RE: going too far

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: going too far

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: going too far

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 11:55:26 AM

Posts: 50
Joined: 12/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

I have both dominated and been dominated so I have experience on both sides. For those of us who do believe in aftercare, we value the importance of everything being forgiven and not abandoning or being abandoned when in an extreme state of emotional vulnerability. To my credit, this isn't one-sided. I provide the same aftercare when dominating that I expect to receive when being dominated. I have experienced being abandoned and the resentment that resulted destroyed the relationship. But that doesn't mean everyone reacts this way. Like I have said several times, everyone is different.

That's fine, and I respect your opinions on the matter. Obviously, due to context, our experiences differ (as well as our definitions -- of "aftercare", "abandonment", and other things). Neither of us is the holder of the One True Way, as you seem to point out.

_____________________________

"Guidance is internal." -- NASA Countdown

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

RE: going too far - 1/4/2007 7:58:59 PM

Posts: 169
Joined: 1/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Anyone is POTENTIALLY abusive.

What a blanket statement! I will speak for myself and many other men and tell you that I have never been, nor will I ever be, abusive. Just won't happen.

Perhaps this is your experience, and if it is I'm truly sorry for you, but this is just so wrong I can't let it go by. Your experiences don't determine reality for others.

In fact, it really insults the entire male gender. I know abuse occurs, but my father never abused my mother, I've never abused anyone or anything, and it is so much against my (and most men's) nature that it is really a slanderous statement.

Sheesh.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: going too far - 1/4/2007 8:03:49 PM

Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: erebus

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Anyone is POTENTIALLY abusive.

What a blanket statement! I will speak for myself and many other men and tell you that I have never been, nor will I ever be, abusive. Just won't happen.

Perhaps this is your experience, and if it is I'm truly sorry for you, but this is just so wrong I can't let it go by. Your experiences don't determine reality for others.

In fact, it really insults the entire male gender. I know abuse occurs, but my father never abused my mother, I've never abused anyone or anything, and it is so much against my (and most men's) nature that it is really a slanderous statement.

Sheesh.

I have to question if perhaps you are reading a different dictionary definition of the word POTENTIAL?

You do notice that this is what she said?

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to erebus)

RE: going too far - 1/4/2007 8:29:30 PM

Posts: 169
Joined: 1/15/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Anyone is POTENTIALLY abusive.

I have to question if perhaps you are reading a different dictionary definition of the word POTENTIAL?

You do notice that this is what she said?

Yeah, I'm fully aware of the meaning of the word 'potential'. I still stand by my feeling that Albatross was dissing an entire gender.

I will tell you with great confidence that I am not 'potentially' an abuser.

I'm not saying I don't lose my temper. I'm not saying I wouldn't protect my family with whatever means are at hand. I'm not saying I am all rainbows and puppydogs.

What I will tell you is that I'm incapable of abusing a person, and I think most everyone, male or female, is not even 'potentially' an abuser. This involves physical maltreatment, and in commonly accepted terms these days, abuse means someone who beats up someone, without their consent, causing physical pain and harm. It is, by definition, non-consensual.

The activities we all engage in (more or less) involve consent. Either party has the right to terminate any and all activities at any time. That's why one has a 'safeword' or other means to indicate there needs to be an immediate cessation of activities.

(in reply to Tikkiee)

RE: going too far - 1/4/2007 9:35:26 PM

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

FR

I cannot imagine having that situation arise in my life. If it did I would not hesitate to call the cops if I was in danger of being damaged in my mind (not that a threat to call the cops would help someone that is in my mind being victimized, who is to say the top will let you call?). I am not here on planet earth to be damaged by someone on a whim. I do not see my submissive nature an invitation to do that to me.

I do not submit to people that do not respect safewords, open communication, me crying my eyes out and screaming "stop" or whatever other means I have to communicate distress during play. To me "damage" would be something leading to impairment that could possibly be permanent, such as binding me too tightly, inability to breath, or something breaking. It would devastate me if I attempted to stop some sort of play because I was fearful of something wrong with me just to have it ignored.

quote:

As well, a "safe word" often carries with it an expectation of what will happen when the word is said- usually that the scene stops completely.

Well not for us, yellow means something needs to be checked, not stopped. I find these words better than complaining that I cannot feel my hands, or my foot is hurting, or something of that nature. I often complain during scenes about how badly it hurts

. It is part of my kink...and I do not want him to stop everytime I complain about it hurting either... so direct communication could be confusing for us.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: going too far - 1/4/2007 11:25:17 PM

Posts: 275
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline

wow
lets say that there is no safe word and this is not the early stages of the relationship and nothing like this has happened before.
lets suppose that He has been stressed out by work and family duties for a while and it just starts comming out.
does the slave have the right, either legally or lifestyle-wise, too inform Him that she will involve outside sources if He does not stop when she truely fears damage?

_____________________________

378-828-272

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: going too far - 1/4/2007 11:49:55 PM

Posts: 275
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline

she is more experianced than He, by quite a few years, although He is older.
T/they have known each other for almost 3 years and He has owned her for 2.
T/they have never had a safe word.
in the beginning aftercare was minimal, but at the time of the incident, it was top-notch.
in the entire relationship, this is the only occurence. it never happened before and hasnt happened since.
was it maybe the fact that she told Him she would call the cops?
or was it because she was so distressed that she would say something like that?

_____________________________

378-828-272

(in reply to TemptingNviceSub)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 12:04:59 AM

Posts: 275
Joined: 2/17/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Distress does not equal revoking consent.

I am glad you said this. I have been in distress before while in Master's usage. He put me there intentionally as part of a learning process. I did not want to be there, but did not ask him to stop, either. He kept me there until he deemed it necessary to pull me out.

The result was phenomenal, and about 6 months later something happened in my life that was absolutely more than I could bear (having nothing to do with my Master at the time) - or so I thought. When I thought I would crumble, I drew upon that time of distress and realized my incredible strength at going through it....and not only did I not crumble but I faced what was happening dead-on.

In some relationship dynamics, the Master really does know what the slave needs, more than she does.

As for the OP, I'm not sure why simply communicating with her Master wasn't listed as an option. There is a lot of room for speculation in your hypothetical. Just how hard were the blows? I receive blows that I think are too hard but that are not damaging at all - I'm just a pain wimp. If I think I am actually in danger, my reaction to him changes in that I shriek and panic (like once when I thought my ankle was breaking). If going into a "scene" with him I am afraid of something, he will absolutely know that fear before he starts on me.

However, in my dynamic, I do not have the option of stopping a session. I do have the option of communicating to him during the session however, and he decides from there. If it got to the point where I considered calling the police on him and/or threatened to, my CM name would probably have to change to "unownedgirlie."

communicating was listed as an option. she asked if she should tough it out and discuss it with Him later.
lets say the blows brought blood and that He chased her around the room hitting her with an implement anywhere He could reach. her head, arms, shoulders, legs, and face.
lets say that He was so intent that He didnt appear to hear her screaming at Him to stop until she said the "c" word.

_____________________________

378-828-272

(in reply to ownedgirlie)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 7:18:11 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: erebus
Yeah, I'm fully aware of the meaning of the word 'potential'. I still stand by my feeling that Albatross was dissing an entire gender.

How can I be dissing a gender when I said ANYONE is potentially abusive?

Anyone would thus include all genders.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to erebus)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 7:24:56 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

Like I said in my first reply, calling out for the cops is an extreme, specially given the good record they established so far.

But if the situation itself became extreme, then it can be the right decision to make. However, I’d likely be very cynical if it was someone in a chat room making this discussion- chat room subs have quite a way of turning their doms into monsters when it suits their purpose.

The issue has nothing to do with what he does to her, unless it’s been discuss previously as things he won’t do. The scene you describe could in fact be the hottest time a girls ever had in some cases.

The issue is her feeling afraid and that things are out of control and beyond a reasonable risk. If she’s been screaming “Stop, I’m scared, this isn’t ok.” And he ignored her, specially if this wasn’t an agreed upon force type scene, then obviously the next step needs to be taken.

I personally wouldn’t go to calling the cops, because cops make things so complicated and take so much time and if this was the first incident ever in a few years relationship, I wouldn’t go to that step. But I could understand if someone who felt less capable, or extremely scared might take that step at that time.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 9:06:30 AM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: erebus

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Anyone is POTENTIALLY abusive.

What a blanket statement! I will speak for myself and many other men and tell you that I have never been, nor will I ever be, abusive. Just won't happen.

Perhaps this is your experience, and if it is I'm truly sorry for you, but this is just so wrong I can't let it go by. Your experiences don't determine reality for others.

In fact, it really insults the entire male gender. I know abuse occurs, but my father never abused my mother, I've never abused anyone or anything, and it is so much against my (and most men's) nature that it is really a slanderous statement.

Sheesh.

Sheesh... talk about defensiveness closing down the brain.....

Yes anyone has the potential to be abusive.

What removes that potential is the choices people make..... Choices of morality etc etc etc.

All you had to do is make a few choices different and wonder bar you could of been abusive.

Same thing... but a different outcome

We are all potentially able to Kill someone. But, it is the choices and our situation that will remove that potentiality from us. Some men refuse to kill... but throw them in a war... or in situation where their loved one is going to be raped and murdered... and surprizing how they find it in them... Kill or be Killed.

Saying we have the potential is not saying WE WILL DO IT. It just means we need to consider our choices carefully.. for our choices do lead us down paths that have certain consequences. I will not kill... I become a cop in L.A. mmmmmmmm me thinks the potential of it happen has just gone up..

Defensivemids are closed minds.... closed minds.. are just stupid people.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to erebus)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 9:20:00 AM

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

LA, now you are saying you are dissing the entire human race? How dare you! Why it is an insult to all peoplekind! What's next, the entire animal kingdom? And plants, I'll bet you got a thing against plants, too, don't you? Geez the nerve of some people......

(in reply to KnightofMists)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 9:23:21 AM

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDominic

LA, now you are saying you are dissing the entire human race? How dare you! Why it is an insult to all peoplekind! What's next, the entire animal kingdom? And plants, I'll bet you got a thing against plants, too, don't you? Geez the nerve of some people......

You know it's really just the mitochondria that I got a real problem with...them and their seperate DNA...gets me all riled up!

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to SirDominic)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 9:26:56 AM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
For those of us who do believe in aftercare, we value the importance of everything being forgiven and not abandoning or being abandoned when in an extreme state of emotional vulnerability.

To my credit, this isn't one-sided. I provide the same aftercare when dominating that I expect to receive when being dominated. I have experienced being abandoned and the resentment that resulted destroyed the relationship. But that doesn't mean everyone reacts this way. Like I have said several times, everyone is different.

Once again you speak "WE" in a universal sense and your Universal Statement is a bunch of CRAP.

I suppose there are those that "do believe in aftercare" and that they "value the importance of everything being forgiven and not abandoning or being abandoned when in an extreme state of emotional vulnerability"

Frankly... I believe in after care... BUT I do not have aftercare because I "Value the importance of being forgiven... etc etc." Frankly that is just FUCKED UP.

I don't do what I do and need to or want to be forgiven for doing it afterwards. Hell if someone is motivated to have aftercare becuase in part they seek to be forgiven for what they done or assure that the person is not abandoning etc.... Then I have to ask... WHY THE HELL YOU DOING IT???

When I play with my partners... I don't need or want forgiven... what I get is THANKS and APPRECIATION! I gave them an intense gratifing experience... even though they might of screamed their heads off.

When I play with my partners... there is no worry or fear of abandoment or resentment.... what I get is Empowerment and Security in us being a strong connection.

Hell if you have to worry about forgiveness, abandonment and resentment from the play... Well something is definitely wrong in paradise..... someone is going to loose an eye in that sitaution.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 9:29:27 AM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MLskajira

even tell Him she will involve the police if He does not?

IF she wants to involve the police... she needs to get out of the relationship...

IF she tells me she wants to call the police.. it's a threat... not a safeword... She can pack her bags now and get out.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to MLskajira)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 9:48:54 AM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kalira

. The times that it has been so intense that I have been brought to tears; we always talk about it after-wards. Master truly does not like seeing the tears on my face.

I would never threaten to use the police in a situation where I thought that Master had gone too far.

I find the tears arousing... and I have been known to giggle too

yes... it's a threat to use the police... which reflects.... something very seriously wrong with the relationship... not just the incident.

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to Kalira)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 9:55:56 AM

Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherBentOne

The first time a Sadist goes too far,

With the people I Play with.....

The first time I go to far.... Someone dies

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to LeatherBentOne)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 11:38:46 AM

Posts: 1736
Joined: 11/27/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MLskajira

wow
lets say that there is no safe word and this is not the early stages of the relationship and nothing like this has happened before.
lets suppose that He has been stressed out by work and family duties for a while and it just starts comming out.
does the slave have the right, either legally or lifestyle-wise, too inform Him that she will involve outside sources if He does not stop when she truely fears damage?

    I think this and the next 2 posts got a bit lost in the... scuffle. I too am wondering what final control the slave has in a situation such as this one being described.
    Personally I have never needed safewords or anything like that. I don't scene with someone I don't know, that is my safety net. Knowing that I can say "No." if it becomes dangerous is paramount to me, I would not submit otherwise. That is simply me, and the way that I work.
    That is why I am following this thread, it deals with something that isn't a part of my world and I enjoy learning.
    It's just a shame that so much gets lost when people begin to respond to each other & ignoring the main OP.

*stamped 100% natural, 100% IMO

(in reply to MLskajira)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 12:07:42 PM

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cjenny

quote:

ORIGINAL: MLskajira

wow
lets say that there is no safe word and this is not the early stages of the relationship and nothing like this has happened before.
lets suppose that He has been stressed out by work and family duties for a while and it just starts comming out.
does the slave have the right, either legally or lifestyle-wise, too inform Him that she will involve outside sources if He does not stop when she truely fears damage?

   I think this and the next 2 posts got a bit lost in the... scuffle. I too am wondering what final control the slave has in a situation such as this one being described.
   Personally I have never needed safewords or anything like that. I don't scene with someone I don't know, that is my safety net. Knowing that I can say "No." if it becomes dangerous is paramount to me, I would not submit otherwise. That is simply me, and the way that I work.
   That is why I am following this thread, it deals with something that isn't a part of my world and I enjoy learning.
   It's just a shame that so much gets lost when people begin to respond to each other & ignoring the main OP.

*stamped 100% natural, 100% IMO

that's just it...a slave has no "final control", that is something that comes with the territory of being property. generally, a slave has no right to say "no" or "stop" to the one who owns them. and certainly no right to inform outside authorities. the details are still a little skimpy for me to really comment much, but from what has been explained of the situation, if it were me, i would simply continue to do my best to be a good, obedient slave, providing a place of comfort and solace and release from the stresses of his life, and hope that "this too, will pass."

(in reply to cjenny)

RE: going too far - 1/5/2007 12:23:07 PM

Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MLskajira

wow
lets say that there is no safe word and this is not the early stages of the relationship and nothing like this has happened before.
lets suppose that He has been stressed out by work and family duties for a while and it just starts comming out.
does the slave have the right, either legally or lifestyle-wise, too inform Him that she will involve outside sources if He does not stop when she truely fears damage?

I would say that if he is takeing his stress out on his slave like that that he may not be in controll enough and that could be a problem.. but thats my opinion

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.

-Rodney Atkins-

(in reply to MLskajira)

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: going too far

Page: << < prev 3 4 [5] 6 7 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2024

Terms of Service

0.125