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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/7/2006 11:16:13 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper

However, I could use terms like spearchucker, tar baby, junglebunny, cotton picker or spade... if I a had a black slave who desired it.

i find those words far more offensive and objectionable and derogatory. i'd imagine most people that you were referring to using them would have a bit to say about them as well. just how i was raised, i reckon.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/7/2006 11:19:08 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Misstoyou

quote:

ORIGINAL: SadistDaddy

... As time passed she fell more and more into the role and would beg not to be sent to "the showers" when she was naughty. It was horrible, I loved it. To me this shows most anyone can come to enjoy race play as well as the pretend versions of unsavory real world associations.

The sub being German isn't quite the same thing, is it, anymore than my calling a Southern boy "my nigga". Now, if she were a Jewish sub who would beg not to be sent to "the showers"...

the whole things cries to me to refer people to the interviews on the holocaust museum website, to hear first hand accounts of the atrocities. i couldn't be a part to anything of this nature. complete and total dealbreaker is even implied racism.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/7/2006 11:32:24 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

the whole things cries to me to refer people to the interviews on the holocaust museum website, to hear first hand accounts of the atrocities. i couldn't be a part to anything of this nature. complete and total dealbreaker is even implied racism.

Yes, I understand. A friend of mine just returned from Poland to visit the holocaust prison where he lost family members. The pictures and his whole journey were astonishingly heartbreaking.

And yet...I have an African-American submissive, and while I, personally, haven't and won't use the "N-word" or those other colorful racist terms previously mentioned in this thread, his color is referenced quite a lot when we're together, spontaneously, and more often than not from him (though from me as well, something this politically-correct Northern Californian would never have imagined.)

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/7/2006 11:55:47 PM

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I have no problem with it...never have....never will....I call my slaves what ever I want...if it is something they really like, ya damn skippy I'll do it again...if it's something they really hate, ya damn skippy I'll do it again, if it's something that I enjoy, if it isn't, no problem, I'll try to not use it again....but my choice is the one it'll be.........if you like being called something that he isn't useing, maybe it's because he's not really sure it's that big of a deal for you...and with the way the world has gone PC crazy, you may need to restate your desire.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/8/2006 10:33:34 AM

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That is the reason that I do not have Black or minority slaves. The "n" word is a VERY harsh, and the hurt and pain behind that word goes very deep. Whatever turns you on is cool, but I would be concerned that the master would use that word outside of a scene.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/8/2006 4:02:36 PM

ZenrageTheKeeper

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quote:

ORIGINAL: girl4you2

edited:
quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper

However, I could use terms like spearchucker, tar baby, junglebunny, cotton picker or spade... if I a had a black slave who desired it.

i find those words far more offensive and objectionable and derogatory. i'd imagine most people that you were referring to using them would have a bit to say about them as well. just how i was raised, i reckon.

You don't remember Spearchucker Jones from the first season of MASH? The others I could use probably because of that word association skit on SNL between Chevy Chase and Richard Pryor.

Chevy Chase: N*****.
Richard Pryor: DEAD Honky.

Beyond that, Yosemite Sam would always call bugs bunny a cotton pickin' whatever. The Tar baby was used in Song of the South, which was a movie shown to me when I was growing up - before I knew of racial stereotypes. Junglebunny I just relate to the whole blaxploitation era of the 1970's when the term "jungle fever" was running rampant.

I myself, am a dumb polack/cheap schweitzer mongrel and I'll laugh hard whenever I hear a dumb polack joke - my personal fav is the one about the airplane crash in the cemetary. To me, they're just words folks. I don't use them in regular public or even private conversation. If I had a black submissive in my life, I wouldn't even use them in the initial stages of the relationship.

< Message edited by ZenrageTheKeeper -- 1/8/2006 4:25:21 PM >

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/8/2006 5:43:43 PM

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You have got to be kidding!! You are trying to resurrect something that should remain in the garbage.

Being raised in Canada never used the word in all my years, and would certianly never tolerated anyone who did. Having travelled quite a bit to the southern states and listed to older people talk, it wasnt uncommon to hear it used and it was so offensive. One of my first girlfriends was african canadian and my best friend male also, so u can imagine how offensive i find your remark.

There is real life and play time my friend, lets be real. I am sure you would be out marching if you heard the word in any other context.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/12/2006 12:10:54 PM

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Ok I've never been in the possition where it is likely that I'll own an Afro-American slave. However there is always the chance I may well do so or at least own a slave from a different race or culture. I'd take some convincing to even think about using racial humiliation as this is something I've fought against for years in the general society. The thought of doing so I find abhorant but for those who dd use it as part of their D/s, M/s relationship , I can accept it, for it is their choice.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/12/2006 1:47:56 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wetrope
There is real life and play time my friend, lets be real. I am sure you would be out marching if you heard the word in any other context.

But that's the whole point, isn't it? This IS play time. And the catharsis is precisely in that transgressiveness...

There is no fundamental difference between calling a woman a "slut" and an African-American a "nigger". They're both verbal humiliation plain and simple -- offensive in a real life context but potentially a turn-on in a play context.

As a member of the minority race, I find it kinda cute when white doms hesitate using racial humiliation. But my frank reaction is: Hey, I'M the one who's saying it's okay. It turns ME on. Overcome whatever hang-ups you might have and humiliate me, damn it!

Now that's not to say I wouldn't be angry if a dom did it without my consent.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/13/2006 12:19:06 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FillMyVoid

There is no fundamental difference between calling a woman a "slut" and an African-American a "nigger". They're both verbal humiliation plain and simple -- offensive in a real life context but potentially a turn-on in a play context.

Ummm.. unless you are a prostitute.. or you really sleep around like a "real slut" then there is a HUGE fundemental difference. i'm thinking that someone who was really a prostitute at one point in their life... would probably not like being called a "slut" because it would cut into her... i know i had a friend, who as a teenager (we were teens together).. she went through a period where she slept with lots of guys in school.. and it hurt her really bad to hear people call her a "slut"..

i have only minimual sexual experience.. i actually like being called a slut... but that is because there is NOT part of me that really believes that.. there isn't any truth in it.

i don't know if you're Fat.. but i'm curious about how many fat people like to be called "Disgusting Pigs".. or "Flabby Fat Asses" or... "Free Willy" or.. "Shamu"...?? or something like that?

Because that's a closer example that maybe some non-minorities can understand. If you really ARE fat... does it turn you on to have someone call you a Lard Ass? or a Hog? Or a Elephant Slut...? If you're someone who struggles with weight daily... someone who's been put down in restaurant.. not seated, perhaps... or someone who's had people in real life look down at them for being overweight... if you're someone who's been mistreated in some store because of your weight... when that happens in real life.. doesn't that hurt..? ...in the bedroom could you really get turned on by being falled "Fatty" names?

Maybe i'll start a new topic about this...

i'm black and white. White mother, black father. i was raised around all white people and identify most strongly with "New England White Culture". i have difficulty relating to Black people who were not "around a lot of White people" growing up. But... just the same... i had issues with my skin colour growing up.. and still occasionally do now... and it hurts. and i can't imagine putting away those "true heart huring things" while in the bedroom.....

i think i would worry that my partner (on some level) really looked down on black people... but.. maybe i'm too insecure.
i suppose people who like humiliation of any sort are "more secure" than i am... because i'd crumple under too much of that!...

<weakling me>
-ragdoll

(in reply to FillMyVoid)

RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/13/2006 8:10:54 AM

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quote:

i suppose people who like humiliation of any sort are "more secure" than i am... because i'd crumple under too much of that!...

But for that matter, wouldn't any of us "crumple" under much humiliation or "abuse" of whatever sort we engaged in during play without much trust in and aftercare from our Tops/Doms/Masters...i mean, if Master did nothing but bludgeon me all day long and never bothered to check in to make sure i was ok...i'd be an absolute wreck and would fervently believe He cared not at all for my well-being.

If you're just gonna call me "slut, slut, slut," "nigger, nigger, nigger," and not also tend to me emotionally, to be sure i'm ok...well, that's just verbal abuse (without the quotation marks), now isn't it?

(in reply to ragdoll)

RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/13/2006 11:47:50 PM

Arpig

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I grew up overseas, in countries where whites were a miniscule (and often very resented) minority, and I have come out of it not giving a rat's ass what so-called race a person is, other than human. As for racial humiliation for play, well I don't have a problem with it, except that I think i would be embarassed and nervous about doing so, mostly because I doubt i could really do it convincingly.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/14/2006 12:55:55 AM

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After reading many of the post here, I thought I had missed something, so I went back to the OP.....nope, didn't miss anything......some of ya'll are way off base here.....she IS a black slave...she WANTS to be called something....It doesn't matter what YOU think of the word, or what it might mean to someone else, or any of the other things mentioned in many of the post.....SHE WANTS IT.....so, in my opinion, she has the right to get it.....ginger, as in anything that is between you and your Master, if it doesn't cause you lasting damage or kill you...go for it...and anyone else can go suck an egg...it's not up to them....but then...that is just my opinion WEG

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/14/2006 2:32:50 AM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirDarkside357

After reading many of the post here, I thought I had missed something, so I went back to the OP.....nope, didn't miss anything......some of ya'll are way off base here.....she IS a black slave...she WANTS to be called something....It doesn't matter what YOU think of the word........

well the original poster did asks "questions" too. She wasn't just writing out her fantasy and not asking for input. She directly asked if other black people who were submissive also enjoyed "racial play"... she specificially asked if she ought to "ask her Master" to call her racial things again even though he seemed uncomfortable with it....

so there were lots of questions.
Of course it's fine that she likes what she likes... everyone should be allowed to like what they like... as long as they aren't hurting themself or other people (in non-consensual ways) while they're doing it. ~ but.. i mean.. the original poster did ask for input... and i'm not sure what's wrong with discussion? i mean... with presenting both sides of the issue? afterall, her Master seems to be on the side of "not so comfortable with racial humiliation" too.

(in reply to SirDarkside357)

RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/14/2006 4:36:18 PM

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quote:

i have only minimual sexual experience.. i actually like being called a slut... but that is because there is NOT part of me that really believes that.. there isn't any truth in it.

i think i would worry that my partner (on some level) really looked down on black people... but.. maybe i'm too insecure. i suppose people who like humiliation of any sort are "more secure" than i am... because i'd crumple under too much of that!...

I believe you've touched the core of this argument. As the slogan SSC goes, it has to be consensual. The bottom has to *want* it. And the majority of us who *want* to be called 'slut' or 'nigger' find that to be cathartic because even though the remark might be wounding, it's also a huge turn on.

Verbal humiliation in a sexual context always contains a paradox. The term 'slut' is both humiliating AND empowering because we're aware that in the sexual arena, it's a desired state.

Race also contains this paradox. When an African-American, Asian or Hispanic sub wants to hear racial slurs, that individual desires to be the the object of degradation (in the historical context of domination by the white race) AND allure (as object of exotic desire). Again, it's simultaneously humiliating AND empowering.

When you say you'll "crumble under too much of that", you're focusing only on the negative aspect -- the humiliation. You don't feel the empowerment. On the other hand, those who are turned on by racial slurs enjoy being viewed as the exotic 'Other'. In the words of African-American feminist scholar bell hooks, here ethnicity becomes "a spice, a seasoning that can liven up the dull dish that is mainstream white culture" (you can call this 'secure' if you want, although I don't think that's always the case).

I think the same goes for white masters who just can't get themselves to engage in racial humiliation. They're only able to focus on the negativity, the humiliation aspect of racism, because that's essentially what race means for them. At the end, everything is solipsism...

< Message edited by FillMyVoid -- 1/14/2006 4:47:25 PM >

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/14/2006 5:21:54 PM

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quote:

The sub being German isn't quite the same thing, is it, anymore than my calling a Southern boy "my nigga". Now, if she were a Jewish sub who would beg not to be sent to "the showers"...

The topic is racial humiliation, not black racial humilation via "nigger." It doesn't have to be the same as the original example, it's another example. It can be more than words and racial insults, its a role that can be worn and lived in. She is proud of her German ancestry so being addressed as a Jew is humiliating to her. Tha'ts how she can be humiliated using the pride of her own race against her. Racial humiliation can also be roleplayed. A black sub could be the "house slave" to the white master who has the power to make her do anything. Has anyone tried a roleplay like this?

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/14/2006 5:33:45 PM

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quote:

the whole things cries to me to refer people to the interviews on the holocaust museum website, to hear first hand accounts of the atrocities. i couldn't be a part to anything of this nature. complete and total dealbreaker is even implied racism.

They could also watch Schindler's List. Steven Spielberg also recorded interviews with holocaust survivors. Try Survivors of the Shoah Visual History Foundation www.vhf.org

I'd also recommend Roots and the study of how the black slaves were often conditioned before leaving their native lands. One tactic was to have them walk around "the tree of fortgetfulness". Since the natives had a belief in spiritual forces, they were told it was a magic tree that would make them forget their past and their religion.

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 1/14/2006 6:31:39 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FillMyVoid

When you say you'll "crumble under too much of that", you're focusing only on the negative aspect -- the humiliation. You don't feel the empowerment. On the other hand, those who are turned on by racial slurs enjoy being viewed as the exotic 'Other'. In the words of African-American feminist scholar bell hooks, here ethnicity becomes "a spice, a seasoning that can liven up the dull dish that is mainstream white culture" (you can call this 'secure' if you want, although I don't think that's always the case).

I think the same goes for white masters who just can't get themselves to engage in racial humiliation. They're only able to focus on the negativity, the humiliation aspect of racism, because that's essentially what race means for them. At the end, everything is solipsism...

i hafta admit... that i don't understand how it is empowering to be degraded... and.. the feminist scholar you quote... said things nicely... being "exotic" and "desired" is different (in my head anyway) than being degraded and looked down upon.

It's like seeing a beautiful emerald gem... and admiring it for it's sparkling enchanting exotic qualities...

that's different than seeing a mound of shit on the ground and cursing it's filthy existence...

i dunno.. that's not the best example.. but someone admiring my darker skin is different than someone calling me a dirty word about it.

It kinda brings me to the other board i created Fat Cow? - Verbal Humiliation (rehashed) ~ there... most to understand being degraded about a personal body attribute isn't fun... or empowering... ~~ i don't know if you were overweight.. but would you find it empowering to have someone insult you for being out of shape? Lazy? Lacking any sort of interest in yourseld because you're a lazy fatass slob?

i mean.. someone doing that.. is different than someone admiring your curves.. or appreciating the round and soft lines of your body.....

i dunno...... i see being humiliated about race.. the same as being humiliated about being fat. or... at least similar.

but.. again... i'm not a very secure person (and struggle with other things too)........ so.. maybe i'm doomed never to "get it".
i just know i'd be horrified and heartbroken if i were dating someone who wanted to call me a "nigger" or "fat". Even if it was a black person or a fat person saying it... i still wouldn't like it. ~but.. anyways.. i should probably bow out of this topic.. i feel like i'm not contributing anything "positive" or "helpful" anymore.. and instead i'm probably getting to a place where i'm sort of "pouting" and trying to get people to "think like me"... and obviously being in a mind-frame like that isn't where i should be if i'm going to be participating in a discussion.

(in reply to FillMyVoid)

RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 5/20/2006 8:56:48 PM

AtlantisKing111

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As a white Master with a black slave girl I certainly have the OPPORTUNITY to indulge in race play. However neither I nor my slave DESIRE to.

For myself, using racial slurs or pretending I'm a plantation owner simply goes against my upbringing. I have no desire to associate myself with such things. My slave girl says that she does not desire such things because it goes against her morals. she feels that plantation scenes and racial slurs evoke too many bad visions of nonconsentual mistreatment that went on during those times.

Both of us feel however that there is nothing wrong with people using plantation scenes and/or racial slurs if they both are done in a consentual relationship.

We do get stares occasionally from some people in public (especially black men, which we find rather humorous).

< Message edited by AtlantisKing111 -- 5/20/2006 8:58:56 PM >

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RE: are You uncomfortable using racial humiliation? - 5/21/2006 1:02:50 AM

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You can ask, but it will be his decision what to do. I wouldn't feel comfortable saying it, but if it doesn't bother either of you, I see no problem.

< Message edited by Estring -- 5/21/2006 1:05:59 AM >

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