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RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 3:50:17 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why not both?... did you check out the link... it is very enlightening.

ps... less attention is a lot different than no attention.

Butch

You constantly misrepresent the gun problem.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 3:54:40 PM

kdsub

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Joined: 8/16/2007
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Did you read the link?... simple question... facts and the truth do not misrepresent anything... You just choose to close your ears and eyes to the children screaming and dying from gun wounds... either on purpose or by accident... why... so you can play big man with your killing toys.

_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 4:16:24 PM

JVoV

Posts: 3226
Joined: 3/9/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Opioids are killing a lot more people then guns.

Oh that makes a lot of sense...so because drugs are killing people its ok to kill them with guns too... I mean does THIS make any difference to you?

Butch

Don't you thinkthe greatest threat deserves the most attention?

In this case, I'm actually going to say no. Patients that are prescribed opiates have very few options for pain relief, and in many cases will be on medication for the rest of their lives. How do you fix that? Even medical marijuana isn't a complete replacement for opiates, although it can provide relief for certain levels of pain. Yet, that conversation is already happening in State referendums, and on a national level.

The gun conversation happens here, but not where it matters.

But what gun control laws can honor the Second Amendment, and yet still be effective, given the modern Supreme Court interpretation of the Second? Is any gun law even Constitutional, without being an Amendment? Is there overwhelming public support for any of it?

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 4:28:40 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: tamaka

Opioids are killing a lot more people then guns.

Oh that makes a lot of sense...so because drugs are killing people its ok to kill them with guns too... I mean does THIS make any difference to you?

Butch

Don't you thinkthe greatest threat deserves the most attention?

In this case, I'm actually going to say no. Patients that are prescribed opiates have very few options for pain relief, and in many cases will be on medication for the rest of their lives. How do you fix that? Even medical marijuana isn't a complete replacement for opiates, although it can provide relief for certain levels of pain. Yet, that conversation is already happening in State referendums, and on a national level.

The gun conversation happens here, but not where it matters.

But what gun control laws can honor the Second Amendment, and yet still be effective, given the modern Supreme Court interpretation of the Second? Is any gun law even Constitutional, without being an Amendment? Is there overwhelming public support for any of it?

According to most recent polls (and contrary to what we hear on here) I rollback would
be more acceptable. Any law which goes after misuse will get far more support
than the trickle down criminology. The laws we see are based on the idea
the if you stick it to the legitimate owners eventually it may affect the criminals.
The first thing that should be done is making it MANDITORY to put the info
into the data bases that address the questions.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 5:23:17 PM

Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

I just realized something I half expected some others to bring up.

First, all things considered, this guy pretty much set himself up to be caught, even with all the cameras he had in place.

Consider the DC snipers.

They were mobile, and always had a plan to get out.

Not this guy, in fact this whole incident is fairly contrary to his past behavior, except when you figure the script for diazepam.

There are a whole list of possible side effects, but when you read the warning completely, the longer an individual takes it, the odds of one of the side effects manifesting increase.

Its one of the reasons it is no longer considered a long term solution for the problems this guy claimed to have had in a court deposition.

I want to see the autopsy report to see if it was in his system at the time he died.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 6:24:36 PM

JVoV

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Joined: 3/9/2015
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Misuse of a deadly weapon often comes with a body count. There has to be a balance.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 7:51:33 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Misuse of a deadly weapon often comes with a body count. There has to be a balance.

Yes, and that price should be paid by the one who misuses it, not the 1000 who don't.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 7:54:13 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JVoV

Misuse of a deadly weapon often comes with a body count. There has to be a balance.

So does the misuse of a car, or alcohol, or medicine .

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to JVoV)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 8:14:00 PM

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So does the misuse of a car, or alcohol, or medicine .

In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here.

We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too.

Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 8:23:12 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So does the misuse of a car, or alcohol, or medicine .

In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here.

We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too.

Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns.

I am surprised your country doesn't control how many times you can breath.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 8:50:40 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I am surprised your country doesn't control how many times you can breath.

I know it's sarcasm, but technically, breathing is healthy :)

They do control where you can smoke, so that people can breathe healthy air.

I mean my point is, to reduce criminal deaths and keep people safe is not impossible like you guys said. And clearly guns is not the best solution. But just the culture of Americans. As I said, you guys choose danger. Freedom of everything is more important than safety.

For us, we feel safety equals freedom. You know, if I have to carry a gun around with me just to feel safe. I don't feel free. I feel frightened and afraid all the time because I live in a world where I might have to one day shoot someone to save my own life. That's horrible.

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 8:55:49 PM

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From: Somewhere Texas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here.

We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too.

Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns.

The US bans cars that do not meet standards, or are too powerful for the American idiots with more money than brains.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 8:59:32 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
I am surprised your country doesn't control how many times you can breath.

I know it's sarcasm, but technically, breathing is healthy :)

They do control where you can smoke, so that people can breathe healthy air.

I mean my point is, to reduce criminal deaths and keep people safe is not impossible like you guys said. And clearly guns is not the best solution. But just the culture of Americans. As I said, you guys choose danger. Freedom of everything is more important than safety.

For us, we feel safety equals freedom. You know, if I have to carry a gun around with me just to feel safe. I don't feel free. I feel frightened and afraid all the time because I live in a world where I might have to one day shoot someone to save my own life. That's horrible.

As with so many anti-gun people you don't understand that being prepared
is different from living in fear. Do you have a fire extinguisher ? Does that prove
That you live in constant fear of a fire? How can you live like that?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 9:12:44 PM

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Joined: 2/6/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you have a fire extinguisher ? Does that prove
That you live in constant fear of a fire? How can you live like that?

Fire extinguisher is like tap water though. The danger level of having one is no where close to a gun.

i mean, if a 3 yr old got hold of a fully loaded mini gun, versus some mini fire extinguisher. Which one would I freak out more? When trying to disarm the 3 yr old? Chances are, the 3 yr old could pull the trigger at me innocently, before I can stop him.

Whereas if he sprays fire extinguishing stuffs at me, it's like, okay little boy, give that back to me! Whatever!

(in reply to BamaD)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 9:19:46 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

Posts: 514
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
So does the misuse of a car, or alcohol, or medicine .

In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here.

We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too.

Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns.

Greta
I know that for many non-US citizens it's very difficult to understand the American stance in guns.
The thing you need to keep in mind is that the US was able to throw off British rule and become an independent nation because the common man in America kept guns.
Most of the soldiers in the Continental Army during the American Revolution were using their personal guns.
That is why the right to keep weapons was written into our Constitution as the 2nd Amendment a few years after the revolution.
Coincidentally, if an American is descended directly from the citizen-soldiers who fought in the American Revolution, they will be more likely to be among the Americans who own guns today.
Guns are a tool, but here they are also part of our national identity for many, because it was guns that made this nation.

You'll be hard pressed to find a nation anywhere that came into being through overpowered cars or strong drugs, so banning those steps on no ones sense of national identity.

Every time you wonder why Americans love their guns, it will help to remember that without guns there would be no America. And we really love our country.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 9:27:58 PM

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Bama, for once I can't agree with you...... ( not that I'm going to agree with greta's line of argument either !!! ) ..................but I don't live in fear, neither does saraah and we rarely bother to lock our doors. That MUST say something. I'm not sure what but we aren't the only ones around here either.

I feel this is another of those pointless arguments because each side has it's own point/s of view and will stick with them come hell or high water. Each side thinks the other is being mulish and pig-headed and maybe both sides are right.

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 9:31:36 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

Bama, for once I can't agree with you...... ( not that I'm going to agree with greta's line of argument either !!! ) ..................but I don't live in fear, neither does saraah and we rarely bother to lock our doors. That MUST say something. I'm not sure what but we aren't the only ones around here either.

I feel this is another of those pointless arguments because each side has it's own point/s of view and will stick with them come hell or high water. Each side thinks the other is being mulish and pig-headed and maybe both sides are right.

And you don't act like I live in fear either. My comment was not directed at people who can see the difference.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Dvr22999874)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 9:31:45 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind
Every time you wonder why Americans love their guns, it will help to remember that without guns there would be no America. And we really love our country.

Is this part really really really true though? If there were no guns, there would be no America eventually, I mean consider your history? That might still be an America, but perhaps a different America.

After all, America is just a country of immigrants coming in and forming their own country. Actually, taking it from the Native Americans, not criticizing. My own country is guilty of same thing. We Chinese folks overtook Singapore from the Natives too.

Seems like alot of Natives were just so far behind on modernization that, other nations with more forward thinking could over take them easier.

But also Britain being Britain. They would have eventually given up America to Americans without a fight. As they have done so with many other countries, after they realise they don't really want so many responsibilities.

(in reply to HaveRopeWillBind)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 9:35:32 PM

BamaD

Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind
Every time you wonder why Americans love their guns, it will help to remember that without guns there would be no America. And we really love our country.

Is this part really really really true though? If there were no guns, there would be no America eventually?

If there were no individual ownership of guns there never would have never been an America. Not eventually NEVER would have
would have been.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Greta75)

RE: Las Vegas shooting unfolding now - 10/9/2017 9:36:09 PM

HaveRopeWillBind

Posts: 514
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline

I can't speak for what might have happened without guns, but the fact is that it was widespread ownership of guns by citizens here that allowed the US to throw off British rule and become an independent nation.

(in reply to Greta75)

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