles.

You are not offending me in your views so I am a bit more objective than some posting to this thread.. I have someone that treasures me and I know my worth. My Dom has been dumped in the past, I have been dumped in the past.. treated like trash... we treasure each other... it's all good. If the one's in his past had seen the gold I do, then I wouldn't have him and vice versa

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Caretakr)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:30:17 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

What is the name of this personality disorder, and what expertise do you bring to diagnosing such things? I do not want to be punished for anything, but seeing I am not a psychologist I wouldn't tell people they were mentally unwell because this is their kink.. just my opinion

Try "Borderline Personality Disorder". I run a social service agency that works with emotionally challenged teens. Many of the young girls are always into getting into trouble so they can get punished. They always want the attention focused on them and it is a control of their environment. Then they whine and complain about being punished. If someone doesn't punish them they are apt to hurt themselves through cutting, etc.

I've seen more than one submissive demonstrate these traits. As long as they are calling the shots they are the Dominants!!! Thank goodness the majority of submissives I've seen here don't fall into this category. Just like some Dominants can actually be abusers posing, most are not abusive at all.

Just calling it like I see it.

_____________________________

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:34:39 AM

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I would never diagnose people over the internet or by word of mouth, and no psychologist I would respect would either. My best friend has worked in a similiar capacity and I have never heard her diagnose people she deals with, much less doesn't know... my opinion.,. take it for what it is worth,

It is kinda like Bill Frisk diagnosing Terry Shivo.. I didn't think that diagnosis had much value either.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to Sunshine119)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:35:45 AM

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Joined: 6/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunshine119

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

What is the name of this personality disorder, and what expertise do you bring to diagnosing such things? I do not want to be punished for anything, but seeing I am not a psychologist I wouldn't tell people they were mentally unwell because this is their kink.. just my opinion

Try "Borderline Personality Disorder". I run a social service agency that works with emotionally challenged teens. Many of the young girls are always into getting into trouble so they can get punished. They always want the attention focused on them and it is a control of their environment. Then they whine and complain about being punished. If someone doesn't punish them they are apt to hurt themselves through cutting, etc.

I've seen more than one submissive demonstrate these traits. As long as they are calling the shots they are the Dominants!!! Thank goodness the majority of submissives I've seen here don't fall into this category. Just like some Dominants can actually be abusers posing, most are not abusive at all.

Just calling it like I see it.

What really gets to me, is that this kind should be in professional therapy.

So what do they do instead? Look for a freak with a whip and a hard-on to 'fix' them.

Some people's children.

(in reply to Sunshine119)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:38:38 AM

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Julia,

You'll notice what I said in my first reply was "what I think is Personality Disorder". We all have first impressions. Just as in some cases, you have said something sounded abusive. This is my first reaction when I witness the kind of hysteria that sometimes goes on here by some begging for attention and discipline.

JMHO

_____________________________

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

RE: Getting over it - 7/22/2006 11:39:09 AM

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I don't care for corporal punishment either. Especially when the behavior has been deliberate in order to BE punished because she loves being spanked. Won't happen.

I much prefer the discipline of repeating a task until acceptable performance is achieved. Wipe on -wipe off.

Knowing that I am not pleased with a behavior should be "punishment" enough.

_____________________________

Awrabest,

Mr. Pete

Boycott Citgo

(in reply to Caretakr)

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