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RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 6:17:34 AM   
Padriag


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Joined: 3/30/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirseeksslave

In my eyes, it is more about being a worthy Master as this will attract a worthy slave -- my question is how does one show a slave he is worthy of owning them?

I'll start by saying you could learn a lot from a peacock.

As has been pointed out by others, you really have two questions here.  One is about showing your own qualities and the other about attracting a slave.  But the two are closely related.

A male peacock attracts a mate by showing off his bright plummage.  The larger his fan of brightly colored eyespots, the more likely he is to attract a mate.

So is the female peacock just being superficial?  Yes and no.

The zoologists will tell you that in order for the male to have a large fan he has to be healthy, well fed (which requires a certain strength), and much of this stems from having good genes which will be passed on to his progeny.

So does the female peacock consider all this.  No.  She's attracted to the bright plumage... and the more impressive the better.  But does that mean she's shallow... not quite.

Nature and evolution has built into things such that that brightly plumed male is most likely to produce offspring with the female that will survive, thanks to his good genes.  The female, through that same process became more attracted to those brightly plumed males.  Over time female peacocks became geneticly predisposed towards those brightly plumed males, though I'm sure the peacocks themselves are entirely unaware of this.  Oddly, men being attracted to curvy women with large breasts has a similar origin (wide hips and large breasts indicates a higher probability of being able to successfully bear children... see, we aren't just being superficial after all.)

Now submissives aren't necessarily looking for a good father with good genes.  But they are looking for a good owner and there are qualities they believe indicate that.  So to answer the first half of your question, want to know if you possess qualities in their eyes that make you a worthy owner, then I suggest you pay careful attention to the things here and elsewhere submissives (particularly of the type you wish to attract) list as being important qualities in a dominant.  Often you hear being honest and reliable at or near the top of the list, among others.  I'll leave that to you to research yourself and determine what qualities the kind of slave you deem worthy of being owned is looking for and then, whether you possess those qualties or not.

But then we come to the second half of your question, how do you show it... how do you show your "plummage"?  The answer to that is not to be found in profiles or brief displays, we have it much tougher than the peacock.  For us it has to be seen in our behavior, our daily lives.  You may say you are honest, but is this visible in your life?  And you say you are reliable and dependable, but what in your daily behavior gives evidence of this?  You may say you are financially stable, but how can this be seen in how you live?  In short, whatever qualities you posses that you believe make you a worthy owner, a honorable man, or anything else you may aspire too, for others to believe it or respect it in you they must first be able to see it, it must be tangible to them.  In what way are you, or are you not, doing this is the question you need to be asking yourself.

Someone once asked me about what it meant to be honorable.  They got an essay in reply.  An important point of that essay was this.  All codes of honor are in fact codes of behavior and all of them have as their purpose one thing.  To convey to someone else, through your behavior, that you can be trusted and relied upon.  Being honorable is not simply a matter of integrity, of being honest and dependable... it is a matter of being visibly so through your behavior.  It is this behavior, above all else, that is the evidence of who we truly are.  Or as Emerson put it, "What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say."

For the peacock it is simply a matter of having a flashy tail... for us it is a matter of behavior.  Ours may be a more difficult path, but it is no less important for us to be visible to those we wish to attract.  And in that, we (dominants) could all learn a lot from the peacock.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to Sirseeksslave)
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RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 6:31:57 AM   
leathersmith


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All of the "unworthy" subs were sent to you for a reason. There is no coincidence in this. Consider it a training for you.       " Experience keeps a dear school but fools will in no other", or at least that is my opinion after 56 yrs of attendance.
"wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then" may be a better expression


(in reply to Sirseeksslave)
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RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 7:23:37 AM   
xBullx


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Greetings Joseph,

I see that you are capable of determining my state of euphoria or frustration through my words, but not the actual intent of my message. I find this interesting. So perhaps in changing the format of my text I will be able to reach everyone. It seems though, that some actually understand my views. Will they then get lost in the alteration?

Since you wish to again draw my attention to your vocabulary I’ll explain the comment I made. Your extended vocabulary and grammatical ability doesn’t impress me. Some may see it as a weapon. (Perhaps my guns aren’t as big, but tactics can overcome superior firepower.) As for the opinion comment I was simply stating that as for my opinion or even your opinions for that matter there is an old saying, “opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and some people are one. ”It was probably my misuse of the Schwartzenhiemergobbledinger play. My apologies for the suspected misspelling of this word. I did know that spiel was German for play. Could I possibly obtain a half credit?

I myself choose the particular format of writing I deem most probable of accomplishing my desired result. If I had intended my secretary order flowers I would have even expressed a floral choice or possibly asked her opinion on the matter, she is a rather accomplished gardener and her matters in etiquette are well versed. I believe that should also cover my communication choice for ordering the field help you assume I have. Perhaps all us hicks from Iowa are farmers or farm laborers. We certainly live in a mythical land of enchantment. Wait, sorry to those within the borders of New Mexico, yours truly is the land of enchantment. I like it there.

I also choose not to answer your questions as to why I do something as it had little to do with this thread and in mine opinion your actually intentions were far removed from the discovery of my answer. Your objectives are subtle but not unseen.

So as for the clarity within your own posts I am unable to ascertain whether I am a hunk of solid mass, an immovable object, or simply an inanimate mass of  “no” substance. That is something that lies within the sphere of your own opinions though and I like it there. It is nice that the highly educated such as yourself find us wee folk entertaining though, it simply wonderful to be found useful. Don’t you just have to love spin. Look I can do it too.

You have neither put me out nor offended me. You did manage to clarify yourself in my eyes and the eyes of several (perhaps many) others. It must have been your grammatical format. I have to do some damn manual labor to do now, us poor Iowans seem to have to contend with that. (smiles, also amused) As I am sure that you will have face saving conjecture to establish in response to my post so I’ll check back later. But if in fact you did truly only wish to obtain personal dialogue and expression of thought from me, you are welcome to email me through collarme, you are not blocked.

Live well,

Bull

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 7:38:13 AM   
xBullx


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Tal Padriag,

Excellent post. I see where your only reference to the word worthy is how a man viewed himself. Thanks for your shared thoughts.

Live well,

Bull

(in reply to Padriag)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 7:47:34 AM   
LordODiscipline


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Bull:
 
You see communication as a means of competition - I see it as a means of education (of myself and of others) and as an amusement.
 
Humor is just humor if it is taken as such as being defensive neither makes and taking offense neither makes you appear to be "better" or "worse" - just insecure.
 
If I had intention beyond a simple laugh and gathering of information, I would surely make that clear and not be joking as much (people who read my writings on a regular basis know this to be a fact, and I did not expect you to... but, I did explain it to you)
 
As I mentioned - my vocabulary is simply the way I think (and, I did ask you if this reason is "why" you write the way that you do)... and, it not a "weapon" (I find that slightly amusing - imagine a 'ten syllable salvo') 
 
As ex-military, I can say without reservation - that would be less than tactically effective and strategically non-supportive of ground troops.
 
Anyhow... you assume way to much in your defensive posturing...
 
Like:
1. I am from the city? (I am from a town of about 75 people - I live in the city...nothing magical there, and certainly nothing would support a prejudice as you suggested - as a matter of fact, I am looking toward moving back to a country setting)
2. I am using words as a means of attack? I am less subtle, do not use humor and am rather direct when it is something I am upset about or 'intend injury'<---- on lineism - as I have never maimed a soul from the words I employ.
3. I am about as "subtle" as a train locomotive... unless someone reads into what I am saying more than is intended.
4. The comments about 'animate' and 'inanimate' objects were not directed as an insult... where I come from they are commonly referred to as 'humour'. Again - if I have something to say, I say it rather direclty.
5. If you want to state that you do not desire to respond - a simple "screw you" would generally not be taken as an invitation - I would accept it with good graces and laugh it off  (I do not care)
6. If you want to start a dialogue - please do.. I find you interesting - if overly defensive... and, that is how I have started some of my 'bestestest freindships' with people on line (one in Ames, Iowa in fact)
 
~J



quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Greetings Joseph,

I see that you are capable of determining my state of euphoria or frustration through my words, but not the actual intent of my message. I find this interesting. So perhaps in changing the format of my text I will be able to reach everyone. It seems though, that some actually understand my views. Will they then get lost in the alteration?

Since you wish to again draw my attention to your vocabulary I’ll explain the comment I made. Your extended vocabulary and grammatical ability doesn’t impress me. Some may see it as a weapon. (Perhaps my guns aren’t as big, but tactics can overcome superior firepower.) As for the opinion comment I was simply stating that as for my opinion or even your opinions for that matter there is an old saying, “opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and some people are one. ”It was probably my misuse of the Schwartzenhiemergobbledinger play. My apologies for the suspected misspelling of this word. I did know that spiel was German for play. Could I possibly obtain a half credit?

I myself choose the particular format of writing I deem most probable of accomplishing my desired result. If I had intended my secretary order flowers I would have even expressed a floral choice or possibly asked her opinion on the matter, she is a rather accomplished gardener and her matters in etiquette are well versed. I believe that should also cover my communication choice for ordering the field help you assume I have. Perhaps all us hicks from Iowa are farmers or farm laborers. We certainly live in a mythical land of enchantment. Wait, sorry to those within the borders of New Mexico, yours truly is the land of enchantment. I like it there.

I also choose not to answer your questions as to why I do something as it had little to do with this thread and in mine opinion your actually intentions were far removed from the discovery of my answer. Your objectives are subtle but not unseen.

So as for the clarity within your own posts I am unable to ascertain whether I am a hunk of solid mass, an immovable object, or simply an inanimate mass of  “no” substance. That is something that lies within the sphere of your own opinions though and I like it there. It is nice that the highly educated such as yourself find us wee folk entertaining though, it simply wonderful to be found useful. Don’t you just have to love spin. Look I can do it too.

You have neither put me out nor offended me. You did manage to clarify yourself in my eyes and the eyes of several (perhaps many) others. It must have been your grammatical format. I have to do some damn manual labor to do now, us poor Iowans seem to have to contend with that. (smiles, also amused) As I am sure that you will have face saving conjecture to establish in response to my post so I’ll check back later. But if in fact you did truly only wish to obtain personal dialogue and expression of thought from me, you are welcome to email me through collarme, you are not blocked.

Live well,

Bull


_____________________________

"Anyone who thinks they're important is usually just a pompous moron who can't deal with his or her own pathetic insignificance and the fact that what they do is meaningless and inconsequential."
William Thomas

(in reply to xBullx)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 8:34:27 AM   
Lordandmaster


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It works both ways, you know.  I find that when someone is constantly complaining that his or her viewpoint isn't being taken seriously, that person needs to adjust to life on the big bad internet.  If you're going to state your opinions publicly, be prepared for some unexpected and perhaps uncomplimentary reponses to them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MmakeMme

You can disagree (with any post including this one) of course, but there is something to be said for courtesy.

(in reply to MmakeMme)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 8:48:00 AM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
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I think all masters should prove their worthiness in tournaments, like they did in the old days.  Everyone knows that "old-fashioned BDSM values" involve men in armor, jousting and swordplay, and a dungeon in every basement...

--M

(in reply to PiercedDaz)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 4:57:30 PM   
xBullx


Posts: 4206
Joined: 10/8/2005
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Tal Joseph,

I am going to make this very short. We have hijacked this thread well beyond what the others should have to tollerate. I am not going to posture against you any further, We could compare DD214's, Scholastic Transcripts, personal history or whatever. Just trust me, I can rebutt your post and then you'll return the favor yet again and then again, I have no intention to take this any further. Good luck in your studies of us hick types. Surely you'll find more competent models than I.

Live well,

Bull

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/9/2006 6:21:33 PM   
FrankAr


Posts: 817
Joined: 10/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sirseeksslave

In my eyes, it is more about being a worthy Master as this will attract a worthy slave -- my question is how does one show a slave he is worthy of owning them?


Tal Sirseekslave,

I am just ME, and I tell others, slaves/subs/Doms/Dommes/Masters, that I am just me.  How do I attract a worthy slave?  I have no concern about attracting someone, they will like me for whom I am now and 10 years from now, simple and straight to the point.  You don't like me now, how the hell are you going to like me in 10 years, when I am the same Male. 

Different slaves are attracted to different men, easy.  For every massochistic slave , there is a Master whom will guide that slave to the best of her abilities.  Many slaves out there, pick the wrong Master, just seeing the words upon the screen and then falling in love with the Mills and Boon crap thinking in their heads.  Some slaves adjust, some that don't fall into a mental crevice and then try to blame someone else of the fact.  Not everyone is perfect, we are just human.

The measure of a Master comes through their ability to adapt to situations, just like the value of a slave and her adaptions to situations.  Many people have their views, get a 100 people and you can maybe get 100 different answers, no one can live within another shoes.

Be well and take care.

Master Frank Ar.


< Message edited by FrankAr -- 12/9/2006 6:22:41 PM >

(in reply to Sirseeksslave)
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RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 8:08:26 AM   
Rover


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Joined: 6/28/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: xBullx

Tal and or greetings John,

Like I said, a free woman may do as she chooses as she is free. I will note that if she were to walk up to me and tell me "you seem a worthy fellow, I think I'd like to make you my master." This woman would be met with an empty smile and a nod of goodday. If you are bent on being found worthy, then so be it. You are welcome to live as you choose. If your intent is to trip me up on a word spin, don't bother. I get that all to often. The word worthiness, in this case it may simply be a case of semantics, but you have your beliefs and I have mine. I ws simply offering my thoughts on a subject. You and many others may in fact not like my views. There are in turn many that do. As you are asking questions, I'm attempting to answer.

Live well,

Bull 


Thanks for your reply, Bull.  In return I note the following:
 
1.  The scenario you mentioned isn't very realistic.  Though to play along, I suspect that any stranger (male or female, slave or Master, Gorean, BDSM, vanilla, gay, etc.) blurting out to another stranger "you seem a worthy fellow, I think I'd like to make you my master" [or slave, or husband, or wife, or partner, etc.] would get about the same response.  We'd all think they were nuts.
 
So lets stick with a more realistic scenario, since you and I live in the real world.  Let's say that two people (in this case, a Gorean slave and Master since that's what I'm trying to understand) know each other reasonably well.  I understand that Gorean slaves beg a Master's collar, but it works the other way around as well.  In the course of the decision making process of determining whether to beg a Gorean Master's collar (or accept the collar of a BDSM Dominant), how can it be that a slave does not consider the "worthiness" of their potential new Master?  It would seem to me an impossibility, though I'm open to your interpretation as to how they would do so.
 
2.  What I am "bent" upon doing isn't in evidence (since I haven't said anything about what I am bent upon doing).  I have given you the opportunity to explain yourself, rather than make prejorative and presumptive statements about things I cannot possibly know without asking.  I would expect that an honorable man would offer me the same courtesy in return.
 
3.  My intent isn't to "trip you up" on anything.  I fail to see how asking you to explain your meaning in your own words is some kind of "trap".  Admittedly, you've made a theoretical statement that I do not presently comprehend.  And based upon your reply, in your own words, I'll ascertain for myself whether that theory is plausible, compatible with reality, or just a bit of role play that you find personally pleasing (there's nothing wrong with role play). 
 
4.  Thus far, I'm in agreement with you that this may be a case of semantics, though I'm open to logical information you may supply.  In my experience, reality dictates that short of arranged marriages or literal trade in human beings, everyone judges their potential partner's "worthiness".  Even after making a commitment, I see more than a few that judge their partner "unworthy" for reasons meaningful to themselves.  And I see that in all lifestyles.  So I tend to trust what I see and know as realistic. 
 
If, as you and I agree may be the case, this is simply a matter of semantics, then what is the statement (paraphrasing) "Gorean slaves don't judge their Masters worthy"?  It cannot be factually accurate.
 
John
 
P.S. - Apologies for my tardy reply.  Seems my account encountered a rare anomoly in which I was denied access to the reply, quote and forward tabs.

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to xBullx)
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RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 8:26:15 AM   
starshineowned


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quote:

In the course of the decision making process of determining whether to beg a Gorean Master's collar (or accept the collar of a BDSM Dominant), how can it be that a slave does not consider the "worthiness" of their potential new Master?  It would seem to me an impossibility, though I'm open to your interpretation as to how they would do so.


Greetings..~smiles~

Think maybe can help here Rover Sir but am sure will be corrected if am wrong.

It can happen that way because Until that girl has that acceptance by the Master, (I will take you)..she is not considered a slave..she is considered a Free woman with a slave heart, desires, etc. So in essence it is not a slave to a Gorean that has come to find that Master worthy in their eyes to beg the collar but a Free woman wanting to become slave. Once she has been accepted and is then Owned..she is now slave, and it is her now that must continue to prove her worthiness to the Owner in order to continue to be owned. I will assume that if the slave at some later time found the Owner not worthy in her eyes..she'd act on it and beg release or just bolt..but the Owner is not going to change during that time they own the slave in order to cater to whatever it might be that the slave feels, wants, thinks needs to be altered in order to keep her viewing the Owner as "worthy".

This isn't a Gorean issue. It's just how some view what a M/s dynamic should be.

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Rover)
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RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 9:04:25 AM   
Rover


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Thanks for the contribution, starshine.  I cannot fathom that, as you stated, this isn't a "Gorean issue" as I have never heard or read of such a thing in BDSM.  Not that I have heard or read everything, but I do get around and would have expected that if it were even remotely common I would have run into it by now.  And while I can understand the underlying theory, I'm having difficulty appreciating its meaning.
 
For the sake of argument, let's accept that she's a free woman when doing the judging, until such time as she's collared whereupon she is "transformed" (by means not stated) into a slave.  Evidently that is a meaningful distinction for reasons I do not understand. 
 
But if that distinction is meaningful, then how is it that a Gorean Master would consent to a girl begging for his collar, if she was not yet a slave (ie: he desires a slave but is consenting to collar a free woman)?
 
It would seem like a theoretical Catch-22.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 72
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 9:24:24 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
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From: Texas
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Rover Sir..

quote:

as I have never heard or read of such a thing in BDSM. 
Am not sure what BDSM just like Gorean has anything to do with being requirements for Master/slave. Perhaps you can enlighten me on that aspect.

quote:

For the sake of argument, let's accept that she's a free woman when doing the judging, until such time as she's collared whereupon she is "transformed" (by means not stated) into a slave.  Evidently that is a meaningful distinction for reasons I do not understand. 
This in itself is a ongoing debate even for those that call themselves Goreans. From the point of (when a slave is a slave..is a slave a slave at all unless owned or are they a slave because they feel and know that is what they are..all the way down to what "constitutes" ownership to begin with..the Master saying yes?..the collar itself?..a brand?..physically under the same roof? ...Not much unlike any discussion anywhere else in alternative dynamics that ensue Sir, and matters not a damn bit really unless it happens to be something to agree with or don't, and then only matters to you.

quote:

But if that distinction is meaningful, then how is it that a Gorean Master would consent to a girl begging for his collar, if she was not yet a slave (ie: he desires a slave but is consenting to collar a free woman)?
Because she has expressed that she wishes to be a slave. It is up to the Master she has asked or begged this from to make it so or not make it so. If he says no..then she's not a slave but still a free woman wanting to be a slave, and would gather to say she will move on until she finds another Master to ask/beg until she is granted this.

While it might seem unfathomable ..it none the less is one of those area's that differs from I guess what mainstream BDSM thinks.

Master and I personally go with a slave is a slave if she/he feels that is what they are, and this is what prompts them to seek a owner to allow them to now live it instead of just be it. This is not to say though that doesn't understand and recognize the black white difference that is present for some people when it comes to when is a slave a slave, and can live with either or thought process.

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin



_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 9:56:06 AM   
Rover


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quote:


as I have never heard or read of such a thing in BDSM. 


quote:


Am not sure what BDSM just like Gorean has anything to do with being requirements for Master/slave. Perhaps you can enlighten me on that aspect.


I wasn't the one that brought that to the conversation.  You were:

quote:


This isn't a Gorean issue. It's just how some view what a M/s dynamic should be.

 
Unless you meant to say that Goreans are the ones who have this view of what an M/s dynamic "should" (ummm... who says what anyone else's relationship "should" be?  Isn't that the "one true way"?), but they don't consider it a Gorean issue.  However, that would not make much sense.





quote:


For the sake of argument, let's accept that she's a free woman when doing the judging, until such time as she's collared whereupon she is "transformed" (by means not stated) into a slave.  Evidently that is a meaningful distinction for reasons I do not understand. 


quote:


This in itself is a ongoing debate even for those that call themselves Goreans. From the point of (when a slave is a slave..is a slave a slave at all unless owned or are they a slave because they feel and know that is what they are..all the way down to what "constitutes" ownership to begin with..the Master saying yes?..the collar itself?..a brand?..physically under the same roof? ...Not much unlike any discussion anywhere else in alternative dynamics that ensue Sir, and matters not a damn bit really unless it happens to be something to agree with or don't, and then only matters to you.


The only thing that matters to me, personally, is to gain a greater understanding of the theory and to decide for myself whether it makes any sense or not.  Then I can have an informed opinion.  Seems that Goreans are undergoing the same process, so no one should find my inquiry and conversation the least bit unsettling.






quote:


But if that distinction is meaningful, then how is it that a Gorean Master would consent to a girl begging for his collar, if she was not yet a slave (ie: he desires a slave but is consenting to collar a free woman)?


quote:


Because she has expressed that she wishes to be a slave. It is up to the Master she has asked or begged this from to make it so or not make it so. If he says no..then she's not a slave but still a free woman wanting to be a slave, and would gather to say she will move on until she finds another Master to ask/beg until she is granted this.


Seriously, I'm having difficulty making sense of this.  She's a free woman who judges a potential Master as "worthy".  He doesn't want a free woman he wants a slave, but she has expressed her wishes to become a slave so when he collars her he's actually not collaring a free woman, he's collaring a slave.  But if he declines her offer to be his slave, she reverts to free woman again.
 
I'm not being facetious... this seems like an exceptionally fluid state of being that is, at best, wholly inconsistent.  It seems rather contrived in order to fit a preconceived theory, rather than being the basis upon which the theory is constructed.  That is a meaningful distinction.

quote:


While it might seem unfathomable ..it none the less is one of those area's that differs from I guess what mainstream BDSM thinks.


As noted earlier, this is evidently something that Goreans discuss but do not consider inherently Gorean (they consider it inherent to M/s).  Again, that's inconsistent if it's relegated exclusively, or nearly so, to the Gorean community.

quote:


Master and I personally go with a slave is a slave if she/he feels that is what they are, and this is what prompts them to seek a owner to allow them to now live it instead of just be it. This is not to say though that doesn't understand and recognize the black white difference that is present for some people when it comes to when is a slave a slave, and can live with either or thought process.


That is a theory that makes logical sense, and one that I can comprehend.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 11:46:47 AM   
starshineowned


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From: Texas
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quote:

I wasn't the one that brought that to the conversation.  You were:
Ermm..no Sir actually you were when you stated specifically: as I have never heard or read of such a thing in BDSM.  This to me was a indication that you were saying it "must" only be a Gorean thing because you've never experienced within your dealings of BDSM.

My further question: Of what has prompted you to think that these views of how a M/s dynamic should be are somehow associated with or in requirement of either BDSM or Gor to begin with?

My response to this view Not being a Gorean issue simply meant that..those that call themselves Goreans are Not the only one's that view what a slave is or issue's of worthiness regarding who, when, where but simply persons views out there who don't call themselves Gorean or BDSM but just M/s. 
It was based on your initial statement of: Let's say that two people (in this case, a Gorean slave and Master since that's what I'm trying to understand)
 
Well Wishes
 
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin
 
 

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 12/10/2006 11:51:32 AM >


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(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 11:51:46 AM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

quote:

I wasn't the one that brought that to the conversation.  You were:
Ermm..no Sir actually you were when you stated specifically: as I have never heard or read of such a thing in BDSM. 

My response to this view Not being a Gorean issue simply meant that..those that call themselves Goreans are Not the only one's that view what a slave is or issue's of worthiness regarding who, when, where but simply persons views out there who don't call themselves Gorean or BDSM but just M/s. 
It was based on your initial statement of: Let's say that two people (in this case, a Gorean slave and Master since that's what I'm trying to understand)
 
Well Wishes
 
starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin
 
 



In order to avoid yet another convoluted and completely extraneous side track to the questions at hand (and which remain unanswered), I will gleefully stipulate that I (unwittingly) brought the topic to this conversation.  Accordingly, I shall sufficiently punish myself by watching the Bills game this afternoon.
 
John

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Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 11:54:32 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
Sounds like a good idea Sir because the information is plainly there as you asked. One can only lead a horse to the water but can't make them drink.


Missed this part: :)
quote:


As noted earlier, this is evidently something that Goreans discuss but do not consider inherently Gorean (they consider it inherent to M/s).  Again, that's inconsistent if it's relegated exclusively, or nearly so, to the Gorean community.
Not everyone is agreeable on any one thing in any community Sir. Why would you expect it any different for those that call themselves Gorean? Seems to me you are looking for steadfast rules from them when there aren't any anywhere else. When get right down to it..it probably is just a M/s thing but since they call themselves Gorean..it is part of the package. If someone calls themselves BDSM then it's part of that package. If they are like Master and I and just use M/s, it's part of that package.

Enjoy the day Sir

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 12/10/2006 12:09:03 PM >


_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 12:02:02 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Sounds like a good idea Sir because the information is plainly there as you asked. One can only lead a horse to the water but can't make them drink.

Enjoy the day Sir

Well Wishes

starshine
Happy slave of Master Delvin


How perfectly trite.  I shall hope for more from Bull.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 12:04:30 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
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quote:

How perfectly trite.  I shall hope for more from Bull.


I think you'll have better luck and more enjoyment watching the Bills game.  Sorry.




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(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Showing you are a worthy Master - 12/10/2006 12:35:39 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

How perfectly trite.  I shall hope for more from Bull.


I think you'll have better luck and more enjoyment watching the Bills game.  Sorry.





*LOL*  You're probably right, Katy.  But have you seen the Bills play this year?  It's down right punishing to watch.
 
Given the explanation thus far (and to be fair, Bull hasn't had an opportunity to elaborate), I sense a distinction revolving around the collar itself.  In BDSM a collar is a representation, a symbol, devoid of any inherent "powers".   Whereas (insofar as I understand the explanation thus far) the Gorean collar is imbued with the ability to transform a free woman into a slave. 
 
That does, however, lead to another series of questions as to whether the power in a Gorean relationship resides in the collar or the Master, and whether Gor includes a certain amount of "mysticism" (I must confess ignorance on the subject) in which the collar has magical qualities.  Many folks in BDSM also weave mysticism into their lifestyle.
 
John

_____________________________

"Man's mind stretched to a new idea never goes back to its original dimensions."

Sri da Avabhas

(in reply to KatyLied)
Profile   Post #: 80
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