RE: going too far

Join Our Community

Collarchat.com

Home Login Search

RE: going too far

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: going too far

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: going too far - 1/2/2007 6:01:53 PM

ImpGrrl

Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
Tears during punishment aren't always a bad thing, providing the Master holds her tight afterwords till she calms down so she doesn't think he doesn't care for her.

Not all s-types need, or even want, this.

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Profile

Post #: 61

RE: going too far - 1/2/2007 10:59:11 PM

Adrenochrome

Posts: 50
Joined: 12/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

I think that this scenario, like 99% of D/s and BDSM, depends entirely on the context of the relationship. There's no real hard and fast rule, aside from the law of the land (which, as a tangent, I would point out vary wildly from country to country in terms of what can be considered legal play), as to what constitutes abuse or damage.

In my relationship with my slave, for instance, she knows and trusts that if I give her more than she can take in a punishment, it will always be for good reason. Furthermore, she knows and trusts that I would simply never cause actual harm to my favorite piece of property, and would always restrict myself to short-term pain. As a result, she knows that I will occasionally push her boundaries to drive a lesson home, but won't ever forget that my duty is to protect her. So, she suffers when I deem it proper, and I will not stop at a simple "no", but that she will nevertheless be safe with me.

However, she and I have an extensive history together. For partners just starting out, I do think that safe words are a good idea. Still and all, there is always the risk that safe words won't be listened to by the Dominant in the scene, which is where the ability to call the police afterwards comes in handy. For a longer running relationship... Well, if the Master isn't committed to protecting his property, then I would question his ability, intelligence, and ethics, personally. In the end, I think that simple communication combined with not leaping in recklessly, is the key. On a long enough timeline, those elements of a relationship will allow boundaries to be pushed, punishments given out, lessons learned, and safety adhered to.

_____________________________

"Guidance is internal." -- NASA Countdown

(in reply to ImpGrrl)

Profile

Post #: 62

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 1:16:09 AM

mons

Posts: 2400
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline

greeting

you should not let a session began. that is as plain as it get, never place yourself in a psotion of being hurt i do not care if he is you master your dom your husband no no no. if he is hitting you hard enough for you to question what he is doing then i see alread you are seeing the signs of abuse, leave and do not go into another sesssion they are to feel good not hurt so bad you want to leave and i think you should have you no wait he knows he is hitting to hard there is no talking to him leave if you can watch yourself even a master can be a woman beater the worst kind of man i was beaten badly please do what you need fast

mons i wish you so be ok

(in reply to MLskajira)

Profile

Post #: 63

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 4:52:21 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ImpGrrl

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl
If the sub or slave is in distress and the master doesn't stop, doesn't that mean consentual has now become nonconsentual?

No.

If the slave withdraws consent and the owner doesn't stop, *then* it is nonconsensual.

But just being in distress doesn't necessarily signal nonconsent.

Defiant,

I think that perhaps what you are not getting here is that some people don't consider this "play". Some people carefully consider the decision to submit and do it with the confidence of knowing they have used their intellect and intuition to discern that the person to whom they are submitting can handle the responsibility.
Once they do it, it's done. They don't negotiate before physical interaction. They've already given blanket consent.
I have found myself "in distress", wondering how far he is going to take it, wishing it would be over, thinking I can't take any more, wondering what Ive signed up for...and used those states as doorways to something really wonderful in terms of self-discovery. It's part of the journey for a lot of us to inhabit "distress".

As for some of the other assumptions you have made in this thread...
Some people don't engage in S/m under the SSC blanket.
Some people simply do not use safewords. Any "Master" you meet could be "potentially abusive".
Some people don't hold and snuggle and get fed tea with milk (although it sure is nice when it happens) after they engage physically because it isnt just about the physical "scene"...have you ever considered that when the physical part is over, the "scene" may not be?

I understand it is your tendency to superimpose your wants, desires and experiences regarding BDSM on other people's relationships, but it's a big big world out there and there are people doing things differently than you do them, even as we speak.

I think we should be careful about determining for other people what constitutes revoke of consent and abuse.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to ImpGrrl)

Profile

Post #: 64

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 8:38:28 AM

daddysprop247

Posts: 1712
Joined: 6/24/2005
From: DC Metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MLskajira

if a girl finds herself in a situation with her Master where the blows are becomming too hard, does she have the right to stop the session and even tell Him she will involve the police if He does not?
not just because she does not feel like haveing a session, but because she is afraid He will do actual damage if not checked.
or should she wait it out and talk to Him afterwards?

it depends. if the girl in question is an unowned submissive, AND there are safewords or something of that nature established in the relationship, then she has the right to stop the session and tell her Master exactly how she feels. explain that she's scared and that things are going past her level of comfort. involving the police may be taking it a bit far.
if the girl in question is a slave, then imo she has no right to stop or control anything, tho if it's permitted by her Master, she may have the right to share her feelings and concerns with him. but if she is a slave she should already understand that life for a slave is not all peaches and cream, and sometimes we must suffer for the One who owns us.

(in reply to MLskajira)

Profile

Post #: 65

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 9:05:58 AM

Kalira

Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

So some women actually agree to no safeword the first time they scene with a guy before getting to know him? Sounds pretty dangerous to me.

The first time I met Master face to face, it was with the understanding that there would be NO safewords. That was a risk I was willing to take with him after getting to know him before hand. I went into that first meeting with no expectations of how it would go; I would like to say though that Master was extremely gentle with me that first time

edited because I can not spell

< Message edited by Kalira -- 1/3/2007 9:08:10 AM >

_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Profile

Post #: 66

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 9:08:17 AM

SirDominic

Posts: 711
Joined: 11/22/2006
Status: offline

From all the varied opinions offered thus far, I have come to a few conclusions:

1. You must know what it is you want. If you don't, you need to educate yourself before you jump into the lifestyle. For beginners it is probably more important to know what you DON'T want. Particularly for a sub, if you don't even have enough knowledge to know what you might want, ask the Dom(me) what they want. That will give you a good idea of whether you are ready for that person's style or not.

2. You must communicate with your partner to make sure you both want the same things, whether it be anything from light bondage to edge play with no limits. As long as the two of you are on the same page, problems should be minimal.

3. You need to have enough trust built up between the two of you to know (as best as one can know) that you will both play by the rules agreed upon. Also have a reasonable belief that the person you are talking to are who they say they are, particularly as far as level of experience goes. If you have any gut feeling that something is not right, do not play with that person at that time. Trust your instincts.

4. Don't be in too much of a hurry to jump in over your head. This lifestyle can be a life long journey of growing self-awareness, so take your time. As in so much of life, try to focus on the fact that it is the journey that's important, not the destination.

Sir Dominic

(in reply to justheather)

Profile

Post #: 67

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 9:34:00 AM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

I'm not trying to impose my wants on anyone. I started a thread awhile back and asked how many subs were soothed after punishment. Most said their doms calmed them and they would be devistated if rejected during this time of need.. I've seen similar responses in other threads about aftercare. I've also seen plenty of threads about safety where people offered advice and among the most common advice offered was to always have a safeword........at least during the first few meetings. Not everyone can offer blind trust to a stranger. Some of us believe it is safer for trust to develop over time.The forum is about opinions. And not everyone disagrees with mine.........or yours.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 1/3/2007 9:37:59 AM >

(in reply to justheather)

Profile

Post #: 68

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 9:35:58 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

You have a huge track record for making assumptions and imposing your ideas about the way things are on other people.
I didnt say nobody needs/wants/gets aftercare, I said some people don't.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Profile

Post #: 69

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 9:48:38 AM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

Imposing ideas? I thought it was called people sharing different opinions. While I have found that many share my feelings on these 2 issues, obviously there are a few who don't. How boring would life be if everyone agreed on everything? As for track records.........the fact that you bring mine up makes me wonder about yours. Kind of reminds me of the girls that liked to call me a slut in high school when they had more partners within a month than I had been with at all.

(in reply to justheather)

Profile

Post #: 70

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 9:56:23 AM

LordVelvet

Posts: 311
Joined: 4/25/2006
Status: offline

I have used safewords in the past, I have also not used them. I am also guilty of not doing a good job of aftercare. I am human and have learned from My mistakes. I think alot of it has to do with what the sub/bottom/slave is comfortable with. Personally I don't want someone freaking out in the middle so I try to make sure all questions are asked up front. I have missed some questions, been lied too, it happens but over all it is worth every moment. Just My opinion.

(in reply to justheather)

Profile

Post #: 71

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 10:10:45 AM

justheather

Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

...the fact that you bring mine up makes me wonder about yours. Kind of reminds me of the girls that liked to call me a slut in high school when they had more partners within a month than I had been with at all.

No clue what you are talking about.

My point was that you have a tendency to assume things about posts and respond from that POV.
I think if you peruse the threads to which you have posted, you will find references to this by many posters other than myself.
My initial comments to you were to invite you to view things from a different perspective.
If you can't handle that, that's cool. Now I know. I wont invite you to think outside your own experience again.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Profile

Post #: 72

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 10:34:07 AM

Tikkiee

Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline

~~ General reply ~~

I have scened with tops before who claim that I am dangerous

. One refuses to even touch me at all anymore because of this. I like the pain so much that it's usually the top who stops before I am ready for it to end...don't figure huh?

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to justheather)

Profile

Post #: 73

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 10:36:04 AM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

On previous posts, I responded to the information provided at that time by the OP. Often times an OP will provide limited information and anyone giving advice has to do some guessing.. If the OP provides additional info at a later time and the advice turns out to be wrong........oh well. I was only responding to the info given at that time. I'm sure I'm not the only one offering advice that this has happened to. As far as thinking outside the box, everyone has strong values on certain things but are open to suggestion on others. For example, I used to think that anyone who was bisexual couldn't be monogamous because they had to have lovers of both sexes. I found out that was a popular misconception and not true at all. Just because I have set values in a few areas doesn't mean I'm not open to suggestion in most others. I'm sure you have certain set values as well, even if they might be in different areas than mine. Everyone is different.

(in reply to justheather)

Profile

Post #: 74

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 10:47:03 AM

Adrenochrome

Posts: 50
Joined: 12/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL=defiantbadgirl

While I have found that many share my feelings on these 2 issues, obviously there are a few who don't.

I think it's rather more than "a few".

< Message edited by Adrenochrome -- 1/3/2007 10:49:50 AM >

_____________________________

"Guidance is internal." -- NASA Countdown

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Profile

Post #: 75

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 10:52:36 AM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

Not according to the thread I posted or other threads I have read on aftercare and safety. But who's in the majority and who's in the minority really makes no difference because everyone is unique in their own way.

(in reply to Adrenochrome)

Profile

Post #: 76

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 10:59:09 AM

Adrenochrome

Posts: 50
Joined: 12/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Not according to the thread I posted or other threads I have read on aftercare and safety. But who's in the majority and who's in the minority really makes no difference because everyone is unique in their own way.

Since I never saw those threads, they don't matter to me in the slightest. I was referring to the percentages in the Really Real World fetish population. I don't particularly care if either one is bigger (I tend to think they're about equal, actually). It's just that I don't like to see the attitude I nominally adopt marginalized by seeing it referred to as something only "a few" hold.

_____________________________

"Guidance is internal." -- NASA Countdown

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Profile

Post #: 77

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 11:31:15 AM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

I have both dominated and been dominated so I have experience on both sides. For those of us who do believe in aftercare, we value the importance of everything being forgiven and not abandoning or being abandoned when in an extreme state of emotional vulnerability. To my credit, this isn't one-sided. I provide the same aftercare when dominating that I expect to receive when being dominated. I have experienced being abandoned and the resentment that resulted destroyed the relationship. But that doesn't mean everyone reacts this way. Like I have said several times, everyone is different.

(in reply to Adrenochrome)

Profile

Post #: 78

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 11:40:29 AM

Tikkiee

Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline

~~ fast reply ~~

I can see another good thread has come to the inevitable conclusion of some fighting over who's right and wrong again. Such a shame too; this thread had the makings of being one that could have been beneficial to those who are newcomers.

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)

Profile

Post #: 79

RE: going too far - 1/3/2007 11:49:17 AM

defiantbadgirl

Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline

What's right and wrong always depends on the parties involved. If blows become too hard, I think the sub does have a right to end the session. Pain that is too intense can cause unconsiousness. This can be dangerous if the sub is gagged as nausea often follows.

(in reply to Tikkiee)

Profile

Post #: 80