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Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 12:44:48 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

The Latest: Gaming firm helping police in Kansas shooting

The Latest on officer shooting, killing man while investigating false report (all times local):

1:40 p.m.

A spokeswoman says a company that runs online gaming tournaments is assisting authorities as they investigate the fatal shooting by a police officer of a Kansas man.

UMG Gaming operates online gaming tournaments, including one for the Call of Duty game.

UMG Vice President Shannon Gerritzen said in an email that the company is "doing everything we can to assist the authorities."

Authorities are investigating whether the shooting of 28-year-old Andrew Finch in Wichita stemmed from someone making up a false report to get a SWAT team to descend upon a home. The practice known as "swatting" is more common among online gamers.

Police have said they were called to Finch's home Thursday by a false report of a homicide and hostage situation and an officer shot him.


I had heard of this happening but thought it was nothing more than urban myths, however:

quote:

Swatting is an internet prank in which someone calls the cops with a fake story about a violent crime in progress, often involving hostages, in an attempt to spark a massive police response. The potentially devastating prank method has gained particular traction among gaming communities and the FBI estimates that some 400 cases occur annually.
source

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI
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RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 1:55:25 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

The Latest: Gaming firm helping police in Kansas shooting

The Latest on officer shooting, killing man while investigating false report (all times local):

1:40 p.m.

A spokeswoman says a company that runs online gaming tournaments is assisting authorities as they investigate the fatal shooting by a police officer of a Kansas man.

UMG Gaming operates online gaming tournaments, including one for the Call of Duty game.

UMG Vice President Shannon Gerritzen said in an email that the company is "doing everything we can to assist the authorities."

Authorities are investigating whether the shooting of 28-year-old Andrew Finch in Wichita stemmed from someone making up a false report to get a SWAT team to descend upon a home. The practice known as "swatting" is more common among online gamers.

Police have said they were called to Finch's home Thursday by a false report of a homicide and hostage situation and an officer shot him.


I had heard of this happening but thought it was nothing more than urban myths, however:

quote:

Swatting is an internet prank in which someone calls the cops with a fake story about a violent crime in progress, often involving hostages, in an attempt to spark a massive police response. The potentially devastating prank method has gained particular traction among gaming communities and the FBI estimates that some 400 cases occur annually.
source

Doesn't just happen online. Anti gun groups encourage their members to swat anyone they see practicing open carry even in states where it is legal.
Not giving the cop a pass, but whoever engaged in swating should also be
prosecuted.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 2:12:49 PM   
WhoreMods


Posts: 10691
Joined: 5/6/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

The Latest: Gaming firm helping police in Kansas shooting

The Latest on officer shooting, killing man while investigating false report (all times local):

1:40 p.m.

A spokeswoman says a company that runs online gaming tournaments is assisting authorities as they investigate the fatal shooting by a police officer of a Kansas man.

UMG Gaming operates online gaming tournaments, including one for the Call of Duty game.

UMG Vice President Shannon Gerritzen said in an email that the company is "doing everything we can to assist the authorities."

Authorities are investigating whether the shooting of 28-year-old Andrew Finch in Wichita stemmed from someone making up a false report to get a SWAT team to descend upon a home. The practice known as "swatting" is more common among online gamers.

Police have said they were called to Finch's home Thursday by a false report of a homicide and hostage situation and an officer shot him.


I had heard of this happening but thought it was nothing more than urban myths, however:

quote:

Swatting is an internet prank in which someone calls the cops with a fake story about a violent crime in progress, often involving hostages, in an attempt to spark a massive police response. The potentially devastating prank method has gained particular traction among gaming communities and the FBI estimates that some 400 cases occur annually.
source

Why do you think Anita Sarkeesian was so worried about the fact that she got doxed during that Gamergate fiasco the other year?

_____________________________

On the level and looking for a square deal.

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RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 2:43:00 PM   
bounty44


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Joined: 11/1/2014
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we're missing the most crucial element to the story that the article only briefly touched on.

how did the guy end up being shot at such that he could be killed in the first place?

the article almost makes it seem like he just opened the front door and "blam!"

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 3:20:54 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

we're missing the most crucial element to the story that the article only briefly touched on.

how did the guy end up being shot at such that he could be killed in the first place?

the article almost makes it seem like he just opened the front door and "blam!"



I noticed that as well, however, with the call being a murder and hostage situation, there is a good chance the officers responding might have been over zealous, or over cautious.

I also agree that the one that made the prank call should be prosecuted for wrongful homicide if not outright murder one.

_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to bounty44)
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RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 5:05:36 PM   
Edwird


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Joined: 5/2/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Anti gun groups encourage their members to swat anyone they see practicing open carry even in states where it is legal.


The OP gave a link to what he was referring to. You did not, because you are FOS, as always.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 5:12:33 PM   
Greta75


Posts: 9968
Joined: 2/6/2011
Status: offline
FR
Why isn't there like 20 years of jail sentence for this? Should be easy to trace to the person who call the police. I hope police reports are not anonymous in the US.

These are things that is uniquely America again.

See if we got report of some serious homicidal or hostage situation. Being gun free, the police knows, all the bad guys got are knives.

They wouldn't freak out and shoot before being shot. Police constantly wrongly shooting innocent people are purely caused by the police fearing their own lives as everybody has guns. And this will always keep happening in a gun filled country.

Price of guns.




(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 5:31:44 PM   
vincentML


Posts: 9980
Joined: 10/31/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Anti gun groups encourage their members to swat anyone they see practicing open carry even in states where it is legal.


The OP gave a link to what he was referring to. You did not, because you are FOS, as always.


Bama says he doesn't want to give the police a "pass" but he often succeeds in doing just that. My opinion: not much of a civil libertarian is our boy Bama but very much enamoured of authoritarianism.

_____________________________

vML

Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter. ~ MLK Jr.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 6:43:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Anti gun groups encourage their members to swat anyone they see practicing open carry even in states where it is legal.


The OP gave a link to what he was referring to. You did not, because you are FOS, as always.


Bama says he doesn't want to give the police a "pass" but he often succeeds in doing just that. My opinion: not much of a civil libertarian is our boy Bama but very much enamoured of authoritarianism.


I went back and counted the words I used that could be seen as defending the cop by any rational person.
e total number was zero.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to vincentML)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 8:08:20 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961

quote:

The Latest: Gaming firm helping police in Kansas shooting

The Latest on officer shooting, killing man while investigating false report (all times local):

1:40 p.m.

A spokeswoman says a company that runs online gaming tournaments is assisting authorities as they investigate the fatal shooting by a police officer of a Kansas man.

UMG Gaming operates online gaming tournaments, including one for the Call of Duty game.

UMG Vice President Shannon Gerritzen said in an email that the company is "doing everything we can to assist the authorities."

Authorities are investigating whether the shooting of 28-year-old Andrew Finch in Wichita stemmed from someone making up a false report to get a SWAT team to descend upon a home. The practice known as "swatting" is more common among online gamers.

Police have said they were called to Finch's home Thursday by a false report of a homicide and hostage situation and an officer shot him.


I had heard of this happening but thought it was nothing more than urban myths, however:

quote:

Swatting is an internet prank in which someone calls the cops with a fake story about a violent crime in progress, often involving hostages, in an attempt to spark a massive police response. The potentially devastating prank method has gained particular traction among gaming communities and the FBI estimates that some 400 cases occur annually.
source


Looking at several boards I find that many people think it has to be the cop who is criminally wrong.
Several others who think that only the swatter can be criminally wrong.
But practically none who can understand that both can.


_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to jlf1961)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 8:54:04 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jlf1961


You were once a law officer yourself. Help me to understand.

I only got "rustled up" a few times, when I was young and stupid, etc.

But even before that, I saw how cops dealt with the worst. I didn't get the billy club, because I wasn't that stupid, (never got officially arrested, actually), but I saw cops being a tad eager, at times, in subduing subjects.

The difference between then and now is that the prior arrestees came out of the hospital, whereas now they come out of the morgue, "standard procedure" then vs. now.

It's almost as though a hole in the head is more acceptable than a battered head. Believe me, this is not ALL on the police. I know that. 'Who runs the show?" etc.

Is this something that could be dealt with by better police training?

Or one could ask; why does modern police training result in more deaths per attempted arrest than police training 40 years ago, crude as things were back then?

(in reply to jlf1961)
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RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 9:02:07 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
Joined: 3/8/2006
Status: offline
Maybe because those being arrested now have better weapons and are much more violent than those arrested in the past. Police officers have to respond accordingly.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 9:16:05 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline
That's a great answer as to why so many unarmed people are subject to street execution, right?

All we have to do is tell the cub police is that everybody out there has a howitzer, so come out blasting.

"Well, I 'thought' he had a pinwheel or a .38, or remote control that looked like a bomb," because their police training taught them that if you slam a door down and he/she looks up in surprise, that is probable cause, which in this modern world being that "probable cause" gets to "justifiable homicide" lickity split.

< Message edited by Edwird -- 12/29/2017 9:28:38 PM >

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 9:19:52 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Maybe because those being arrested now have better weapons and are much more violent than those arrested in the past. Police officers have to respond accordingly.

Of course is more risk in being a cop.
On the other hand I have had two confrontations with the police.
One was a miscommunication.
A person noticed I was armed and panicked.
Cops showed up and knew I wasn't a threat but wanted to
ask me what I saw. I kept my hands where they could see
them, and right off they said they was not armed. At that point
I pulled my coat open and showed them that I was.
I held my coat open and let they take the gun.
We talked a while the person who panicked was brought down
and everything was cleared up.
The other occasion was when it seems I was swatted with the claim
That I was in illegal position of full auto weapons.
This time it was not local cops.
Both times I kept my hands in the open, did as I was told and didn't panic.
Neither time were they anything but courteous.
Could be that Edwirds attitude influenced things.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to servantforuse)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 9:26:12 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwird

That's a great answer as to why so many unarmed people are subject to street execution, right?

All we have to do is tell the cub police is that everybody out there has a howitzer, so come out blasting.

"Well, I 'thought' he had a pinwheel or a .38, or remote control that looked like a bomb," because their police training taught them that if you slam a door down and he/she looks up in surprise, that is probable cause (for simple temporary questioning), which in this modern world being that "probable cause" get's to "justifiable homicide" lickity split.

We don't have all the details yet.
The cops showed up at a scene where they were told that there were hostages covered in gas.
He may or may not have made a move that looked like
grabbing a weapon. In that situation (and I am not saying it is ) how long do you wait?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 9:33:12 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD (Emphasis DaddySatyr)

We don't have all the details yet.
The cops showed up at a scene where they were told that there were hostages covered in gas.
He may or may not have made a move that looked like
grabbing a weapon. In that situation (and I am not saying it is ) how long do you wait?





All cops are racist and therefore, are worthy of nothing more than contempt. They're sub-human and have no right to go home to their family at night; in direct contrast to up-standing criminals and such.

So, to answer your question, the "rules of engagement" should be changed to:

"An officer is not allowed to discharge his/her weapon until after they are wounded (dead is preferable so as to prove they should have been in fear for their life)."

(/sarcasm)



Peace,


Michael


_____________________________

A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to BamaD)
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RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 9:40:33 PM   
Edwird


Posts: 3558
Joined: 5/2/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Maybe because those being arrested now have better weapons and are much more violent than those arrested in the past. Police officers have to respond accordingly.

Of course is more risk in being a cop.
On the other hand I have had two confrontations with the police.
One was a miscommunication.
A person noticed I was armed and panicked.
Cops showed up and knew I wasn't a threat but wanted to
ask me what I saw. I kept my hands where they could see
them, and right off they said they was not armed. At that point
I pulled my coat open and showed them that I was.
I held my coat open and let they take the gun.
We talked a while the person who panicked was brought down
and everything was cleared up.
The other occasion was when it seems I was swatted with the claim
That I was in illegal position of full auto weapons.
This time it was not local cops.
Both times I kept my hands in the open, did as I was told and didn't panic.
Neither time were they anything but courteous.

Could be that Edwirds attitude influenced things.


Of course. We had a nice discussion. The police told me that they removed the powder, but left the lead, knowing you couldn't tell the difference.

In actuality, I know a few good police persons, we work the same venues. I don't work those venues anymore, but it has gotten back to me that some of my LE live show partners are as perplexed as I am about this latest "instant death sentence" thing came into process.

They recognize it as "something new" themselves.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 9:42:54 PM   
MercTech


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One huge objection to SWAT teams, from their inception, has been that a SWAT unit is militarizing a police force. It seems predictable that a militarized unit will act like a military unit.

When is a violent home invasion justified? The statistics on hostage situations show that going in hot and firing ends up with hostages dead the majority of the time.

Set up hard points to cover all entrances and announce for the residents to come out. If they don't...
Killing all utilities and tossing in CS gas and wait for the people in the house to come out sounds more sensible to me.

(in reply to DaddySatyr)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 10:00:08 PM   
Edwird


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A guy caring for autistic people got shot in the leg for trying to protect an autistic person the police were trying to shoot dead, but they at least hit target right with the big guy on his knees and waving arms and saying "don't shoot!"

If at least three different things about this episode doesn't point out that there is a big shortfall in police training, then I don't know what would.

(in reply to Edwird)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Why this hasnt hit the boards is beyond me - 12/29/2017 11:58:12 PM   
jlf1961


Posts: 14840
Joined: 6/10/2008
From: Somewhere Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MercTech

One huge objection to SWAT teams, from their inception, has been that a SWAT unit is militarizing a police force. It seems predictable that a militarized unit will act like a military unit.

When is a violent home invasion justified? The statistics on hostage situations show that going in hot and firing ends up with hostages dead the majority of the time.

Set up hard points to cover all entrances and announce for the residents to come out. If they don't...
Killing all utilities and tossing in CS gas and wait for the people in the house to come out sounds more sensible to me.



Yep, cs would do the trick, toss in a few cannisters and wait....


In case you did not know, SWAT teams were formed to deal with hostage situations, and special situations that are out side the norm for day to day patrol officers.

Aside from the unit commander who makes the ultimate decision to force a breach, there is a negotiator who's job it is to find out exactly what kind of threat they are facing, and who the unit commander depends on in making his decision to force the breach.

One of the incidents that started the thinking of creating special police units that were more heavily armed than the average patrol officer was the University of Texas sniper incident, when the sniper had weapons that were longer range than any police were issued.

The most driving force in the creation of these units was the proliferation of drug trafficking among street gangs and organized crime, and the increased necessity for 'no knock warrants.'

It must also be noted that the most individuals arrested during these types of raids end up facing drug and weapons charges, because in 8 out of 10 cases, the weapons found during the search are illegal to own in the US to begin with or possessed illegally, thus eliminating the 'get rid of the private guns' argument.

It also must be pointed out that the US was not the first country to use SWAT teams.


Edited to add:



quote:

Dec 30 2017, 1:22 am ET
Los Angeles man arrested in ‘swatting’ call that preceded fatal police shooting in Kansas




Los Angeles police arrested a 25-year-old man in a suspected "swatting" hoax 911 call in Kansas that ended in the fatal police shooting of an unarmed man.

The LAPD took Tyler Barriss of Los Angeles into custody in that city on Friday afternoon, on a fugitive warrant stemming from the Thursday evening incident in Kansas, a spokesman for the Los Angeles Police Department said.

Police in Wichita fatally shot a man identified by family members as Andrew Finch, 28, after officers responded to a hoax 911 call, police in Kansas said.

source


_____________________________

Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some grenades, don't you think?

You cannot control who comes into your life, but you can control which airlock you throw them out of.

Paranoid Paramilitary Gun Loving Conspiracy Theorist AND EQUAL OPPORTUNI

(in reply to MercTech)
Profile   Post #: 20
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