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RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/5/2007 6:05:16 PM

Posts: 3
Joined: 10/6/2005
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Sir, i am a 24/7 slave to my Master. It is incomprehensible to me the thought of ever refusing things requested by me of my Master. i too am a professional woman, in a Senior Management role, and assume a strong persona in the workplace, but upon entering O/our home, my collar goes on and i am who i was born to be, a slave. i take care of the house, the laundry, grocery shopping, cooking, etc - as that makes my Master's life easier and more comfortable and i love doing that for Him and for U/us.

Perhaps your sub/fiancee did not understand what it meant to be a sub 24/7? Or perhaps as she has come to learn more, she realizes it is not a lifestyle she wishes to embrace full time. Maybe she is overwhelmed by being submissive 24/7 - my humble opinion is that you are either born to it or you are not. Or perhaps she is finding out that she is not truly a submissive but perhaps a Dominant. The key to any successful relationship is communication and it sounds as if sitting down and talking, letting her know that during the discussion she can discuss anything with you without any punishments ensuing is overdue. If she truly is submissive, which Sir, i have to say i have my doubts, then as others here have suggested, breaking tasks, etc. into small workable numbers and adding to them may be the best route to go.

At times i have acted out, and after i have been punished Master has sat me down to discuss my behavior and where it came from (for normally i am a well behaved slave). These discussions are always worthwhile and most times W/we find that my misbehavior stems from either not being used enough/hard enough/being overtired/over extending myself to others. my biggest challenge is to now be able to recognize the problem ahead of time so that i don't feel the sting of Master's crop. But the key to Master's handling of this is his consistency. Punishment, unearth the issue, address the issue and find a solution. Consistency has been very important in O/our relationship.

i hope my words help Sir.

slave juliana, property of Master D.

(in reply to ThunderRoad)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/5/2007 6:29:15 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure
I read those as a fairly definitive assessments. They don't even remotely sound like suggestions with room for other possibilities. We're talking armchair psychology here. These statements may in fact turn out to be correct with regard to the OP's situation, but when it comes to fucking around with other peoples lives, I expect a bit more care from those who purport themselves to be almighty dominants doling out advice.

There are some assumptions coming from your direction. You are assuming that just because the posts are not followed by some sort of disclaimer or apology for the opinion given that the responder is claiming some almighty stance. That's pretty harsh. It's a deliberate choice to see the glass as half full. In short, it's politically correct BS. It has nothing to do with the safety of others or their relationships. You seem to have no problem with what was said but want to change how it was said. Wanting others to be PC is all about control and attention. I'm sorry I gave you the latter, although I did satisfy my curiosity as to the why. Thanks.

(in reply to losttreasure)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/5/2007 6:40:53 PM

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Joined: 4/11/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

quote:

ORIGINAL: losttreasure
I read those as a fairly definitive assessments. They don't even remotely sound like suggestions with room for other possibilities. We're talking armchair psychology here. These statements may in fact turn out to be correct with regard to the OP's situation, but when it comes to fucking around with other peoples lives, I expect a bit more care from those who purport themselves to be almighty dominants doling out advice.

There are some assumptions coming from your direction. You are assuming that just because the posts are not followed by some sort of disclaimer or apology for the opinion given that the responder is claiming some almighty stance. That's pretty harsh. It's a deliberate choice to see the glass as half full. In short, it's politically correct BS. It has nothing to do with the safety of others or their relationships. You seem to have no problem with what was said but want to change how it was said. Wanting others to be PC is all about control and attention. I'm sorry I gave you the latter, although I did satisfy my curiosity as to the why. Thanks.

sounds like you have a personal vendetta rather than responding to the post.

minnetar

(in reply to smilingjaguar)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/5/2007 6:41:49 PM

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Joined: 11/23/2006
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i truly do not understand the mindset of a childish, bratty, selfish sub... kind of seems to go against the whole principle of submission and looks remarkably like manipulation~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to ThunderRoad)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/5/2007 7:07:20 PM

Posts: 808
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline

Simple.

"Shit or get off the pot . . . "

Of course that may be a last resort.. but I'm sure that the other party will get the message.... (short of a whip of course)..

Rapture

P.S.
Push her out of the bed to the floor then turn over yourself and go back to sleep.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThunderRoad

This is a bit of a rant and a bit of a cry for help. Please indulge me a little.

Situation: Engaged to a sub who lives with me (wedding a year or so out). We're both professionals with full-time jobs and lives etc etc etc. Pretty straight forward.

The problem is that, dispite several conversations about what exactly she is interested in from a D/s standpoint, she seems to have no interest in it when it comes time. She's disobedient, mouthy, selfish with seeming little concern for what I want. When I point this out, it's about 50/50 she'll realize what she's doing, apologize and fall into line, or just get huffy and either stomp off or give me the silent treatment.

Welcome to married life, eh?

She states repeatedly that she wants a 24/7 D/s relationship. Not really a TPE, but something that is all the times we're together. She's strong and I admire that (it helps her professional life), but I really am not sure if she know what she wants and as a result I'm not sure I know what she wants.

I guess my quandry is this. When a stubborn bratty (in the definition of being a 4 year old) bitchy sub just plain refuses to accept a punishment or play along, what's a dom supposed to do? I'll admit I'm a little inexperienced and learning a lot of this as I go, but I really seem to be missing something.

Last night, for example, we were lying in bed and she got mouthy and I tell her to go stand in the corner and her response is "Oh fuck that and she just rolled over." At that point it was like "y'know, I just don't want an argument or to put up with this crap - I'm tired and I have an early morning". This morning, she apologized for her behavior (unprompted) but I gotta get her to pay attention to her behavior at the time.

*smashes head on wall*

Thanks for letting me vent.

< Message edited by Rapture -- 5/5/2007 7:11:41 PM >

(in reply to ThunderRoad)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/5/2007 7:15:01 PM

Posts: 875
Joined: 12/17/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: smilingjaguar

There are some assumptions coming from your direction. You are assuming that just because the posts are not followed by some sort of disclaimer or apology for the opinion given that the responder is claiming some almighty stance. That's pretty harsh. It's a deliberate choice to see the glass as half full. In short, it's politically correct BS. It has nothing to do with the safety of others or their relationships. You seem to have no problem with what was said but want to change how it was said. Wanting others to be PC is all about control and attention. I'm sorry I gave you the latter, although I did satisfy my curiosity as to the why. Thanks.

You may call it an assumption, but I call it reading comprehension. If someone writes, "the sky is blue", I don't presume their statement includes an unwritten disclaimer that it is just their opinion and that if anyone else believes it is a different color that it is just fine and dandy with them. I prefer to let people speak for themselves and I take them at their words.

They are most certainly welcome to state whatever they wish in any manner they wish. However, if I feel that their statements lack breadth and flexibility, I will exercise my right to come in behind them and add to it. There's nothing PC or attention seeking about it. If they want to make an issue out of it, I'm happy to point out why.

I'm sorry if you feel that is harsh, but that is the way it is. I'm happy to oblige your curiosity, at any rate.

_____________________________

Just because it isn't "all about me", doesn't make it "all about you".

(in reply to smilingjaguar)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/5/2007 7:25:12 PM

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Joined: 5/2/2007
Status: offline

OR...
It could be...
She is just not that into you.
She doesn't know how to tell you she wants out.
She is exhibiting passive-aggressive behavior so maybe YOU will decide to end it.

JMHO...I have a teensy bit of experience with that behavior though..

SimplyMichael,
I'd bet the farm she wouldn't be saying "fuck that" and rolling over if she were lying next to you...

(in reply to losttreasure)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/5/2007 11:29:42 PM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
i truly do not understand the mindset of a childish, bratty, selfish sub... kind of seems to go against the whole principle of submission and looks remarkably like manipulation~

In an ideal world, sure.

In the real world, we can act incredibly irrationally and against who we are. At some point you have to tell them act right or get out- I don't think this relationship is at that point yet though.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to dawntreader)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/6/2007 4:34:08 AM

Posts: 3066
Joined: 2/4/2006
From: NYS
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I'd love to hear her side. They're in bed talking and something she says annoys him so his immediate response is not to explain what he's touchy about but to order her into the corner, and this is supposed to teach her that her mind reading skills are insufficient? What I don't see or hear from the op is that he has set up any consistency, any rules that are slowly added one at a time to which he pays attention.

Instead I get the feeling he's just issuing random orders which contradict each other from day to day. Sorry that isn't domination in my book and apparently not in the fiancee's either. Maybe she isn't submitting because he's shown himself to be untrustworthy with her power, if he doesn't prove himself to be someone she can trust in controlling her then the best thing she can do is not submit.

So what shape is the op in financially? Are his bills in arrears, credit cards maxed out yet he still demands that he have sole control over finances? Is he on good terms with his family, do they still view him as a child or is he respected with them? Because if he hasn't shown himself to be a respected adult in that most difficult testing grounds, then she is wise not to let him control her relationships with her family. Does he lead from example here?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/6/2007 5:02:39 AM

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Joined: 11/23/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
i truly do not understand the mindset of a childish, bratty, selfish sub... kind of seems to go against the whole principle of submission and looks remarkably like manipulation~

In an ideal world, sure.

In the real world, we can act incredibly irrationally and against who we are. At some point you have to tell them act right or get out- I don't think this relationship is at that point yet though.

LA :-)
i see where you are coming from with your point on this.

But, and this is just my opinion and how i see and tolerate things, childish, bratty and selfish behavior does not equate with adult behavior of any kind in any realm or lifestyle ...with me. Ofcourse i know it exists - but i look at it as extremely unbecoming behavior and an external sign of inner turmoil. i did not tolerate this type of behavior with my UM and certainly don't in an adult.

Now, when i read the OP's post - it read more like his woman is trying to find her place in their dynamic ( not in a very mature way but i get the impression they are young) and wasn't what i would have considered true bratty behavior as has been discused here before in regards to manipulation but without her side and more details - hard to say. my initial reaction came from how the OP chose to title his thread.

"In an ideal world" is a subjective condition...i don't think that is the only place submission without manipulation exists - i personally know too many beautiful examples of women that exemplify the beauty of submission~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/6/2007 7:46:20 AM

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Joined: 1/7/2007
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Celeste43,

Considering how men are, for him to post asking for directions and admitting his own inexperience, that makes him seem fairly grounded to me. Not perfect, just not a complete putz.

You are right, we haven't heard her side but the dynamic he describes is fairly common, especially with inexperienced couples. Submissive has a fantasy about what control is and expects it to be just right, hard or soft at the exact time. Used to controlling with her moods and rants but desperate for someone to force her to stop. You can't really force an adult, you can lead, or leave but those are your only options. Learning how to lead a woman so unself aware is a daunting task. I failed my first one and have high hopes for this one. They don't know how to do the things they need to to nourish their partners nor do they know how to get what they need in a healthy way.

Neither are "worthy" of what they want from the other. He seems to realize that and is here seeking to become worthy, the fact that she isn't says something to me as does her behavior. Partners can and do change but they have to be ready to and they have to do the hard work themselves. I once had TOO many emotions which is probably worse than not having enough. However, I think the work I had to do to gain control of mine was easier than learning to express emotions long suppressed. They both "want" this but wanting something and doing the hard work to make it happen are two VERY different things. I WANTED my ex and threw myself into therapy going a few times a week. I am a vastly better and much more happy person because of that. Again, HE is here doing the hard work of trying to figure out what to do to make things change. She is lying around whining and pitying herself. People who do that don't change and end up losing people who while loving them know they must love themselves first and find the right partner.

I hope that in this case the person who I think is fucking up pulls their head out of their ass. If they don't someone else is going to swoop in and be very happy with a partner who they might not ever find the equal of. Sometimes there is lots of time to make these changes, sometimes there isn't. My heart ALWAYS supports the existing relationship, especially if there are children which this lucky couple doesn't have to complicate things. However, their comes a time when it is too late, which in the case of the relationship in this post seems a long way off.

(in reply to Celeste43)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/6/2007 7:48:58 AM

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Joined: 11/27/2006
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Unless a poster cites a source or includes a website I tend to automatically assume that the source is themselves. Their own opinion formed from experience or viewpoint.
The exception is when someone uses an absolute ie 'all' 'true' 'every single' etc.
If I can't figure out of it is their own thoughts, I ask.

_____________________________

*Unless I cite a source it is MO.

~ ssssh. i think i've just found freedom. ~

(in reply to dawntreader)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/6/2007 9:44:38 AM

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Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
But, and this is just my opinion and how i see and tolerate things, childish, bratty and selfish behavior does not equate with adult behavior of any kind in any realm or lifestyle ...with me.

I think we could argue on the selfish part- I know lots of doms who enjoy being selfish on occasion and it works great in their dynamic.

Childish- well there is age play

Bratty- I'm with you on that one :)

I'll admit that I've become cranky, that I've snapped, that I've fought, that I've acted completely inappropriately at times towards my partner. In fact, I know a lot of slaves who would say the exact same thing.

It's part of why he's so awesome and wonderful and why I work so hard to eliminate such episodes from my life as much as possible.

I don't think any of that takes me out of contention of being a mature responsible adult OVERALL or being capable of having a very healthy relationship with another adult.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to dawntreader)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/8/2007 2:07:28 AM

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Joined: 3/12/2007
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"At that point it was like "y'know, I just don't want an argument or to put up with this crap - I'm tired and I have an early morning".

Can I safely assume, because none of the eminently experienced CONtributors have spoken directly to this weak behavior, that their domination also whiffs of this particular fragrance ..?

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/8/2007 2:21:16 AM

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Gentle Celeste :)

Clearly spoken. I concur, my only comment is to point out that typo of yours, you misspelled "balls," his balls are in arrears, not his bills.

(in reply to Celeste43)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/8/2007 12:25:27 PM

Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
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Well, I have to say that I'm with LA on this one.
Master and I have had a 24/7 live in relationship over this last year, and I was quite new to the scene.
There were many times, especially at the beginning, but, yes, even now it happens, that I do or did not behave in the way I was expected to behave. Sometimes I would have a complete melt-down, and, really couldn't control those times. Other times, (especially at the beginning) I suppose I was testing Him, or perhaps I just wanted some attention of the dominant sort.
Perhaps it would help not to label the behavior as immature, bratty ect. (even if it is) but rather, look at it as someone looking to you for direction. It doesn't always have to be stern, maybe she's just confused.
Master always told me, I would be so much happier if I would just 'submit', and, I agreed, but, that doesn't make it easier to do.
Firmness, patience, and love, is the rx I would prescribe.
Good luck!

~Christina

(in reply to peepeegirl5)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/8/2007 12:35:36 PM

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Joined: 11/21/2006
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To the OP:

If your sub behaves like a bratty child treat her like one. Watch any supernanny programme and they will tell you ignore the misbehaviour and reward the good behaviour.

Simple terms when she is being akin to a petulant child ignore her, don't give her any dominance. When she has been submissive and well behaved give her some of the dominance that she likes.

Show me a woman that likes being ignored.

:: smiles ::

(in reply to Celeste43)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/8/2007 12:46:59 PM

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From: Kentucky
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Depends who you're with. I've been with a couple I'd rather have iggie me...

(in reply to subsfaith)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/8/2007 1:19:14 PM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subsfaith

To the OP:

If your sub behaves like a bratty child treat her like one. Watch any supernanny programme and they will tell you ignore the misbehaviour and reward the good behaviour.

Simple terms when she is being akin to a petulant child ignore her, don't give her any dominance. When she has been submissive and well behaved give her some of the dominance that she likes.

Show me a woman that likes being ignored.

:: smiles ::

Hello subsfaith. Great advice!...pull the plug!. But... you deal with an adult having 'child like' behaviour, it is not a child acting out, it is a full grown adult.

I think in general it's just a form of topping. I personnally hate this as it is a control issue. You either submit in order to be dominated or you 'dominate' to bring someone into submission. The latter is risky and you better be sure you can pull it off before doing it to an out of control submissive. It's like repairing an airplane in midair. Why do it? I think it's safer to land the plane first (stop the D/s thingie) go cool off then start again after maintenance (checking motivations, limits, rules etc).

What dismays me is the inability of some doms to take leadership and stop things before they get out of hand. It's so easy to blame the bratty unsubmissives but it still takes TWO to tango. Why do some doms find it so hard to pull the plug? Is it an ego thing? affraid not being able to restart? For the life of me I don't know. Maybe i'ts not just written in the DIY dom books? Common sense sometimes works well . RL.

(in reply to subsfaith)

RE: Dealing with childish, bratty, selfish subs - 5/8/2007 1:37:21 PM

Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Celeste43

I'd love to hear her side. They're in bed talking and something she says annoys him so his immediate response is not to explain what he's touchy about but to order her into the corner, and this is supposed to teach her that her mind reading skills are insufficient? <snip>

I don't know if this pertains to the OP or not but it sure struck a nerve with me. Thank you, Celeste. I am not sure exactly what I'm going through but this makes me feel like I'm heading in the right direction. ~pondering~

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to Celeste43)

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