quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I don't disagree that it doesn't look good from the photo but it doesn't show everything and what it does show is not three dimensional.

if I am a counter-sniper, I could only make the final decision concerning effectiveness from being on the ground and being able to see the whole scene.

as distances increase from a potential target, the need for elevation decreases and snipers have killed people up to 1.5 miles away.

it will be interesting to see what precautions future concert promoters take.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I don't disagree that it doesn't look good from the photo but it doesn't show everything and what it does show is not three dimensional.

if I am a counter-sniper, I could only make the final decision concerning effectiveness from being on the ground and being able to see the whole scene.

as distances increase from a potential target, the need for elevation decreases and snipers have killed people up to 1.5 miles away.

it will be interesting to see what precautions future concert promoters take.

You're forgetting that a bullet travels in a parabolic arch. The sniper firing from a window high up will have his bullet traveling in a straight line as it leaves the muzzle but it begins to drop at a more severe angle as it slows over distance. The bullet actually drops at the same speed, 32 feet per second squared, but the relative drop compared to the forward speed of the bullet increases as the bullet slows. The snipe can shoot out in a straight line having calculated the drop, or just watch for "splash". However shooting back at the sniper in the window is more difficult because the incoming bullet is falling very quickly in relation to its forward speed.

A scoped rifle shooting a .223 is generally set up to zero at 100 or 200 yards. Say it's set up to zero at 100 yards, then that bullet will be about 3-inches low at 200 yards. An apparent drop of 3-inches in 200 yards. But then, that same bullet will have dropped to 32-inches low at 400 yards. So the bullet, in effect has dropped about two and a half feet in the second 200-yards. Someone shooting at the sniper, even if at the same elevation, sees his bullet dropping at an apparent 8-feet per second on the parabolic curve.

Then, all the sniper has to do is wiggle back away from the window a few feet which won't affect his shot in the least but the counter sniper will be trying to drop his bullets onto the sniper through the floor above.

Second, as the .223 bullet will only have about the energy left, at that range, of a .38 special, if the sniper constructs a box of simple 2x4's above him even if the counter sniper doesn't have to drop a bullet in on him through the floor above the sniper will still be safe from incoming rounds. The Marine snipers in Mogadishu Smallia used to build such a box with sandbags on the roof of the American compound and shoot skinnies off the roofs of buildings surrounding the compound with complete impunity from return fire. As the LV shooter seems to have built shooting platforms it's not unreasonable to assume a simple box on top the platform couldn't also be constructed. Of course, a simple heavy coffee table set on the shooting platform, maybe with a few couch pillows and a mattress on top it would most likely do the trick. Most professional snipers will shoot from way back in the room where a return bullet just couldn't reach them because of the bullet drop.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dvr22999874

You have to remember though that if there had been no guns, the Brits wouldn't have had them either and the war would still be going with both sides shouting rude words at the other or occaissionally throwing a rock or a spit-ball. The Aative Americans would have erected bleachers and charged admission to watch the fun.
Yeah, yeah, I have a ridiculous sense of humour . That's what they told me in the funny farm !!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Do you have a fire extinguisher ? Does that prove
That you live in constant fear of a fire? How can you live like that?

Fire extinguisher is like tap water though. The danger level of having one is no where close to a gun.

i mean, if a 3 yr old got hold of a fully loaded mini gun, versus some mini fire extinguisher. Which one would I freak out more? When trying to disarm the 3 yr old? Chances are, the 3 yr old could pull the trigger at me innocently, before I can stop him.

Whereas if he sprays fire extinguishing stuffs at me, it's like, okay little boy, give that back to me! Whatever!

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Greta a mini gun looks like this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I don't disagree that it doesn't look good from the photo but it doesn't show everything and what it does show is not three dimensional.

if I am a counter-sniper, I could only make the final decision concerning effectiveness from being on the ground and being able to see the whole scene.

as distances increase from a potential target, the need for elevation decreases and snipers have killed people up to 1.5 miles away.

it will be interesting to see what precautions future concert promoters take.

You're forgetting that a bullet travels in a parabolic arch. The sniper firing from a window high up will have his bullet traveling in a straight line as it leaves the muzzle but it begins to drop at a more severe angle as it slows over distance. The bullet actually drops at the same speed, 32 feet per second squared, but the relative drop compared to the forward speed of the bullet increases as the bullet slows. The snipe can shoot out in a straight line having calculated the drop, or just watch for "splash". However shooting back at the sniper in the window is more difficult because the incoming bullet is falling very quickly in relation to its forward speed.

A scoped rifle shooting a .223 is generally set up to zero at 100 or 200 yards. Say it's set up to zero at 100 yards, then that bullet will be about 3-inches low at 200 yards. An apparent drop of 3-inches in 200 yards. But then, that same bullet will have dropped to 32-inches low at 400 yards. So the bullet, in effect has dropped about two and a half feet in the second 200-yards. Someone shooting at the sniper, even if at the same elevation, sees his bullet dropping at an apparent 8-feet per second on the parabolic curve.

Then, all the sniper has to do is wiggle back away from the window a few feet which won't affect his shot in the least but the counter sniper will be trying to drop his bullets onto the sniper through the floor above.

Second, as the .223 bullet will only have about the energy left, at that range, of a .38 special, if the sniper constructs a box of simple 2x4's above him even if the counter sniper doesn't have to drop a bullet in on him through the floor above the sniper will still be safe from incoming rounds. The Marine snipers in Mogadishu Smallia used to build such a box with sandbags on the roof of the American compound and shoot skinnies off the roofs of buildings surrounding the compound with complete impunity from return fire. As the LV shooter seems to have built shooting platforms it's not unreasonable to assume a simple box on top the platform couldn't also be constructed. Of course, a simple heavy coffee table set on the shooting platform, maybe with a few couch pillows and a mattress on top it would most likely do the trick. Most professional snipers will shoot from way back in the room where a return bullet just couldn't reach them because of the bullet drop.

That is why most true snipers use a bigger round.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I don't disagree that it doesn't look good from the photo but it doesn't show everything and what it does show is not three dimensional.

if I am a counter-sniper, I could only make the final decision concerning effectiveness from being on the ground and being able to see the whole scene.

as distances increase from a potential target, the need for elevation decreases and snipers have killed people up to 1.5 miles away.

it will be interesting to see what precautions future concert promoters take.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75



I expect a mini gun to look like this, perfect for a three year old to handle, with real bullets:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

Greta a mini gun looks like this:

I expect a mini gun to look like this, perfect for a three year old to handle, with real bullets:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nnanji

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I don't disagree that it doesn't look good from the photo but it doesn't show everything and what it does show is not three dimensional.

if I am a counter-sniper, I could only make the final decision concerning effectiveness from being on the ground and being able to see the whole scene.

as distances increase from a potential target, the need for elevation decreases and snipers have killed people up to 1.5 miles away.

it will be interesting to see what precautions future concert promoters take.

You're forgetting that a bullet travels in a parabolic arch. The sniper firing from a window high up will have his bullet traveling in a straight line as it leaves the muzzle but it begins to drop at a more severe angle as it slows over distance. The bullet actually drops at the same speed, 32 feet per second squared, but the relative drop compared to the forward speed of the bullet increases as the bullet slows. The snipe can shoot out in a straight line having calculated the drop, or just watch for "splash". However shooting back at the sniper in the window is more difficult because the incoming bullet is falling very quickly in relation to its forward speed.

A scoped rifle shooting a .223 is generally set up to zero at 100 or 200 yards. Say it's set up to zero at 100 yards, then that bullet will be about 3-inches low at 200 yards. An apparent drop of 3-inches in 200 yards. But then, that same bullet will have dropped to 32-inches low at 400 yards. So the bullet, in effect has dropped about two and a half feet in the second 200-yards. Someone shooting at the sniper, even if at the same elevation, sees his bullet dropping at an apparent 8-feet per second on the parabolic curve.

Then, all the sniper has to do is wiggle back away from the window a few feet which won't affect his shot in the least but the counter sniper will be trying to drop his bullets onto the sniper through the floor above.

Second, as the .223 bullet will only have about the energy left, at that range, of a .38 special, if the sniper constructs a box of simple 2x4's above him even if the counter sniper doesn't have to drop a bullet in on him through the floor above the sniper will still be safe from incoming rounds. The Marine snipers in Mogadishu Smallia used to build such a box with sandbags on the roof of the American compound and shoot skinnies off the roofs of buildings surrounding the compound with complete impunity from return fire. As the LV shooter seems to have built shooting platforms it's not unreasonable to assume a simple box on top the platform couldn't also be constructed. Of course, a simple heavy coffee table set on the shooting platform, maybe with a few couch pillows and a mattress on top it would most likely do the trick. Most professional snipers will shoot from way back in the room where a return bullet just couldn't reach them because of the bullet drop.

That is why most true snipers use a bigger round.

Gravity affects a larger round just the same as a smaller round. A .308 is leaving a barrel at about 300 fps slower than a .223 so the actual drop would be more pronounced. You have to go to a .300 Win Mag to get a .308 bullet at the same velocity as a .223. The .50 is about the same velocity as a .308 and the only reason they are effective at such long ranges is because the projectile is so large the shear size retains a lot of energy at long distances. But that 1.5 mile shot mentioned earlier, with a .50 has to be aimed 254-feet high to make the shot and the bullet drops 125-feet in the last 200-yards. Not an easy shot to make without a good range finder and wind meter.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HaveRopeWillBind

Or a real mini gun...

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

though the quantitative part of it was not my strong suit, I taught biomechanics, so I have some sense of the difficulty involved in shooting accurately from ever increasing distances but the point of my replies to jv wasn't to say it was an easy peasy thing, rather just to say that the photograph of the scene doesn't capture all the possibilities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here.

We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too.

Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns.

The US bans cars that do not meet standards, or are too powerful for the American idiots with more money than brains.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoreMods

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75


In the context of my country. We ban cars that we feel are too dangerous. So many of those high powered cars in the US are not allowed on the road here.

We ban medicine or make it very difficult to get hold of without strict criteria and prescription from beyond just general practitioners. They may need specialists. Many off the shelves medicine in the US are not legal here off the shelves too.

Technically, we do apply everything fairly. Not attacking only guns.

The US bans cars that do not meet standards, or are too powerful for the American idiots with more money than brains.

Also you register cars, and require a license to own one.
It's strange how all of the second amendment fundamentalists who've used the daesh automotive attacks elsewhere to "prove" that gun control doesn't prevent deaths are cool with cars and trucks being regulated like that, but think it's appalling that attempts are made to do the same with firearms.