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RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:13:44 AM

Posts: 5672
Joined: 12/19/2005
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Thanks for listening, people. I appreciate it. I must have "SUCKER" written on my back (I feel like I do).This will not happen to me again. I am (for real) taking a nap now. I have so much appreciated the support. The only reason I posted about it was because I was:

1) Depressed about it, and needed to talk
2) Think it might help someone else, maybe
And not in that order, necessarily, either.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/8/2007 7:14:13 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:19:10 AM

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Joined: 7/9/2006
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HI Susan
Ive been reading this post for ages and nearly didnt post becasue wellyou dont know me and anything i could say to you has pretty much been said. I did just want to say though that I really think you have done the right thing.
I always try to follow my instincts. They have never been wrong , the two times i did ignor them I wished soon after i had listened to what my gut was telling me.
I'm sorry this relationship didnt work out, its so disapointing!! I do think though that sometimes when shit happens you have to remeber that something good is usually on its way. And hopefully if he does read this and he isnt genuine he at least knows how you feel about it andif he is genuine then he can see that he is risking losing the chance of any kind of relationship if he doesnt change his tactics!!!

You should treat yourself to something a nice day to yourself on the date you should of been going to see him and turn any negative feelings about it all into the energy to get out there strong and proud of yourself for caring enough about yourself to be safe.

_____________________________

Proud mistress

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:24:41 AM

onestandingstill

Posts: 1335
Joined: 8/3/2006
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Oh Susan,
How indeed tragic and dissapointing this must be for you.
Of course you know the right answer hon.
It's a huge red flag on about 5 different levels and YOU KNOW THIS AND FEEL IT IN YOUR GUT.

No way in hell IMO would I think you should go.
If he can't trust you enough to send a copy of his license to you how can you trust him with all of you in his car or alone with him??
The only answer, painful as we both feel it is is you can not.
Hugs, pats on the head, and prayers Susan. If you want to talk I'm here.
Please don't go if not for you, for the people (me included) that love you,
suzanne

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:33:48 AM

Posts: 244
Joined: 8/31/2006
Status: offline

HI, I have skipped around to read vasrious posts on this topic but not all, so this may have already been suggested.

I flew once to meet someone and what we agreed on was that he sent me all his vital information in a sealed envelope and TRUSTED ME not to 'peek'. I gave that sealed envelope to a good trusted frined who also happened to be a lawyer and was my "safecall". The friend had all my flight info and hotel etc. The envelope contained real name, address, copy of drivers liscense, car make and model and liscense plate etc. There was a lot of trust involved he trusted me not to look and I trusted him to really put the info all in the envelope. Since I wasnt supposed to look I wasnt going to know for sure. Anyway - it all turned out good and when I got home I did open the envelope, by then I knew enough about him to be dangerous if that was my intent, and he had put all his info in plus how to contact his brother - in the wierd event something ahd happened to us both like an accident.

You simply cannot go and no dominant would ask you to. He has not sent you the information - he does not deserve to meet you. Chalk up time and money spent to lessons learned. It is far better to be home and safe that to risk anything. If he does not trust you enough to tell you who he is ... he is either married or has plans that we do not even want to think about! Please, let this one go!

_____________________________

He held out His hand and said "Step into the abyss with me."

and I did.

(in reply to onestandingstill)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:36:23 AM

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I hate to say this but I don't think it's a Dom thing I think it's a man thing.

lateralist,
You need to add another adjective or two to "man thing" - cheating, lying, fraud; come to mind off the top of my head.

But, in general, there is enough blame to spread around; disassociated from gender or any specific orientation. First, none of this would ever be possible without one of the parties being an "enabler". Someone has to be gullible enough or desperate enough to allow someone to get away with weak reasons to maintain secrecy. Men are more likely to be perpetrators of "fore-ploy"; representing anything in order to get laid. Generically, assuming "men are slime" until proved otherwise, represents reality versus undo skepticism. I'm not representing any form of "self loathing" I'm just calling 'um as I see 'um.

The bigger problem that this situation illustrates is the "investment". The money is immaterial. Call it the price of education. More difficult to overcome and reestablish is the investment of emotions. It is the basis of my "two week" rule. Not to play, but to meet. This situation caused me to add another corollary. If you plan to meet down the road and are a long distance away from the person, the two week rule should be in play to confirm identity. If you anticipate never going beyond the internet relationship stage there's no problem with playing under a "secret identity" as long as you don't mind the spouse snoring in the background while on web-cam. Start to invest emotions, and you should require more, or expect this as a likely result.

"Stalkers", business image, neighborhood watch, or employment as a spy for the government shouldn't be accepted as excuses. Before we met, beth not only had my personal information but could visit my corporate website and see me pictured in a suit standing outside my building with the mayor. Do so many people believe the fantasy image conveyed by stories written? In reality, there are no available mysterious, dark, strangers of royal blood who'll pick you up at the airport in a black windowed limo, who will blindfold you, have you strip naked, and kneel facing him while you drive an hour to their remote, forest shaded castle. I have a slave and not seeking another - thank you!

We've written to Susan directly and she knows this isn't an attack on her. We recommended she go to her destination and party for the time she planned away. But based upon what we're reading here, I'd recommend she change hotels so she's not going where he expects her to be.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/8/2007 7:37:21 AM >

(in reply to lateralist1)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:36:32 AM

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Joined: 5/26/2004
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~ Fast Reply ~

Susan,

I really enjoy your posts, though I seldom respond to them. I'm glad you've made your decision. I know it's not fun to get all ready for a meet and then have it fall through like this. BTDT got the closet full of those t-shirts. Sooner or later someone will come along who will appreciate you for who you are and he'll be honorable with integrity and definitely worth waiting for.

Just my thoughts....

(in reply to onestandingstill)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:47:56 AM

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Joined: 3/7/2006
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quote:

I got two pages of reasons I shouldn't find it necessary - none of which made all that much sense to me, nor did any fulfill my request for the information.

Two pages of excuses why he can’t give you basic information? Sounds like he’s really good at BS! Lemme guess; the email was sprinkled with ‘a real submissive would……………..or wouldn’t…………..’ as well as suggesting that you are so wrong for not trusting him.
Can you tell I’ve been there, done that? (got the t-shirt, cut the t-shirt up in ‘ittle bitty pieces and burned them!) I found it helpful, once I could step away from the emotional roller-coaster, to review everything from the beginning; all the emails, all the conversations. When I was brutally honest with myself I could see where alarm bells had been ringing almost from the start. It’s a tough lesson, but one worth learning.
My opinion is that it doesn’t matter whether he’s a good guy or a bad guy or just a clueless wonder; the bottom line is he is not who or what you thought he was and I’m glad you called a halt.
(hands you a big box of tissues and offers you a hug)

< Message edited by catize -- 3/8/2007 7:53:51 AM >

_____________________________

"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:53:22 AM

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Susan...It seems that drama follows you everywhere you go. That might be an indication of repeated mistakes or poor judgement on you part. I don't know you so I can't really say. I do know that you've been on the boards now with three major dramas within the past year...all were detrimental to your safety. You may need to step back and really take a hard look at how you communicate with people. I know you just started a thread on house rules and to be honest, to me thats an indication of part of the problem. You come across to me as if you don't really talk to these men that you consider. It seems to me that you are more concerned with protocol and being the perfect submissive that you can't relax enoough to speak to these people like people and not Dominants. You learn a lot more from someone when you forget the rules and just talk. I think that you've probably known for a while that there were all kinds of red flags with this guy, but you chose to ignore them until they couldn't be ignored any longer. I can understand that desire, but desire will never make someone fit into what you are searching for. Listen and trust yourself, be confident in yourself, control yourself and men will not be able to take advantage of you. You made the right decision. Learn from it so you don't repeat the pattern. This is supposed to be enjoyable.

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 7:59:55 AM

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Joined: 2/23/2007
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"As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.".....so, I jumped; guess what.....that not so wide chasm.......was wider than it appeared. Boy; did that fall hurt; hurt really bad.
Susan, what relationship ???? you talked on the phone, emailed ????? No matter how long, that does not a relationship make.
I got involved once, same as you; difference being.....I paid her way, all the way, to meet, just meet. Airline ticket, not just 250 bucks either; rather 1500. Paid all expenses, food, bought new clothes, for HER, to make Her feel comfortible. I gave Her every assurances of Her safety; phone numbers, police, everything to allow Her to make the decision.
The guy always pays, if he has class and style.
This creep you think you had a relationship with has no class and certainly no style.
Forget it, get on with your life. Er.....unless you enjoy the heart pain......then wallow in it, like you are doing now.

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:00:24 AM

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Joined: 3/17/2006
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Susan,

If you're flying to Orlando, let me know. I'll give you all my information and you can rent your own car if you like. And that's the only car we will use. Then if you get scared or upset with me. You can run off easily enough in your own car. Yes I'll be stranded, but I'm sure I know enough people or ways to get home safe enough.

I also agree with the "outting" as being a BS excuse. Being a teacher at one time, I could have easily lost my job. I did follow the rule of not giving my phone number out to anyone until I met them in person. Wanted to know who exactly I was giving my number too. I also did not give them any personal information either. But, I never lied to them. Nor did I meet them any place that was not public. And they never did travel such a great distance just to meet me.

As a teacher, you can loose your job based on improper behavior. What is legal for others to do can get you fired in a drop of a hat as a teacher. Dancing on top of a table drunk was the example given by the school board. I hate to say it but most professionals might just loose business, be embarrassed, or whatever if "outed". But generally they would not loose their livelihood in the process. Thus I can sympathize with him for not wanting to give out that information to just anybody.

But you are not just anybody. You are at the stage of meeting live and in person. Just to let you know usually I budged eventually on the phone number if we got to the level of meeting. And I would have budged on the rest if it was asked for. After all the safety and concerns of a potential submissive to me should take paramont over any issues I may have, especially at the meeting stage.

If he has any concerns as to your truthfulness about buying the ticket. Then fax him a copy of it. Along with a copy of your driver's license. Under the condition though that he faxes you a copy of his driver's license in return afterwards prior to you getting on the plane. He can fax it to you at the airport if he wishes. Just bring a stamped envelope with you and mail it to a friend, prior to getting on the plane. Hopefully the friend that you will be calling as a safety precaution. If he doesn't give it to you then you turn around and walk away...don't get on the plane.

As a Dom, it is our duty to make you feel safe and secure. It is also our duty to address your concerns. If we cannot do any of these then the person is either dishonest, untrustworthy, a player, or in the very least not looking out for your best interest and just looking out for their own. And if you don't have somebody looking out for your best interest then why should you submit to them? They are unworthy of your submission.

Some people say submission is a gift. I generally agree, a gift that must be taken sometimes verses given away. But with all possessions that are owned. There comes a responsibility to use them properly, correctly, and appropriately. If you abuse that responsibility then you do not deserve to own that what you have. Thus you deserve to loose it for not taking care of it.

For example if you own a car. You might burn the tires, gun the engine, speed, swerve in and out of traffic, take the truck up in the mountains and go over terrain that makes the truck hoo and haw, or whatever. But you also, wash it, put gas in it, tune it up, change the oil, and basically take care of it. Because if you don't, then that car or truck will crap out on you and become a big piece of junk. Afterwards, you won't be able to do all the abusive things you do to it and be able to use it like it is meant to be used and abused.

I would say most people on here would agree with what I just said, especially most submissives, that like to be used appropriately to their tastes, whatever they may be. But all would agree that if you don't use them appropriately then you might never use them again. That is the responsibility of the Dominant to use them appropriately, but in that use also comes the responsibility to care for their needs also as they care for ours.

Be safe and play safe...

(in reply to canupleaseme)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:08:58 AM

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To Aileen68.........YOU are a Jewel.

(in reply to ferryman777)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:27:46 AM

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
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Kiss the $250.00 goodbye and chalk it up to a learning experience. This situation sounds potentially dangerous to me and there's no way in hell I would go meet someone who had lied to me and refused to give me information.

To me it sounds like the person is a player and never really expected to meet you, so now they are in panic mode.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:31:42 AM

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Thanks everyone. Ms. Opal, RPutnamJr, and Aileen:

There might probably be a way around the identity revealed on the phone or internet issue. I'd have never have thought to ask him to put it in an envelope and seal it, and have me give it to someone else. I might be willing to do that now (it's a fairly good idea). However, it would have been better if he'd have brought it up himself (he perhaps didn't think of it).

I am still kind of ticked he almost made fun of me fro wanting it, and also called me "litigious." If he wants pics of my bruises and to talk to the friend I called in a panic the night I got beat up, he is welcome to that. I am understanding why he'd be frustrated if he's had a female stalker - but that kind of seems like a minor temper tantrum, to me, over something that should obviously be a concern for my welfare - the fact he belittled that concern, knowing I had also at least as good a reason as he did, to be skeptical, did not much to increase my faith in him.

I may be wrong, he may be the greatest thing since sliced bread. but I'd really have to consider this carefully to say "yes" at this point. But maybe I would, I dunno (probably not).

Aileen: I can possibly see your point but - It was fun!! It was interesting for the past 9 weeks, at least I thought it was. I was completely sold, until I really stateted thinking about what was missing, as far as information here.I asked for this information, btw, about 3 weeks into our intial e-mailing and phoning - he just kept playing it cool and putting me off. I very was excited, and looking forward to the trip. LA and I were even planning to go to a play party in Austin next Saturday night and everything. I was that sold. I am way too nice. I am not stupid (I am in Mensa) I am just too nice. I am also usually expecting the best until someone proves I can't expect it anymore.

I didn't ask him for "house rules" - in fact I thought the request was rather off, and it freaked me out a little that he had us in a 24-7 when we hadn't even met yet. I mentiioned in passing. I thought some Dominants seemed to make made spur-of-the-moment rules, without having gotten to know their submissive and asked what he thought of that (a legit question, btw). I also let him know I wanted to take things slow and get to know eachother - maybe he thought that was a way to get to know me, I dunno (if so I can see where there may have been a possible mis-understanding. I guess).

I was with my ex-Dominant for over a year, before his temper got hold of him one night; his behavior was a total and compete anomaly (except for a dysfucntional family history. Hell - I've got one, too - a lot less severe than his was, maybe - but - isn't everyone's family-of-origin slightly dysfunctional? I don't knwo anyone who comes from a 100% perfect "Leave it to Beaver family" - here at CM or anywhere else. Think it couldn't happen to you? Think again. It happens to a lot of people, I am guessing. But you could be right.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/8/2007 8:59:01 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to ferryman777)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:37:43 AM

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

quote:

Think it couldn't happen to you? Think again.

Perhaps next time don't be so eager. Make him come halfway with expenses, if you don't get real information, bow out, don't wait around for him to give it to you. I think he was probably playing a game from the onset. It is easy to get carried away in the moment. I noticed the dom in question no longer has a profile.

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:44:07 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
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FR

Another point......Looking at the dom's angle......He's had some bad experiences with females stalking him, he has a profession where it's important that he not risk being *outed* and you have had a dom that you pressed charges against. He knows that he barely knows you and isn't taking any chances. All good sense. He, like you, only knows what YOU tell him. YOU know you're trustworthy but HE doesn't know that, yet. For all he knows, you could be as batty as hell and shout *BAD MAN!!!!!* when you have bruises. I'm not suggesting for a moment that's the case........but if you hear it through his ears, filtered through his baggage......

I don't think he's a two-headed monster, I just think that both of you are trying to facilitate something that neither of you are prepared for.
At this point in time he simply isn't willing to trust you and I don't really blame him anymore than I would you, for not trusting him.

If you were in the same city, you could have met for a coffee , without exchanging much more than cell-phone numbers and gradually moved forward etc. Just two people meeting up to say,* Hi, this is me*.....no lingerie, no downcast eyes, no vibrator , no loaded situation. The fact that he's a flight away needn't change that situation.

My guess is that this is too much, too soon, for two people that have been *burned*.

agirl

(in reply to ferryman777)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:46:56 AM

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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agirl: You are right - it was jut a bad idea all around. One of us has to be willing to let go here, and given my situation this past year, I am not going to do that. If he's not either, it's just not going to work. So - his choice. I've already made mine. Unless he comes up with some spectacular solution here, and now there is a whole lot of "you don't trust me you demanding bitch" vibe going on, too. Not sure I wanna deal with that all week. This is the beginning, after all.Something could go right, but it would have to go really, really right at this point.

I was a little too eager. I was. Hey - if he took his profile down, that's not my fault, I could have mentioned his name here, but I didn't want to - because I am not a Monster Bitch. Very few folks knew who it was (2 maybe. Tops). And hopefully not many will. Still, I thought this experience was weird enough (but possibly not uncommon enough) that somebody new might learn something from it. Plus, I was depressed about it and wanted to talk to someone (Guess I could have e-mailed someone privately and just left it there). Now I feel guilty (I do. Really). I feel bad if he's gone. I do. I will not mention his name. Ever.

I was happy it seemed to be going so well. I ignored what was a bad sign (several times), and paid only attention to the good stuff. I didn't want to be cynical, and I am not going to let this ruin things for me. But next time, I am going to be a lot less eager, and take things a lot more slowly, Also I may start looking locally more. I am tired of Nebrsaka weather and that was part of the reason I was looking all over, but maybe re-think that. I am just not sure now. I guess enough said all around about this, maybe.
Thanks for at least letting me vent a little.

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/8/2007 9:14:11 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:49:08 AM

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Katy is right, if the guy is so frigging paranoid, get his lazy ass to come to you. It would be "safer" for him after all.

However, as some have said, stop meeting assholes and look in the mirror and try and figure out YOUR role in picking them.

Why not get involved in the local scene. Even if it sucks, you will learn a bit, get a chance to see others interact, get a bit of experience on what you do and don't want, etc.

Buy both of Dossie Easton's books on S&M, The Bottoming and The Topping Book. They are great and are the best out there on D/s, at least until I write mine.

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 8:54:07 AM

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
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quote:

Hey - if he took his profile down, that's not my fault, I could have mentioned his name here, but I didn't want to - because I am not a Monster Bitch. Very few folks knew who it was (2 maybe. Tops).

You did mention him by screen name in a past thread.

Just edited to add that I wasn't saying it was your fault he took down his profile, I think it may speak to how genuine he was to begin with.

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 3/8/2007 8:59:38 AM >

_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to SusanofO)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 9:02:47 AM

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Joined: 12/19/2005
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Maybe (yes I did,but only once). I just wanted to vent. Now I feel like I shoud have just shut up. I don't necessarily wantto hurt anyoe - I was feeling confused and also very diappointed.
I do appreciate the support, because this threw me. I maybe needed a day or two in private to process this. But - maybe some other Dominants and submissives weill read it and maybe prevent a similar occurrence who knows?

- Susan

< Message edited by SusanofO -- 3/8/2007 9:03:44 AM >

_____________________________

"Hope is the thing with feathers,
That perches in the soul,
And sings the tune without the words,
And never stops at all". - Emily Dickinson

(in reply to KatyLied)

RE: Please help me - Re: Non-disclosure; understandable... - 3/8/2007 9:11:45 AM

Posts: 58
Joined: 1/8/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MsOpal

I flew once to meet someone and what we agreed on was that he sent me all his vital information in a sealed envelope and TRUSTED ME not to 'peek'. I gave that sealed envelope to a good trusted frined who also happened to be a lawyer and was my "safecall". The friend had all my flight info and hotel etc. The envelope contained real name, address, copy of drivers liscense, car make and model and liscense plate etc. There was a lot of trust involved he trusted me not to look and I trusted him to really put the info all in the envelope.

With all due respect, (this shows how jaded I am) If this person was going to really be a bad person. What is to say he left empty papers inside? Then what ?

Breathe

(in reply to MsOpal)

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